Wildalaska
Moderator
I forgot to add that the Japanese would invent space arks and with a concerted national effort move all of their population to a new galaxy
WildtoyotaoftheskiesAlaska TM
WildtoyotaoftheskiesAlaska TM
When will the decline of America reach the point of no return?
- Thread starter grymster2007
- Start date
sw_florida
Moderator
That Hillary
can win in the next election for president is a sign, telling that the need for individual freedom is on the decline. That's a problem for those who want to keep their individual freedom (within the law).
The cocky Latino influence is producing a new society of less respect shown towards one another. Their attitude is becoming a problem to everyone, including the Latinos them selves.
The future America will likely be a place of clear racial division between the states. Chinatown of Seattle will swamp Washington. California will be Mexico #2. Maine will be for the white. But America will remain the place people move to to seek freedom.
The quality of American made products need to go up in the future. The best semi automatics handguns are no longer made in America. American cars suck, etc, etc.
can win in the next election for president is a sign, telling that the need for individual freedom is on the decline. That's a problem for those who want to keep their individual freedom (within the law).
The cocky Latino influence is producing a new society of less respect shown towards one another. Their attitude is becoming a problem to everyone, including the Latinos them selves.
The future America will likely be a place of clear racial division between the states. Chinatown of Seattle will swamp Washington. California will be Mexico #2. Maine will be for the white. But America will remain the place people move to to seek freedom.
The quality of American made products need to go up in the future. The best semi automatics handguns are no longer made in America. American cars suck, etc, etc.
Socialism does not depend on central control. There are as my types of socialism as there are capitalism, either can be subject to centralised govt control. But don't let it worry you, most americans are unbelievably ignorant when it comes to economics, that's why we can have a state corporate hybrid system supported by a political party who claim to favor free markets.
Still, any comments claiming the decline of america are incredibly premature. We are more powerful, wealthier and more free than any people in the history of mankind, and that includes our own parents and ancestors.
Still, any comments claiming the decline of america are incredibly premature. We are more powerful, wealthier and more free than any people in the history of mankind, and that includes our own parents and ancestors.
Unregistered
Moderator
Rome was still the most powerful country on earth when it fell. Just because the next most powerful country is a distant second does not mean we can't fall apart.
Unregistered
Moderator
Whats the matter with citing historical references? I know people don't like to learn from history, but it would save a lot of grief if we did. America is a large country and we control large portions of the group using a combination of economic and military might. We are not Rome, Greece, or Persia, but certainly we are the 21st Century equivalent.
grymster2007
New member
JustMe,
I quite understand the various forms of socialism and that there are degrees of said. When the central government, in an attempt to more evenly distribute wealth takes money from your pocket and puts it in mine that is a form of socialism. It is unfair and counter-productive to rationally organized society. In its extreme state, where most of the wealth is distributed evenly (this is the direction we’re heading), socialism cannot persist. Why? Because it is unfair! Some people are too lazy work hard and some people cannot work hard or at all. The people that can and do work hard do so for the purpose of making a better life for themselves. When there is no longer incentive in doing so, they’ll stop. Taking away the incentive for people to work hard is counter-productive to rationally organized society. People usually do not recognize the realities of this until they have worked very hard, only to see that a major portion of the benefits of their effort have gone to the guy who did not work so hard.
And yes... America is still the best gig on the planet.... for now!
I quite understand the various forms of socialism and that there are degrees of said. When the central government, in an attempt to more evenly distribute wealth takes money from your pocket and puts it in mine that is a form of socialism. It is unfair and counter-productive to rationally organized society. In its extreme state, where most of the wealth is distributed evenly (this is the direction we’re heading), socialism cannot persist. Why? Because it is unfair! Some people are too lazy work hard and some people cannot work hard or at all. The people that can and do work hard do so for the purpose of making a better life for themselves. When there is no longer incentive in doing so, they’ll stop. Taking away the incentive for people to work hard is counter-productive to rationally organized society. People usually do not recognize the realities of this until they have worked very hard, only to see that a major portion of the benefits of their effort have gone to the guy who did not work so hard.
And yes... America is still the best gig on the planet.... for now!
So far, I've read nothing of this in this particular thread. Constructive criticism is an overall positive, and no country is perfect.
The OP's message is that there's an overall wrong direction in which the country is headed, and a large non-violent course correction is needed in my opinion.
Another poster stated, "socialism is good", I'd beg to disagree. Socialism in it's two primary forms; fascism and communism, has killed more humans on this planet than all the other movements in the history of mankind. It far past time to cast socialism on the dung heap of history, and fortunately that's slowly, inexorably happening.
I'm sorry, I voted "too late", but I disagree with a lot of the reasoning of the original poster. Particularly "• Our tolerance of every kind of whacked-out, deviant behavior imaginable"...
I mean, honestly...dude. Just go back to England
. (Meant in all good nature)
Anyway, I mostly see a decline in terms a little simpler. We are simply no longer the "cutting edge". We have to import more than we export. We, as a society, have no goals. We are listless. We have no national identity without some outward threat or enemy. Without a war...America is unable to define itself. A country like that can't last. We're just too infantile.
Our political system has become somewhat of a international joke. The vast majority of the voting populace must be communicated to using short verbal sound bytes and slogans. Candidates are elected almost entirely on name recognition alone. If Clinton wins in 2008, we will have spent a quarter of a century effectively under a dynasty of either a Bush- or a Clinton.
Also, to be quite blunt...as soon as individual freedom dies, even if America goes on living, the idea of America, the promise of America, will be dead. America isn't going to die at the guns of some new rival power. It will die in the patriot ashes of a police state, with all the sound byte voters waving their flags and being afraid behind the deadbolts of their starter homes.
I mean, honestly...dude. Just go back to England
. (Meant in all good nature)Anyway, I mostly see a decline in terms a little simpler. We are simply no longer the "cutting edge". We have to import more than we export. We, as a society, have no goals. We are listless. We have no national identity without some outward threat or enemy. Without a war...America is unable to define itself. A country like that can't last. We're just too infantile.
Our political system has become somewhat of a international joke. The vast majority of the voting populace must be communicated to using short verbal sound bytes and slogans. Candidates are elected almost entirely on name recognition alone. If Clinton wins in 2008, we will have spent a quarter of a century effectively under a dynasty of either a Bush- or a Clinton.
Also, to be quite blunt...as soon as individual freedom dies, even if America goes on living, the idea of America, the promise of America, will be dead. America isn't going to die at the guns of some new rival power. It will die in the patriot ashes of a police state, with all the sound byte voters waving their flags and being afraid behind the deadbolts of their starter homes.
So far nobody has come up with a solution, I see.
How do you measure decline?
1. Morality - America is in decline
2. Military power - America is not in decline
3. Personal freedom - America has been in decline since the 30s
4. Level of taxation - America is in decline
5. Irresponsibility and corruption of the major media - decline
6. Emotionally driven division of politics - decline
7. Growth of the size of government is accelerating - decline
8. Primary and secondary education - decline
9. Postsecondary education - decline
10. Attack on religious people and advent of hate speech laws - decline
11. Courage of our politicians - serious decline
12. Disconnect of our politicians from their constituents - decline
This is a short list, I could go on and on. 10 out of 11 categories so far show decline.
How do you measure decline?
1. Morality - America is in decline
2. Military power - America is not in decline
3. Personal freedom - America has been in decline since the 30s
4. Level of taxation - America is in decline
5. Irresponsibility and corruption of the major media - decline
6. Emotionally driven division of politics - decline
7. Growth of the size of government is accelerating - decline
8. Primary and secondary education - decline
9. Postsecondary education - decline
10. Attack on religious people and advent of hate speech laws - decline
11. Courage of our politicians - serious decline
12. Disconnect of our politicians from their constituents - decline
This is a short list, I could go on and on. 10 out of 11 categories so far show decline.
An interesting article about the end of the Republic was published yesterday:
Living in an Imperial World by Karen Kwiatkowski (LTC, USAF ret.).
It is, I think, germane to this topic.
Living in an Imperial World by Karen Kwiatkowski (LTC, USAF ret.).
It is, I think, germane to this topic.
That's a good article. Thanks for sharing it with us.
It's so true. Freedom is hated and feared by many. Perhaps by most.
Sure most people love various aspects of freedom. But on the whole, freedom fills them with a deep fear and loathing.
In an attempt to conceal this hatred they call proponents of freedom "wackos" and claim that the concept of freedom is unrealistic in the modern world.
It was quite the revelation to me that pro-gun does not mean pro-freedom and that some of the most vocally pro-gun individuals out there are also the most staunch supporters of the freedom hating government.
It's so true. Freedom is hated and feared by many. Perhaps by most.
Sure most people love various aspects of freedom. But on the whole, freedom fills them with a deep fear and loathing.
In an attempt to conceal this hatred they call proponents of freedom "wackos" and claim that the concept of freedom is unrealistic in the modern world.
It was quite the revelation to me that pro-gun does not mean pro-freedom and that some of the most vocally pro-gun individuals out there are also the most staunch supporters of the freedom hating government.
"where most of the wealth is distributed evenly (this is the direction we’re heading)"
Actually the income numbers say the opposite. The rich really are getting richer. You've heard of the increasing income gap no doubt. Punch 'income gap' into google.
"It was quite the revelation"
I suppose that's what happens when you just assume things without checking first. I guess there are as many in favor of law and order as there are in favor of no law and disorder. Or something like that.
John
Actually the income numbers say the opposite. The rich really are getting richer. You've heard of the increasing income gap no doubt. Punch 'income gap' into google.
"It was quite the revelation"
I suppose that's what happens when you just assume things without checking first. I guess there are as many in favor of law and order as there are in favor of no law and disorder. Or something like that.
John
We are near (or even past) the point where the majority of the people in the US pay no taxes. Once the majority is being financed by the tax paying minority, there is no hope that the voters (Who will ALWAYS vote in their own self interest) will vote to correct the problem.
That is the basic flaw of any democratic form of government- the voters will always vote themselves money from the public treasury.
The problems will get worse as the government begins to realize that the party is over. No government goes down quietly, there will be more and more draconian measures to "fix" the problem, until we are in a dictatorship. Then, the economy will collapse, and things will get even worse. Every civilization in history has gone the same route, and we will be no exception.
Want to see where we are headed? Watch Russia and Great Briton. They are a few years ahead of us on the path.
That is the basic flaw of any democratic form of government- the voters will always vote themselves money from the public treasury.
The problems will get worse as the government begins to realize that the party is over. No government goes down quietly, there will be more and more draconian measures to "fix" the problem, until we are in a dictatorship. Then, the economy will collapse, and things will get even worse. Every civilization in history has gone the same route, and we will be no exception.
Want to see where we are headed? Watch Russia and Great Briton. They are a few years ahead of us on the path.
wncchester
New member
A statement accorded to an old Greek, and several others, says that "Democracy cannot live longer than it takes for the public to realize they can vote benefits for themselves from the common treasury."
Liberals learned they can legally buy votes with "New Deal" tax money in the 30s and have expanded it ever since. Now Hillary wants to promise $5K at birth to everyone, increasing the base amount as an "interest" dividend until the "owner" needs it, then the tax man would take it from the rest of us. That "benefit" would be the last step in giving everyone a spot at the public feeding trough, it would insure an eternal voter base for liberal's ever increasing tax give-aways in exchange for them staying in power. The combined weight of present give-aways is already strangling our economy, her new proposal would accelerate the present decline in our world position.
Less than half of us pay more than trivial IRS taxes now. When a marjority of the public gets gov. benefits AND doesn't pay any (seen) taxes, we are doomed as a free nation, we will be effectively socialist. Socialism can't survive with a free people, it requires a dictatorship to force people to do what the govenment decides must be done, and when and where it's done.
So many of our people are blissfully ignorant of economic principles, as well as most other things, I fear we have already passed the turning point.
Liberals learned they can legally buy votes with "New Deal" tax money in the 30s and have expanded it ever since. Now Hillary wants to promise $5K at birth to everyone, increasing the base amount as an "interest" dividend until the "owner" needs it, then the tax man would take it from the rest of us. That "benefit" would be the last step in giving everyone a spot at the public feeding trough, it would insure an eternal voter base for liberal's ever increasing tax give-aways in exchange for them staying in power. The combined weight of present give-aways is already strangling our economy, her new proposal would accelerate the present decline in our world position.
Less than half of us pay more than trivial IRS taxes now. When a marjority of the public gets gov. benefits AND doesn't pay any (seen) taxes, we are doomed as a free nation, we will be effectively socialist. Socialism can't survive with a free people, it requires a dictatorship to force people to do what the govenment decides must be done, and when and where it's done.
So many of our people are blissfully ignorant of economic principles, as well as most other things, I fear we have already passed the turning point.
Wildalaska
Moderator
Damn, and I just put in the papers to change my name to Heliogabalus
WildowellbacktoaugeringAlaska TM