Rifleman 173
New member
I'd go with a scoped M-1A rifle and .308 or 7.62 NATO match grade ammo. Why tamper with success? That's got to be one of the best rifle systems ever devised anywhere at any time.
Which .30 caliber? Then which rifle to put it in?
- Thread starter stonebl
- Start date
Not all states will let you hunt with semi-automatic rifles. And if you plan on going to an outfitter to hunt, many of them don't allow semi-autos either.
I know the place in Kansas I hunt at, the owner doesn't want semi-autos for deer hunting. But he loves my AR for coyote's
I know the place in Kansas I hunt at, the owner doesn't want semi-autos for deer hunting. But he loves my AR for coyote's
What is it for?
I know they are all made to sell, but you are buying, not selling.....
Lots of paper? The .308 will do most of what the .30-06 will do, with the lighter bullets, anyways ...... and will do it in a shorter action and barrel, for whatever that is worth. It will be cheaper to feed, and kill that paper just as dead.
Deer? At what range? Any of the above will be fine, if you are up to the shot.
Elk and Moose? I'd be fine with an '06 and heavy bullets, I think ..... the .308 does not do the heavy bullets very well (they take up too much of it's limited case capacity, I think...). Maybe the new bonded bullets would make it possible to use lighter weights ..... in which case, the .308 might work.
I think the various "Short Magnums" are going to go the way of the dodo .... too expensive to be used much, and expensive because they are not as common as more conventional cartridges like the .308 and '06 ..... economy of scale in manufacturing ..... they are spendy: in general, about 2x what the .308 and '06 run ..... The recoil is probably not as pleasant either.....
I know they are all made to sell, but you are buying, not selling.....
Lots of paper? The .308 will do most of what the .30-06 will do, with the lighter bullets, anyways ...... and will do it in a shorter action and barrel, for whatever that is worth. It will be cheaper to feed, and kill that paper just as dead.
Deer? At what range? Any of the above will be fine, if you are up to the shot.
Elk and Moose? I'd be fine with an '06 and heavy bullets, I think ..... the .308 does not do the heavy bullets very well (they take up too much of it's limited case capacity, I think...). Maybe the new bonded bullets would make it possible to use lighter weights ..... in which case, the .308 might work.
I think the various "Short Magnums" are going to go the way of the dodo .... too expensive to be used much, and expensive because they are not as common as more conventional cartridges like the .308 and '06 ..... economy of scale in manufacturing ..... they are spendy: in general, about 2x what the .308 and '06 run ..... The recoil is probably not as pleasant either.....
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Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
If you're not a handloader, go with the .308. I've been loading for the '06 since 1950 and using a 26" barrel on a rather heavy rig as my walking-hunting package. It's a different deal than the usual off-the-rack rifle of around 22" of barrel.
Given what's commonly available in barrel lengths, the.308 will work just as well as the '06, and plinking/practice ammo is commonly less expensive.
Given what's commonly available in barrel lengths, the.308 will work just as well as the '06, and plinking/practice ammo is commonly less expensive.
Oh, I forgot "the which rifle to put it in":
Most bang for the buck: A Remington 700 (or 721 for 30-06) from the 1950-60's, if in good condition. You can find them for less than $500 if you look.
Last fall, my brother picked up a 721 in .270 WIN with a perfectly serviceable 3x9 Weaver on it at Green Mountain Guns in Denver..... there was a .30-06 that needed a scope for $350 right next to it.
Most bang for the buck: A Remington 700 (or 721 for 30-06) from the 1950-60's, if in good condition. You can find them for less than $500 if you look.
Last fall, my brother picked up a 721 in .270 WIN with a perfectly serviceable 3x9 Weaver on it at Green Mountain Guns in Denver..... there was a .30-06 that needed a scope for $350 right next to it.
I'm with Jimbo on the used old model 700s. Mine from the late 70's in 06 has taken plenty of game. I picked up a used mid 80s model 700 in 06 with a classic redfield widefied for $350ish in left hand a few months ago just cause a spare is a good thing. I would mention that my old stock 700 was such a killer I didn't dare mess with it, I can mess with the newer clone.
sc928porsche
New member
You cant go wrong with the 30-06 cartridge. What little gain you might get with the WSM is really not worth the price of the ammo.
My personal favorite is the 300WM. I have found it to be very versitile with the exception of factory ammunition.
My personal favorite is the 300WM. I have found it to be very versitile with the exception of factory ammunition.
"MV of a 30-06 is around 2700 FPS with a 180 grain bullet.."
I guess you haven't run any 30-06 180 gr. ammo over a chronograph lately.
A while back I ran some Winchester Silvertips over my chronograph with rifles having 22", 24" and 26" barrels. I also ran some .308 Winchester 180 gr. Power Points over the chronograph at the same time in a 22" barrel. The 22"30-06 beat the .308 by a whole rip snorting 20 FPS. FWIW, I shot the 06 in an FN Mauser and a Remington 700 for the 22" test. The .308 did 2610 FPS and the average for the two 30-06's was 2630 FPS. From the 24" rifle the velocity was 2635 FPS but part of that small gain may be due to the rifle having a 1 in12" twist barrel rather than a standard 1 in 10". The 26" Ruger
#1 B, I have two gave 2690 FPS in one rifle and 2700 FPS from the other.
I've read on another site where someone did a similar test with one rifle, a
22", I'd have to guess, and they too barely broke 2600 FPS.
How other brands would fare under that type of test I can't say. The results post are from my rifles and can be attributed to only them. YMMV, but I'm betting if you do the test your results will be very close to mine.
Paul B.
I guess you haven't run any 30-06 180 gr. ammo over a chronograph lately.
A while back I ran some Winchester Silvertips over my chronograph with rifles having 22", 24" and 26" barrels. I also ran some .308 Winchester 180 gr. Power Points over the chronograph at the same time in a 22" barrel. The 22"30-06 beat the .308 by a whole rip snorting 20 FPS. FWIW, I shot the 06 in an FN Mauser and a Remington 700 for the 22" test. The .308 did 2610 FPS and the average for the two 30-06's was 2630 FPS. From the 24" rifle the velocity was 2635 FPS but part of that small gain may be due to the rifle having a 1 in12" twist barrel rather than a standard 1 in 10". The 26" Ruger
#1 B, I have two gave 2690 FPS in one rifle and 2700 FPS from the other.
I've read on another site where someone did a similar test with one rifle, a
22", I'd have to guess, and they too barely broke 2600 FPS.
How other brands would fare under that type of test I can't say. The results post are from my rifles and can be attributed to only them. YMMV, but I'm betting if you do the test your results will be very close to mine.
Paul B.
The .30-06 and the .308 can be loaded close enough to have less than 5% difference between the two. The .30-06 is more versatile. Cheap too with surplus ammo. The .308 is a little more spendy with surplus ammo but the short stroke is a little more efficient. I shoot both.
The Magnum give you more power and range at one heck of a price in recoil, volume, dollars and muzzle blast. So unless you are rich, don't shoot much or really need the extra range and power go with the one or the others.
The Magnum give you more power and range at one heck of a price in recoil, volume, dollars and muzzle blast. So unless you are rich, don't shoot much or really need the extra range and power go with the one or the others.
It's two different jobs.
Paper is better shot with the 6 to 6.5mm calibers using some kind of PPC case. Whitetail to moose hunting means it's not going to be setup as a heavy range precision shooter, more a lightweight mountain gun in .30-06 minimum.
It's a 20" 12 pound plus 6.5Grendel with 4x12 target scope, vs. a 7 1/2 pound 18" .30-06 with 2x7 illuminated reticle. Target sling vs carry sling. Bipod vs. none. Trick adjustable aluminum rod stock, vs. composite camo.
You certainly could do both with a used .308 Remington 700 - but the recoil will start adding up after 50 rounds on the range, and the hunting loads are a bit less than DRT on moose. Trying to include two disparate uses means you'll compromise on something, and that means not having the best at anything. It won't be a top ten contender on the range or out in the field, it doubles the number of choices to make, and they are often at cross purposes.
For cheap, you can only shoot military surplus, and that leaves out good moose calibers. .308 isn't being dumped out of storage much now - the world has changed over to intermediate calibers. And, you mostly can't hunt with it anyway, FMJ is largely prohibited, and premium hunting rounds better for the job.
A nice bolt gun in .308 can do both, but leaves a lot out, too. Sometimes two guns can't be afforded, sure. Go with what will work better for what you do most of the time. IF and when a guided moose hunt comes up, a good used bolt gun in .338 or such can be had. If all the paper shooting does any good, getting sighted in with the .338 will be enough. The skills will be there.
Paper is better shot with the 6 to 6.5mm calibers using some kind of PPC case. Whitetail to moose hunting means it's not going to be setup as a heavy range precision shooter, more a lightweight mountain gun in .30-06 minimum.
It's a 20" 12 pound plus 6.5Grendel with 4x12 target scope, vs. a 7 1/2 pound 18" .30-06 with 2x7 illuminated reticle. Target sling vs carry sling. Bipod vs. none. Trick adjustable aluminum rod stock, vs. composite camo.
You certainly could do both with a used .308 Remington 700 - but the recoil will start adding up after 50 rounds on the range, and the hunting loads are a bit less than DRT on moose. Trying to include two disparate uses means you'll compromise on something, and that means not having the best at anything. It won't be a top ten contender on the range or out in the field, it doubles the number of choices to make, and they are often at cross purposes.
For cheap, you can only shoot military surplus, and that leaves out good moose calibers. .308 isn't being dumped out of storage much now - the world has changed over to intermediate calibers. And, you mostly can't hunt with it anyway, FMJ is largely prohibited, and premium hunting rounds better for the job.
A nice bolt gun in .308 can do both, but leaves a lot out, too. Sometimes two guns can't be afforded, sure. Go with what will work better for what you do most of the time. IF and when a guided moose hunt comes up, a good used bolt gun in .338 or such can be had. If all the paper shooting does any good, getting sighted in with the .338 will be enough. The skills will be there.
This was all factory ammo?
When you buy factory, you take what they give ya ....... 30-06 w/ a 24" barrel can be made to shoot 2,700 f/sec, with proper (slower) powder selection ...... chop 2" inches off the barrel, and those slow powders (such as H4831, WIN 760, H4350, RL-19) don't do anything but make excess muzzle flash/blast....
jhgreasemonkey
New member
I wouldn't spend the extra money on the wsm. There is nothing wrong with it and it's a high performance flat shooter, but the advantage is not that much over the others to justify the cost. You also loose capacity in the magazine due to the fat case of the wsm. The .30-06 is a good versatile cartridge and you will have a ton of readily available ammo choices for a multitude of uses but to take advantage of the capability you need a long barreled rifle. Most rifles come with 22" barrels now days so that puts the 06 at .308 win performance levels and you will get a little more recoil and muzzle blast than the .308. So for those reasons I would get the .308 win in any rifle that catches your fancy. I am partial to savage 110 series rifles because they are usually cheaper than the competition and have the best accuracy I have seen out of a factory rifle. The last savage 110 I purchased, I went to the gun store set on picking one up in .308 win and it was going to be my new goto hunting rifle. They had the same rifle on sale in .30-06 for a huge savings, since the two are so close in performance I picked it up. You really can't go wrong with any of your cartridge choices but if I had them layed out in front of me for the same price I would pick the .308 win.
Clifford L. Hughes
New member
Clifford L. Hughes
Stonebl:
The 30/06 has been a exceptional performer since its introduction over a hundred years ago. With the introduction of high performance bullets it's much better then it was forty years ago. My M 70 doesn't like 100 gr. or 110 gr. bullets; however, some rifles do. My rifle will handle 125 gr. bullets through 220 gr. bullets. With modern bullets and the wide variety of bullet weights available, the 30/06 is hard to beat as an all around rifle cartridge.
Semper Fi.
Gunnery sergeant
Clifford L. Hughes
USMC Retired
Stonebl:
The 30/06 has been a exceptional performer since its introduction over a hundred years ago. With the introduction of high performance bullets it's much better then it was forty years ago. My M 70 doesn't like 100 gr. or 110 gr. bullets; however, some rifles do. My rifle will handle 125 gr. bullets through 220 gr. bullets. With modern bullets and the wide variety of bullet weights available, the 30/06 is hard to beat as an all around rifle cartridge.
Semper Fi.
Gunnery sergeant
Clifford L. Hughes
USMC Retired
With my handloads the difference between the 30-06 and 308 is 4 cents a round. With both I use the same brand of bullet, primer and cases. The powder is the only thing different. To me you would have to do a lot of shooting for the savings to add up and for me it's a wash. I shot them both about the same amount for when I go to the range I usually take both. The real savings is just the fact that I reload both of them for about 1/2 the price of factory loads.