When They Say Yard, do They Mean Feet?

zeromeow

New member
I read various range reports and they say stuff like getting 1 inch groups at 25 yards. And they even show a picture of their target and it's like grouped at the bull's eye.

25 yards is 75 feet away. That is pretty far. I can't even see the bull's eye that far away. Is this a shooting range term to replace yard when they mean feet?

Even at the range, some dude said he was gonna shoot at 50 yards and he brought it to 50' instead.
 
25 yards is a standard distance for testing handgun accuracy. To group inside of 1" at 25 yards requires a well built handgun, but is not so uncommon as to be unbelievable. Being able to shoot that well off hand and not from a rest however requires a very good shot.

Yards are yards, feet are feet in shooting.

Try shooting a handgun at 100 yards- now that's a challenge, but many shooters are able to get solid hits at even that yardage and beyond.
 
I think some do make that mistake. Of course there are people that can shoot insanely small groups at 25 yards. I'm not one of them. I'm not even sure any of my handguns or reloads are capable of 1" at 25 yards from a machine rest.
 
As mentioned above, 25 yards is pretty much the standard for judging a pistol's accuracy.

still, it does seem that there exist plently of people that claim to get 1" groups at 25 yards all the time. I would reckon that few of them do regularly with witnesses though...

I have a few pistols that can do 1" groups from a rest, but offhand is another story completely..
 
I was grouping a 22 target pistol at one inch at 11 yards the other day, off-hand. Best I've ever shot, that thing was really working for me for three or four mags, then I got sloppy

I'm sure if I used a bench rest, I could group that pistol well at 25 yards, too

I think some folks neglect to mention the bench rest during their reports ;)
 
25 yards/75 feet a long ways? You're kidding right? "One" of my shooting areas consist of my deck and a dead tree 20 yards away. Hitting a 2" resetting target offhand at that range is becoming increasingly boring with my 22/45.

I sighted in my .357 at 50 yards for deer season. My one group at 50 yards after initial sight in was a 1.25", 3 shot group using a rest. Only time I have fired it from a bench.

Lord help the man that thinks 25 yards is a long ways!
 
It did seem like a long ways to my failing eyes before lasik too, not being able to see the bullseye at 25 yds...I realized that you dont have to be able to see the bulls eye you just have to be able to hold to the same sight picture!

Thats how them guys shoot those groups all the time at llong handgun range (and me occassionally:o)
 
Ocassionally I shoot with a LEO friend of mine. In those sessions, we always manage to get in some practice at 50 and 60 yards with our normal carry and duty pistols. We can both hit a normal sillohette target 10 out of 10 at that range. We don't get 2" groups but most shots hit center of mass. Like anything else, it just takes dedicated practice.
 
The important thing to remember with distance shooting too, . . . the better you are out there, . . . the more precise you will be in close.

I don't know at this very moment how each of my handguns shoots at 100 yds, . . . but ask me in a couple of months and I probably will. It's one of my 2009 goals.

May God bless,
Dwight
 
I've always considered 25 yards as the minimum distance. It's really not that far. Handguns take quite a bit of practice to be consistent with. Rifles are about 3 times easier. My revolvers all will shoot 1.5" or better groups at 25 yards.
My .44 Dan Wesson is sighted for 50 yards. I had another which was sighted in at 100 yards. In silhouette people shoot handguns with iron sights out to 220 yards or 200 meters. Practice practice practice. Proper form is necessary.
 
I know what the OP means. I've seen targets that guys have drilled the center out of, very small groups, and said it was shot at 25 yards. I know I'm not the best of shots and many people are much better, but that type of shooting offhand is almost unbelievable. We are talking about keeping the sights aligned to within a few thousandths of an inch to get those groups at that distance.

My local range has a contest for a 5-shot offhand slowfire group at 25' (feet) and I know the best targets they have on the wall are not even 1", fairly close though. Any confusion between feet and yards is probably compounded by ranges that do not put units on the range markings (so guys run the target out to the "25"), or electronic target systems where the number you type in corresponds to feet instead of yards.

Anyway, off to practice!
 
Oh, what we have lost by the non-accuracy oriented sports.

About 30 years ago, I went to a Camp Perry style match. This is boring for most of you. The 'rapid' fire is 5 rounds in 10 seconds. You also get 20 seconds to fire 5 shots, etc. Very relaxing compared to more "combat" oriented shooting.

On one stage, the shooter's target had one hole in the X-ring after 5 shots. A competitor didn't buy the "hole-in-one" explanation, even though the hole measured just over .50 caliber and he was using a .38. A few moments later all returned to the shooting line and the questioned shooter fired two shots. Using binoculars there again was a single hole in the target.... but this time, the scotch-tape over the hole had been broken. The shooter was using a 6" S&W K-38 and obviously knew what he was doing.

Shooting at 25 yards is not that far away in practical terms. Go measure it off sometime. Start at your front door and try to guess how far away it is. Then measure it off. In some suburban homes built in the 50's and 60's, you'll be lucky to reach the curb.
 
This may offend some members' claims and I'm not singling anyone out:

When I hear people say they just bought a handgun and claims to shoot in the "X" ring as you state, I observe two key items. What gun is it specifically? What sights are installed? If it's something like a long barreled revolver with sights designed for targets at that distance I give the benefit of the doubt. If it's a Kimber Ultra Carry II with stock sights, I bite my tongue (and fingers for that matter) quite hard to resist the giant urge to post "Malarky!". I don't buy it one single bit.

I've heard wwwaaaaaayyyyyy too many fish stories in my lifetime. In my 35 years on this planet, I've yet to see the same results with my own two eyes if I call out the embellisher. It's always the same old crap. "I'm having an off day." "My gun has new sights and I'm still getting used to them". Whatever.:rolleyes:

And another thing: How can anyone make such a claim that they can shoot their service duty gun 1" groups at 25 yards when your typical gun magazine contributer usually doesn't get much better than 1.5 to 3 inch groups with an assorted selection of factory ammo using a bench rest?
 
Okay, bench rest I can somewhat believe. But here is another thing: I've been going to ranges almost every week for the past couple of months. I have NEVER seen anyone shoot at 25 yards (except for one dude who put up to 50 feet--only 16 yards). They all shoot from 10-30 feet. So I'm still wondering if people are mistaking yards for feet. If many people are claiming small groups at 25 yards, why am I not seeing people shoot at 25 yards? Heck, nobody is even shooting at 15 yards which is suppose to be very short distance for a lot of shooters in the internet.
 
I have NEVER seen anyone shoot at 25 yards

Either you need to look harder, or you need to find a range where real shooters go.

I shoot every handgun I own at least some at 25 yards every time I go to the range. I feel that precision and accuracy should be attainable at 25 yards as a MINIMUM to be a responsible concealed carrier, plus it's fun to challenge myself a bit (well, its something of a challenge with some of my SD guns, it's a piece of cake with my dedicated target guns).

It drives me nuts that the statistic about most self-defense shootings occurring within 7 yards has become so ubiquitous, as, as far as I can tell, this has given countless shooters a perceived license to be sloppy and only practice out to such a pitiful distance. There's not a <25ft group on this planet that can impress me, as I feel any responsible gun owner should be able to tear up the X ring with boring regularity at that distance. It's really not difficult if you excercise proper discipline and demand excellence from yourself.

I can't speak for everyone else, but when I say "Yard", I damn well mean YARD.

Oh, and the only handgun I've got that'll do 1" at 25yds is my S&W 6" barrel 617-1, and I can only do that from a bench.
 
Tuttle8 said:
When I hear people say they just bought a handgun and claims to shoot in the "X" ring as you state, I observe two key items. What gun is it specifically? What sights are installed? If it's something like a long barreled revolver with sights designed for targets at that distance I give the benefit of the doubt. If it's a Kimber Ultra Carry II with stock sights, I bite my tongue (and fingers for that matter) quite hard to resist the giant urge to post "Malarky!". I don't buy it one single bit.
Most people today are focused on the 7-10 yard shooting for personal defense. This has somehow become the gospel for shooting standards. Figure a typical traffic lane is 11-ft wide. A pair of them is 22-ft or just about 7.5 yards. Add 5-6 feet for gutters & curbs and guess what? You're at 30-ft or 10 yards. Shouldn't you be able to shoot accurately across the street? A 4-lane road will be about 16-18 yards curb-to-curb. Add 21 feet (7 yards) from curb to front door and you have 25 yards.

And people complain that the cops can't shoot! What was the average distance in the Hollywood shootout? About 50 yards roughly. There's an old adage about those who live in glass houses... :rolleyes:

The 25 yard shooting skills were required when I went through both L.E. college classes and at the police academy. I even had the sights marked for the 148gr HBWC loads and my 125g JHP loads.

No... I couldn't make 1" groups at 25 yards. Best I did was 1-5/8" at 25 yards, prone, one day when I just didn't allow myself to feel pressured. (Shooting prone with glasses is a good way to strain your neck BTW).

But one student challenged the instructor who said all shots should be in the x-ring of the B-27 at 25 yards. He proceeded to shoot three targets, standing, kneeling and prone. All three had six shot groups that measured about 1-inch...right on top of the x-ring. His S&W Model 28 was a six-inch versus the 4-inch specimen I was using at the time.

At 25 yards, if your standing two-handed groups are under 2-inches, that's good shooting. If you keep them under 1.75 inches, that's very good shooting. Anything under 1.5" is excellent shooting by almost any standard.

When we shot PPC years ago, several companies marketed replacement centers for the B-27 silhoutte target. It was often easier than pasting the huge hole in the middle of the target. :D

PPC consisted of a 60-round course of fire:
Stage 1: 7 yard line: 12 rounds in 20 seconds w/reload.
Stage 2: 25 yard line: 90 seconds to complete:
............................... 6 Rounds kneeling
............................... 6 Rounds strong hand/barricade position.
............................... 6 Rounds weak hand/barricade position.
Stage 3: 25 yard line: 6 rounds in 12 seconds

Stage 4: 50/75 yards line*: 24 rounds/165 seconds:
................................ 6 rounds from seated position
................................ 6 rounds from prone position
................................ 6 rounds weak hand barricade
................................ 6 rounds strong hand barricade

All but stage 4 had to be fired double-action. Stage 4 could be fired double or single action. Guns were loaded, holstered and retention devices snapped.

The modified PPC for short ranges (50 yards) allowed for a new stage at 15 yards - 12 rounds/30 seconds with reload. In exchange, the long range barricade postions were eliminated to keep the round-count to 60 rounds.

If you're using a semi-auto, load only six rounds and try to pace your shots so you have ~3 seconds to reload. At 7 and 15 yards, all of your shots should easily be within the 9-ring. Focus on the sights...the sights...the sights. At 25 yards give yourself five seconds per shot. Focus on the sights and squeeeeze the trigger. Don't rush it. Plenty of time. After working on it, you'll be amazed at how accurate you can be.

I shot in the low 590's (out of 600) and was not competitive with the serious shooters. That's shooting at the 96-97% level and placing somewhere around 16th!
 
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I know that it can be hard to believe, shooting a small group at 25 and even 50 yards.

But it is done--more often than you might imagine. Here's an eye-opener for you: Look up some Conventional Pistol (Outdoor) matches in your area. Next time one is scheduled, show up and watch. Specifically, mention why you are there to the person calling the line. Then, ask them to point out a High Master or even Master shooter. Then, when they put the targets out for Timed and Rapid fire, go stand behind them and watch. I guarantee you'll see the majority of those two, five shot strings within a 1 inch group.

As for me, I'm still an Expert, a few points shy of breaking into Master Class. My problem is slow fire at 50 yards. Timed and rapid? I own it! My average score in timed is a 99, with at least 6 of those in the X ring--1.65 inches in diameter. Average for rapid is 98, with 4 to 6 in the X. And, I shoot 100's quite often.

Point of observation--remember, this is done with ONE hand.
 
yards

Outdoors the standard distances for a Bullseye match are 25 yards for the sustained fire stages and 50 yards for the precision stage.
About handgun/shooter accuracy -
If you have the time some day, visit the shooting range at West Point MA in New York. Walk in the door and look to the left, where the corrodor to the locker rooms begins. Unless it's been moved, you will see a framed target there. It has ten .45 cal bullet holes in it - all in the 1.6" diameter X-ring. The target was shot offhand (one hand, unsupported) at 50 yards.
Pete
 
More to the point, look at 25 and 50 yards.

Look how small the B-27 Silhouette looks at 50 yards.


http://www.youtube.com/v/WxwZqUnWdho&hl=en&fs=1


At 50, the target takes up my whole front sight, and my glass's were fogging do to the 110-115F* temps outside making me sweat.

I also have me doing some 25 yard shootings on Youtube.com

All with my little snubby S&W 638 1 7/8th" barrel, with the terrible sights.

And for the people that can do 1" groups, it's not that hard to get a digital camera and post them on Youtube.com, it's free and easy.
 
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I'm no great shot and never have been but I used to enjoy shooting at 25 yards the most. It was the greatest challenge, at least at this indoor range. It was a lot easier when the target was holding still, too. But I agree with the previous poster who pointed out that, outside, 25 yards isn't that far. Stand in the middle of a big field with no trees nearby and 25 yards is no great distance at all. Maybe that's why pistols are relatively unimportant to the military.
 
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