So I am going to buy a new rifle in the near future I am only missing two small details, which rifle and which caliber. I am pretty sure I want a .30 caliber, I just don't know which one. I have narrowed it to, in no particular order, .308, .30-06 or .300 WSM. I will be shooting lots of paper, a few deer and hopefully elk, caribou and moose someday. I love the Browning A-bolt rifles, especially the M-1000 or the Eclipse, but I have also thought about a T/C Encore. Any thoughts?
Which .30 caliber? Then which rifle to put it in?
- Thread starter stonebl
- Start date
Geezerbiker
New member
A .30-06 is hard to beat. If you hand load, you can tailor your ammo for what you're hunting. I would go for a Savage if I was buying new.
Tony
Tony
If you are going to shoot a lot the 308 can be the least expensive to fire because of the availability of military ammo, and very cheap brass if you reload your own ammo.
The 30-06 is the best "all around caliber" of the 3 and probably the best all around caliber in the world.
The 300 is going to give you the capabilities of the 30-06 with about 80 additional yards.
Look at ballistic tables and you will find that the 300 mags (for the most part) are going the same speed at 80-90 yards as the 30-06 is at the muzzle, given the same bullet weight.
300 Ammo is WAY more costly and even brass is higher, so if you reload your own ammo, the 308 is less costly then the 30-06, and the 30-06 is less costly then the 300s.
In my opinion, I'd reject the 300 and choose between the 308
and the 30-06. If you want "way more" power then a 308 or 30-06 will give you, go up to a .338 or a 375, not just a faster 30 cal.
The 30-06 is the best "all around caliber" of the 3 and probably the best all around caliber in the world.
The 300 is going to give you the capabilities of the 30-06 with about 80 additional yards.
Look at ballistic tables and you will find that the 300 mags (for the most part) are going the same speed at 80-90 yards as the 30-06 is at the muzzle, given the same bullet weight.
300 Ammo is WAY more costly and even brass is higher, so if you reload your own ammo, the 308 is less costly then the 30-06, and the 30-06 is less costly then the 300s.
In my opinion, I'd reject the 300 and choose between the 308
and the 30-06. If you want "way more" power then a 308 or 30-06 will give you, go up to a .338 or a 375, not just a faster 30 cal.
wyosmith is right the 300 just does not give anough to justify the extra price
between the 30-06 and the 308 id go with the 308 just for the fact that it has less recoil and about the same ballistics
P.S. the encore is a really good package i have afew from .50 M.L. too 7mm mag and they all shoot great
between the 30-06 and the 308 id go with the 308 just for the fact that it has less recoil and about the same ballistics
P.S. the encore is a really good package i have afew from .50 M.L. too 7mm mag and they all shoot great
.300 Weatherby Mag
New member
MV of a 30-06 is around 2700 FPS with a 180 grain bullet..
The .300 Weatherby doesn't drop to that velocity till just shy of 300 yards with the same bullet..
Not saying you need a .300, but don't lump me in with the WSMs and the Win Mags..
The .300 Weatherby doesn't drop to that velocity till just shy of 300 yards with the same bullet..
Not saying you need a .300, but don't lump me in with the WSMs and the Win Mags..
Keep this in mind as well...
If you want a bit of extra power and performance, think about the .30-06 Ackley Improved.
This is nothing more than the .30-06 cartridge, with the taper removed and the shoulder moved forward a wee bit.
Velocities and energy approach that of the .300 Win Mag, but the beauty of this chambering is that it is actually a dual-caliber. You can fire standard .30-06 out of it--it will simply fireform the case to the Ackley Improved chamber.
The standard .30-06 is still (to me) one of the most versatile cartridges on the planet--and with the proper loads it can be extremely accurate.
If you want a bit of extra power and performance, think about the .30-06 Ackley Improved.
This is nothing more than the .30-06 cartridge, with the taper removed and the shoulder moved forward a wee bit.
Velocities and energy approach that of the .300 Win Mag, but the beauty of this chambering is that it is actually a dual-caliber. You can fire standard .30-06 out of it--it will simply fireform the case to the Ackley Improved chamber.
The standard .30-06 is still (to me) one of the most versatile cartridges on the planet--and with the proper loads it can be extremely accurate.
Just to clarify and respond:
The 300 Weatherby is faster then the short mag. When I wrote about the 300 VS the 30-06 I was referring to the short mag, not the Weatherby.
But even with that said, the 300 Weatherby does NOT go to 300 yd before its equal to the 30-06, but it at 217 yards when it reaches the 2700 FPS mark.
Secondly, I would point out that A 300 Weatherby is straining to get to 3200 FPS at the muzzle I am a gunsmith and I have been one for many years. I have built about 30 rifles in my life in 300 Weatherby and all with 26-28” barrels. I have owned a chronograph for many years and I heave actually measured the velocity of these rifles. You CANNOT believe the advertisers of some of the ammo manufacturers. A FEW can get a 180 to 3200 FPS but not often, and to do so you must get your pressures up to over 64,000PSI
The 30-06 can also be pushed to it’s max in a 24” barrel and run to pressures of about 60,000 PSI, and when you do so, you get about 2800 FPS, not 2700 FPS,
So the truth is still that even the Weatherby is not as much more powerful as those that love it might like to think.
Again I will say I am not dealing with theory there. I KNOW! I have made more rifles in the last 40 years than I can count, and I have choreographed most of them.
So if we compare top velocities at top pressures the Weatherby only beats the old 30-06 by about 400 FPS at the max, and 300 FPS is closer to the truth in probably 90% of the cases.
If you look at a 180 grain .308” flat base soft point bullet with a B.C. of .430 fired at 60 degrees F, and at 1500 feet elevation, at 3200 FPS muzzle velocity, we see that it is at 2750 at 188 yards. Better then the short mag, but not as much a “death ray” as most people think.
It’s faster than the 06 and therefore makes range estimations a bit easier, but it’s still the same bullet as the 06. Going faster is not always better. If the bullet is too fast it can break up more, and penetrate less. That’s something I learned guiding elk hunters over 30 years ago.
The 300 Weahterby is at it’s absolute best with Barnes X bullets so it’s velocity doesn’t cause the bullets to break up as badly as most other soft points.
The mighty 300 is an outstanding round, but it needs an outstanding bullet to be its best.
I stand by my observation that the best “all around” cartridge for the hunter is still the 30-06, meaning it’s the most versatile, covers the most bases, and it does most jobs well. Not all, but more then any other shell I can name.
I am not a die hard 30-06 man, because I love guns and I have several, in many different calibers. I like a bit more specialization.
But to play the “what if game”, if I could have only one rifle to hunt everything from elk down, I would choose a 30-06.
If I could have only one rifle to hunt everything from coyotes to elephant, it would be a 375H&H.
The 300 Weatherby is faster then the short mag. When I wrote about the 300 VS the 30-06 I was referring to the short mag, not the Weatherby.
But even with that said, the 300 Weatherby does NOT go to 300 yd before its equal to the 30-06, but it at 217 yards when it reaches the 2700 FPS mark.
Secondly, I would point out that A 300 Weatherby is straining to get to 3200 FPS at the muzzle I am a gunsmith and I have been one for many years. I have built about 30 rifles in my life in 300 Weatherby and all with 26-28” barrels. I have owned a chronograph for many years and I heave actually measured the velocity of these rifles. You CANNOT believe the advertisers of some of the ammo manufacturers. A FEW can get a 180 to 3200 FPS but not often, and to do so you must get your pressures up to over 64,000PSI
The 30-06 can also be pushed to it’s max in a 24” barrel and run to pressures of about 60,000 PSI, and when you do so, you get about 2800 FPS, not 2700 FPS,
So the truth is still that even the Weatherby is not as much more powerful as those that love it might like to think.
Again I will say I am not dealing with theory there. I KNOW! I have made more rifles in the last 40 years than I can count, and I have choreographed most of them.
So if we compare top velocities at top pressures the Weatherby only beats the old 30-06 by about 400 FPS at the max, and 300 FPS is closer to the truth in probably 90% of the cases.
If you look at a 180 grain .308” flat base soft point bullet with a B.C. of .430 fired at 60 degrees F, and at 1500 feet elevation, at 3200 FPS muzzle velocity, we see that it is at 2750 at 188 yards. Better then the short mag, but not as much a “death ray” as most people think.
It’s faster than the 06 and therefore makes range estimations a bit easier, but it’s still the same bullet as the 06. Going faster is not always better. If the bullet is too fast it can break up more, and penetrate less. That’s something I learned guiding elk hunters over 30 years ago.
The 300 Weahterby is at it’s absolute best with Barnes X bullets so it’s velocity doesn’t cause the bullets to break up as badly as most other soft points.
The mighty 300 is an outstanding round, but it needs an outstanding bullet to be its best.
I stand by my observation that the best “all around” cartridge for the hunter is still the 30-06, meaning it’s the most versatile, covers the most bases, and it does most jobs well. Not all, but more then any other shell I can name.
I am not a die hard 30-06 man, because I love guns and I have several, in many different calibers. I like a bit more specialization.
But to play the “what if game”, if I could have only one rifle to hunt everything from elk down, I would choose a 30-06.
If I could have only one rifle to hunt everything from coyotes to elephant, it would be a 375H&H.
My analysis of weatherby vs/ 06, +.30:
06 24" barrel 180 accubond 2800 mv (reloads)
300 Weatherby 26" barrel 180 accubond 3150 mv (reloads not factory) back down to 2800 fps under 200 yards.
By the way the Weatherby needed 2" of barrel and 20% more powder, kicked much harder, cost more, wasn't more accurate.
Source Nosler Reloading guide #6
Essentially with 180 grain bullets the 3.08 is 2700 at the muzzle. the 06 ditto at 50 yards, the 300 win at 200, the Weatherby at 225 unless you add in the longer barrel they need then give them that at 250.
A well placed shot from any of these rounds will kill NA big game at 300 yards reliably (exclude bears that aren't black)
I love the 06 and I'm trying to wean myself to a brand new 3.08 which I'll use 150 grain barnes ttsx bullets in.
06 24" barrel 180 accubond 2800 mv (reloads)
300 Weatherby 26" barrel 180 accubond 3150 mv (reloads not factory) back down to 2800 fps under 200 yards.
By the way the Weatherby needed 2" of barrel and 20% more powder, kicked much harder, cost more, wasn't more accurate.
Source Nosler Reloading guide #6
Essentially with 180 grain bullets the 3.08 is 2700 at the muzzle. the 06 ditto at 50 yards, the 300 win at 200, the Weatherby at 225 unless you add in the longer barrel they need then give them that at 250.
A well placed shot from any of these rounds will kill NA big game at 300 yards reliably (exclude bears that aren't black)
I love the 06 and I'm trying to wean myself to a brand new 3.08 which I'll use 150 grain barnes ttsx bullets in.
.300 Magnums are pointless to me. They do absolutely nothing for a hunter that the .30/06 or .308 Win won't.
Given that the .308 & .30/06 have sufficient velocity to penetrate game adequately (they do), the only thing you get with a .300 magnum is a heavier gun with a longer barrel, a lighter wallet, and a deaf(er?) ear.
Personally, I'd go for the .308 if I had to do it over again just for preferance sake, but my .30/06 has never failed me...
Given that the .308 & .30/06 have sufficient velocity to penetrate game adequately (they do), the only thing you get with a .300 magnum is a heavier gun with a longer barrel, a lighter wallet, and a deaf(er?) ear.
Personally, I'd go for the .308 if I had to do it over again just for preferance sake, but my .30/06 has never failed me...
okiewita40
New member
I would say go with the .308. Will do everything that is on your list and you can get fairly cheap target/plinking ammo from time to time. The 30-06 is a time proven classic and you can load it with a lot of different bullet weights. I would stay away from anything that says magnum in a rifle. With the .308 vs 30-06 there is only going to be 100-150 fps difference between the two given the same bullet weight and barrel length. Besides that little of a difference the target won't know it anyway.
mapsjanhere
New member
The one item on the list that's the problem is the moose. Otherwise you can't beat the 308 for price, especially if you're killing a lot of paper. So my advice, a Browning or one of the new FN made Winchesters in 308, and when you really have a moose tag get a 300 RUM.
30-06 for best all around caliber. I would recommend that cartridge in a T/C Venture, Weatherby Vanguard, or Winchester Model 70.
I have all 3 rifles (in 30-06, 270 Win, and 243 Win respectively) and am very happy with them. All of them will shoot moa or better if the nut behind the trigger does his job.
I have all 3 rifles (in 30-06, 270 Win, and 243 Win respectively) and am very happy with them. All of them will shoot moa or better if the nut behind the trigger does his job.
Have you considered a 30-30 in either a model 94 or a 336?
Another alternative would be .300 Savage in a Model 99.
Of the ones you mention toss a coin between the .308 and the .30-06. The .30-06 is a bit better out of a longer barrel and with heavier bullets.
I've used a .30-06 for over 30 years and my only problem is I can't burn up 100 cartridges without discomfort any more.
If I were starting all over I'd opt for a 7x57mm or a 6.5x55 Swede.
As far as what rifle, I like my Win Model 70. But the main thing is to pick one that fits you and your intended use.
It is harder to find a bad modern rifle than a good one.
Another alternative would be .300 Savage in a Model 99.
Of the ones you mention toss a coin between the .308 and the .30-06. The .30-06 is a bit better out of a longer barrel and with heavier bullets.
I've used a .30-06 for over 30 years and my only problem is I can't burn up 100 cartridges without discomfort any more.
If I were starting all over I'd opt for a 7x57mm or a 6.5x55 Swede.
As far as what rifle, I like my Win Model 70. But the main thing is to pick one that fits you and your intended use.
It is harder to find a bad modern rifle than a good one.
Can't go wrong with a .308
Recoil is negligible, very accurate out to 1000 yards, has more than enough knockdown power for any North American game, and has plenty of data to reference off of for hand loads and the such.
I have a T/C Icon Precision Hunter in .308 and I've been loving it thus far. I keep getting the chance to shoot it further and further and it has been performing well beyond my expectations.
Also, they have made some significant accomplishments with the .308 in terms of pushing its velocity to 3000fps with a 150grain ballistic tip bullet.
I shoot Hornady's Superperformance out of my T/C Icon, it's pretty dead on with its velocities at 3000 fps (usually within 80-100fps)
Recoil is negligible, very accurate out to 1000 yards, has more than enough knockdown power for any North American game, and has plenty of data to reference off of for hand loads and the such.
I have a T/C Icon Precision Hunter in .308 and I've been loving it thus far. I keep getting the chance to shoot it further and further and it has been performing well beyond my expectations.
Also, they have made some significant accomplishments with the .308 in terms of pushing its velocity to 3000fps with a 150grain ballistic tip bullet.
I shoot Hornady's Superperformance out of my T/C Icon, it's pretty dead on with its velocities at 3000 fps (usually within 80-100fps)
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Edward429451
Moderator
You do not even need a 30/06 for the animals you listed, the .308 will take them all.