Which 1911A1?

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Do-Man, not trying to sound like a broken record, but I was at the range today, handled the rental Colt 1991A1 that has been shot thousands of times, great gun.

I would trade my semi knew Kimber with 1500 rounds through it for a new Colt any day. That offer stands to anyone on this forum.
 
I also own both a SA loaded and a Kimber custom. Both are reliable and accuate. I personally like the SA better. The finish on the Kimber is chipping on MINE, and IMO, the beavertail and sights on the SA are better for ME. The thing about colts,IMO, they are not true 1911's as designed by Mr. Browning.

[This message has been edited by t2 (edited February 27, 2000).]
 
I'm not touching the Kimber vs. the world debate....

Why aren't Colts original 1911A1 as designed by Browning? Some modification? If so, why are they worth more then as resale?

Doland
 
Everyone seems to hold dearly to their own experiences - and why not? All of my Colts were old ones, so I went to see for myself if newer ones are the junk that "everyone" knows they are. I bought an unfired Delta Elite, and couldn't be happier with the fit and finish. It's reliable, and is a great gun. My '42 Colt, that sees more use than my others combined, is also a great gun. Never owned a Kimber or a Springfield, but wouldn't rule out either based solely on someone else's experiences. In my experience, Kimbers and Springfields are no more or less likely to require a little tuning, but I find that Kimber OWNERS are more likely to whine about their guns needing a little tuning! Most of the guys with whom I shoot who shoot Kimbers are fairly new to shooting and shooting sports. They expect their guns to run, out of the box, and when they don't they send them back. More experienced shooters seem to take the necessary tuning in stride.
 
All 1911's have their pros and cons. Kimbers are great guns, but I have found that they are not the "Miracle Cure-all" 1911's that everyone has told me (which influenced me to buy a Gold Match at the time). My Gold Match has had several failures to feed, and I do not like most of the small parts, including both safeties. Does that mean I have a bad gun? No. But I would want it to be tweaked a little before I would rely on it.
My advice is to do a lot of research into 1911's before buying one. Don't just focus on the good stuff you hear too. Take into consideration all the bad stuff you hear (all manufacturers will have bad reports), and decide for yourself which on gives you the "best vibes".
I've been reading countless posts about how many people have had Kimbers that never malfunctioned, or how many Master Dealers praise them. Well, I've learned not to buy into all that. First, many people may not want to admit that the gun they paid a lot of money for has given them some minor problems. As for Master Dealers...well, they are trying to make a living, and Master Dealers have to stock a good amount of inventory. Of course, this means that they have to sell what they have. You really think all of them would tell you that Kimbers are anything but good? Remember, dealers are salespeople, trying to sell a product so they can make a buck. This is not to say that all dealers will tell you half truths just to make a sale, but unfortunately, this is often the case.
 
It is my personal observation that Kimber makes perhaps the finest production-made 1911s today.

However, I will be hesitant in buying another Kimber (yes, that's right, "another" as in I bought one before).

My Pro Carry had a number of problems out-of-box including a serious feeding problem as well as the now notorious slide stop problem.

Now, I recognize that every gun maker produces lemons. What made me hesitant about Kimber was its customer service.

After some polite correspondences with Kimber customer service, I sent the gun in. It came back in short order with a list of fixes that were supposedly done on it.

But, the gun malfunctioned just the same. So, I decided that it may be a waste of my time and money to keep sending it back ($25 a trip nowadays). I believe that Ankeny had a similar experience.

In contrast, I had a minor problem with a SIG P229 (the rear sight fell off) and sent it back to factory. Not only did SIG fix this rather minor problem, it installed a short trigger and performed a trigger job for free for my trouble of having to send it back. Now, that's customer service. That's the kind of service that gives confidence to a consumer that he will be taken care of AFTER buying a product.

In the final analysis, I must say the following. First, with current manufacturing technology, even production models ought to function 100% out of box. Second, should there be deviations from this norm (the lemons), the factory should fix the problem promptly (say 2-4 weeks or less) to the complete satisfaction of the customer. That I believe is what I should expect for spending my hard-earned money on a product (any product).

Afterall, would you buy the argument that it is normal for your Ford to stall every five miles because it needs a 200 mile break-in period or for your computer to crash every five minutes because it needs a 200 minute break-in period?

Skorzeny

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For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the supreme excellence. Sun Tzu
 
I would only be hesitant to buy another Kimber just because I do not feel that their cost is always worth the value. Their frames, slides, and barrels are great, and Kimbers can make a great pistol. But I've grown to really dislike the smaller MIM components. I too had to replace the slide stop. The plastic mainspring housing kinda pissed me off, considering that I paid a good amount for a 1911. It has jammed on me a few times. The ambi thumb safety was not fitted completely right in my opinion, cause the two sides of the safety don't fit snugly together. The right side will fall right out as as soon as I remove the grip on that side. Also, the bushing is not fit properly either.
My Kimber Gold Match has great potential to become a great gun after some tuning. But it is far from perfect out of the factory. Some of these things could have been taken care of before it left the factory.
Now, I know people will be saying "My Kimber(s) have never given me any problems...yada yada yada". Some people will probably never experience a problem with theirs. But there are recurring problems that seem to be consistent with some Kimbers out there. As long as these few problems exist, Kimber should do something about it.
I have grown to become a strong believer in either getting the most simple 1911 with no bells or whistles, or getting one built ground up or from a plain Jane 1911 from a true custom gunsmiths. I would never recommend any factory "custom" or "loaded" model anymore. The only exception may be Rock River Arms, as they do true customization using their frames/slides, and will work with an individual customer. Otherwise, my advice is to get a basic 1911 to build upon if needed, or to have a true custom smith to build you one from parts.
 
Just another unimportant comment I'd like to add. I do kinda regret getting a Gold Match because I feel that I could have gotten a better gun using a base gun to customize. Because I would still have to spend some money to get my Gold Match the way I want it. Also, I'm stuck with the "Bomar" style adjustable sights, since the slide has been cut for that sight. I've grown to like only the Heinie Slant Pros now, and won't settle for anything else on a custom gun. I feel that they offer a sight picture just as good, ir not better, than ANY adjustable sight, with more durability and snag proof profile.
 
have dah most all 1911s except Kimber at one time or another - prefer p1445 ( built from kits ) and new LDA to any single stack 1911
 
Rock River. Wilson. Glock 21. Rock River. Wilson. Glock 21. Rock River. Wilson. Glock 21. Rock River. Wilson. Glock 21.Rock River. Wilson. Glock 21. Rock River. Wilson. Glock 21.Rock River. Wilson. Glock 21. Rock River. Wilson. Glock 21.Rock River. Wilson. Glock 21. Rock River. Wilson. Glock 21.Rock River. Wilson. Glock 21. Rock River. Wilson. Glock 21.
 
I agree with what was said above. Inspect the firearms very carefully before purchasing. If you are new to the 1911, it would help to bring someone who knows what to look for.
I have examined 2 pistols of the exact same model side by side at times. There can even be slight variances between pistols of the exact same model. Make sure the particular piece that you buy has been thoroughly examined.
 
Ok, so what if I have someone build up a plain SA 1911 with mods for me. I could go to Kings Custom, since they are pretty local.

My objective: a .45 for shooting and defense, maybe IDPA, reliably feeds hollowpoints. Minimal bells and whistles.

I was thinking of adding:
- beavertail grip
- extended ambi safety
- extended slide stop
- trigger work
- combat hammer
- Novak sights
- beveled mag well
- throat feed ramp

Would anything else be good?

Seems this is what a SA "loaded" has all this out of the box, except the trigger work and feed ramp, that's why I was looking at it initially. Would this be more expensive than the "loaded" with trigger work?
 
DoMan, sounds like a good idea. Kings is REALLY expensive, but worth it if you can afford it. I know of a good gunsmith in the (818) area if you need one.

p.s. Who do you know of in the L.A. area that stocks Springfield ?
 
Take a look at the STI trojan. Compared to the Kimber Gold, it clearly is a better mouse trap. Benefits over the Kimber are

1) Scheumann Barrel
2) Bomar OEMs their adjustable sights
3) Lockworks are A-6 Tool steel, not MIM.
4) Flat top slide
5) Frame and slide fit equal to or better.
6) Cheaper. ( Kimber just raised prices )

My STI get 1.5" @ 25 yds.

Good luck
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by fanof1911s:
Take a look at the STI trojan. Compared to the Kimber Gold, it clearly is a better mouse trap. Benefits over the Kimber are

1) Scheumann Barrel
2) Bomar OEMs their adjustable sights
3) Lockworks are A-6 Tool steel, not MIM.
4) Flat top slide
5) Frame and slide fit equal to or better.
6) Cheaper. ( Kimber just raised prices )

My STI get 1.5" @ 25 yds.

Good luck[/quote]
Could you give more info on the STI Trojan,
I have not heard of this gun, where is the company based,etc.warranty.
thanks
bullet44


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My experience with Kimbers is limited to a Custom, and a Custom Target. Both pistols impressed me so much I intend to buy one.

That's not to say I wouldn't consider other brands... but as it stands now, the Kimber will be my first choice.

--Rich

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Nothing threatens freedom so much as self rightous ignorance.
 
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