Where have all the DAO Pistols gone?

Heeeeey; don't do that.:eek: The more I shoot my p250sc the more I like it. Good features are much larger margin of safety against ADs particularly if you have to gun and regun several times a day. Of course you have to practice to learn the trigger if you're a striker guy, but the deliberate shot is sweet and reassuring.
 
Y'all who don't care for real DAO's, just send them to me. I'll give 'em all the TLC they deserve!

[emoji12] [emoji12] [emoji12]
 
I did put this article up as an example. Were none of the police agencies issued a DAO pistol? Especially when switching over from double action revolvers?
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The majority switched to da/sa pistols. The S&W pistols and the Beretta 92 ruled the roost for a number of years. There were not that many dao pistols available back then. It was also the case that da/sa pistols were understood and presumed to be the best type action for law enforcement and the military available. The Beretta 92 had just been selected by the U.S. military after extensive testing, evaluation and discussion. Agencies that went with a dao pistol were outliers, not the norm.

The "general wisdom" was that da/sa pistols were the best for law enforcement. This was reflected in training and the gun mags. Advocates of single action pistols (the 1911 and BHP) were a minority.

It was argued that da/sa pistols were safer than single actions, allowed for double strike capability, easier to train people on, that condition one carry was unsafe for officers and confusing to them, da/sa allowed for a da first shot without having to rack the slide or cock a hammer, etc. Once the wonder nines appeared the argument that more rounds of 9mm were an improvement the arguments, as far as law enforcement was concerned, were over.

The arguments from Jeff Cooper and others, for single action handguns and the 1911, was that they were trying to solve a software problem with hardware. The argument that all that was needed was more training with the 1911 rather than a whole new type gun were ignored. Cooper advocated that no type gun could make up for a lack of training and poor gun handling skills.

Da/sa guns ruled the roost till Glock appeared. Glocks had no manual external safeties and are not da,sa, etc. At which point, fairly rapidly, the advocates of da/sa guns for leos changed gears. Now all that was needed was adequate training on Glocks to prevent unintended discharges. The very things that had made da/sa guns safer and better than the Hi-Power or the 1911 were now unnecessary and encumbrances. It helped that Glocks were durable and reliable guns and could be had to cash strapped law enforcement for free.

tipoc
 
The majority switched to da/sa pistols. The S&W pistols and the Beretta 92 ruled the roost for a number of years. There were not that many dao pistols available back then.
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Both Beretta and S&W had DAO versions of those pistols. Some are still in use today.
 
All the DAO lover's should be happy that someone in the gun industry is looking out for them. Taurus has just recently released a very Curve-y manly gun just for you guys.

if it's obviously good enough for some assumedly famous baseball guy, what are you waiting for
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fx9tlmPI8Fk

I kid, but I really want to shoot one, just not actually buy it
 
Both Beretta and S&W had DAO versions of those pistols. Some are still in use today.
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Yes they did and both were decidedly a tiny proportion of the guns selected for service among law enforcement agencies in the U.S. as I mentioned.

S&W did a number of these in their third gen guns generally referred to as their "slick sided" guns because they had no safety/decockers mounted on the slides. They also usually had 4 digit model designations.

They were, and still are, more popular as concealed carry pieces than as service sidearms.

tipoc
 
I have and like the S&W 3953 9mm single stack, makes for a nice flat carry gun. I would love to add a S&W 59 DAO series to the collection.
 
Yes they did and both were decidedly a tiny proportion of the guns selected for service among law enforcement agencies in the U.S. as I mentioned.
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Near me the percentage was not what I would call tiny.

NYPD and MDPD allowed them as an officer sidearm:
http://www.tactical-life.com/exclusives/big-city-carry/

I know Brinks in my area is still issuing the 4046, though I think they are transitioning to the M&P.

They also usually had 4 digit model designations.
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All the third gen guns, with the exception of the value series that came later, had 4 digit model designations regardless of action type. The third digit from the left, were it a 4, indicated a DAO pistol.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_%26_Wesson_Model_5906
 
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No big deal, but in light of striker-fire handguns dominating the current state of law enforcement, let's not forget that the Sig DAK and HK LEM triggers are well represented in the LEO community with DHS and BP.
 
My firearms instructor was dead set against DAO in '90/'91 during our academy so we all had S&W DA/SA pistols. However, the thinking changed 180 degrees to DAO and later to Glock SA in subsequent academies.

I've had 9 duty weapons in my time so some of them were DAO due to policy. Other than the three Glocks, I had a Beretta Cougar 8040D, an H&K USP .40 DAO, a Beretta 96D and an H&K P2000 V2 .40. The worst was the USP and the best was the P2000.

If I had to choose between a DAO and a DA/SA now for a new duty weapon, I'd stay with DAO because that single action trigger under stress may very well get me in trouble. Also, the disparity in both trigger actions for the average officer, in my opinion, may very well get an amped up officer in trouble the samevway.
 
The article you cite is from 2012. Has little to do with the late 1980s-early 90s period under discussion.
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Actually I'd expect the percentages to be even higher back then because that was before Glocks saw adoption on the level they have today. Back then the pistols in question were even more prominent and were definitely in production. That they are still authorized is basically because they are legacy pistols from earlier times (i.e. the third gen S&Ws haven't been produced for some time). DAO pistols do and did see usage on a scale higher than "tiny", that was my point. I'm not trying to quibble over words, I'm just pointing out that DAO pistols saw a time, if a short one. People have pointed that out to the OP a number of times, he just hasn't been paying attention.



To your point though, there was a period of debate between DA/SA and DAO. The reality is that DAO hammer fired pistols never caught on to the level that the manufacturers may have hoped, but Beretta, SIG, HK, and S&W did manage to net a number of decent contracts with their own respective DAO systems. I've always felt that if you want to go DAO just get a striker fired pistol. For Beretta, SIG, HK, and S&W I think they realized their customers felt the same way and all of them have finally gotten striker fired pistols to market, and taken a long time to get to that point.
 
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Actually I'd expect the percentages to be even higher back then because that was before Glocks saw adoption on the level they have today.
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It's only by looking backward from today that one might expect that dao pistols would be more prominent in the hands of leos. But if we look from then to now-the way history and time occur-we see that it was different. It was the traditional double action pistols, da/sa, that dominated in law enforcement into the 90s when Glocks rose. While dao autos were present the bulk of the guns sold to departments across the country were traditional double actions. Both in sales and production it was da/sa guns that dominated. This was the legacy of pistol craft coming out of the second world war.

When you realize that you also appreciate more the revolution that Glock introduced.

tipoc
 
While dao autos were present the bulk of the guns sold to departments across the country were traditional double actions. Both in sales and production it was da/sa guns that dominated.
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The thing is it's a long time period from the early 90s to today. The OP was relatively vague about what time period specifically, more asking if they ever saw usage when departments transitioned from revolvers than anything else. While that did happen in the time frame you describe, there were also years after that. You have the 2000s which you can't ignore. I stand by what I said and the examples I've given.

They were used and are still used today, and until DHS switches over from the P2000 in LEM the single greatest US law enforcement buy of pistols was for a DAO pistol. Unless someone has an actual percentage breakdown for all the departments across the country, we can only really speculate. Do I think DA/SA had the lion's share? Sure, but DAO saw some pretty extensive usage too.
 
I was referring specifically to post #25 and the question asked there...

I did put this article up as an example. Were none of the police agencies issued a DAO pistol? Especially when switching over from double action revolvers?
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So I replied to that. I specifically did not address the last 20 years as he did not ask about that in his post.

There is a tendency nowadays, I believe, to rewrite the history of pistolcraft from the point of view of Glock action triggers. To say that it was the trigger with a consistent pull from shot to shot that made Glocks popular and that folks had been looking for that for a long time. That view is incorrect. When you look at what actually took place it was more interesting than that.

tipoc
 
So I replied to that. I specifically did not address the last 20 years as he did not ask about that in his post.
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Yes and no. The first post was more generic. He clarified a bit after the fact. Also these DAO pistols did exist in the 90s. But I do get your point about narrowing down a timeframe.

There is a tendency nowadays, I believe, to rewrite the history of pistolcraft from the point of view of Glock action triggers. To say that it was the trigger with a consistent pull from shot to shot that made Glocks popular and that folks had been looking for that for a long time. That view is incorrect. When you look at what actually took place it was more interesting than that.
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We've had a number of threads where we've gone into that. Usually things get a little heated and sometimes the threads get locked. It probably will never stop being discussed.
 
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