When justice fails
- Thread starter Capt. Charlie
- Start date
jburtonpdx
New member
If you are talking about my daughter, I dont believe it would be criminal. If it were your daughter, I would not consider it criminal for you to act either.
Sure the overly politically correct society we live in may call it criminal, fine I will answer to the law of the land for my actions.
Does not change what I believe to be the correct and right thing. The law is not perfect and is sometimes not the best answer.
Sort of takes the wind out of my signature though....
I think the deterrance thing could be another thread since I don't think prison is much of a deterrance from reading I have done. It is something to be avoided, but it sure as heck does not scare the criminals into getting honest jobs instead of being criminals.
As far as the original question, I bet that mom has thought of what this creep did to her daughter almost every day since it happened.
As soon as she saw the creep I bet it came boiling up and when he opened his mouth he sealed his fate.
One father I know would live happily in prison for the rest of his life if he could do something similar to the man who attacked his daughter. He has seen the change in his daughter and she has to live with what happened for the rest of his life. The guy who attacked her did some time and probation and what not but basically he just lost some time in the free world and is done with his punishment.
I won't say this should become a death wish movie series, but I sure the heck would not have bothered to even pick up the mother. I probably would have sent someone to tell her there would be no need to hide.
When the guy was doing the initial attack it would have been ok if the daughter had killed her attacker then. She would have been protecting herself.
As far as the original question, I bet that mom has thought of what this creep did to her daughter almost every day since it happened.
As soon as she saw the creep I bet it came boiling up and when he opened his mouth he sealed his fate.
One father I know would live happily in prison for the rest of his life if he could do something similar to the man who attacked his daughter. He has seen the change in his daughter and she has to live with what happened for the rest of his life. The guy who attacked her did some time and probation and what not but basically he just lost some time in the free world and is done with his punishment.
I won't say this should become a death wish movie series, but I sure the heck would not have bothered to even pick up the mother. I probably would have sent someone to tell her there would be no need to hide.
When the guy was doing the initial attack it would have been ok if the daughter had killed her attacker then. She would have been protecting herself.
you go looking for JUSTICE, that's what you'll find...JUST US
The thread seems to be going in an appropriate direction, with those siding with either JUSTICE or LAW. It seems to me, that laws are not necessarily just. They are in place to keep the people in line. Ever read Machiavelli's The Prince? It is not entirely just, nor is it entirely evil. It's what's necessary.
XB posted: Society needs those who will cry for justice in the face of those who officially render it.
VERY well put. I applaud you, XB. It is EMOTION that demands this cry for justice. Emotion is, like everything else, neutral. How you use it determines good or bad. Cries for justice present an opportunity for change. Laws, lives, civilizations are changed this way. There MUST be outraged cries for justice, or injustice will prevail.
The thread seems to be going in an appropriate direction, with those siding with either JUSTICE or LAW. It seems to me, that laws are not necessarily just. They are in place to keep the people in line. Ever read Machiavelli's The Prince? It is not entirely just, nor is it entirely evil. It's what's necessary.
XB posted: Society needs those who will cry for justice in the face of those who officially render it.
VERY well put. I applaud you, XB. It is EMOTION that demands this cry for justice. Emotion is, like everything else, neutral. How you use it determines good or bad. Cries for justice present an opportunity for change. Laws, lives, civilizations are changed this way. There MUST be outraged cries for justice, or injustice will prevail.
as for the original, what if it was your daughter question: Rape to me is quite possibly one of the worst offences man has devised. It is animalistic, though it is a HUMAN trait (though I've heard that alpha-male monkeys do this to lesser males to establish dominance, but, no malice involved). For a man to voluntarily give up his humanity like this, he deserves a type of justice for which no law is written.
Nobody here seems to be advocating vigilantism, nor do I condone it. But...until I miraculously gain absolute executive power (i.e. Thanos' Infinity Gauntlet or something equally proposterous), EVERBODY can and will do as they wish. I may not agree with your position, but I'll defend your right to it.
I would have given the woman some jail time, some probation. I wouldn't have congratulated her or given her a medal. She did break a LAW, and must be punished. However, like Blackmind said, she is (was) a threat only to the rapist, while the rapist was a threat to society.
Sorry for all the "justices" in my posts...I can't think of a word equally apt.
--Severian, who tries very hard not to post
Nobody here seems to be advocating vigilantism, nor do I condone it. But...until I miraculously gain absolute executive power (i.e. Thanos' Infinity Gauntlet or something equally proposterous), EVERBODY can and will do as they wish. I may not agree with your position, but I'll defend your right to it.
I would have given the woman some jail time, some probation. I wouldn't have congratulated her or given her a medal. She did break a LAW, and must be punished. However, like Blackmind said, she is (was) a threat only to the rapist, while the rapist was a threat to society.
Sorry for all the "justices" in my posts...I can't think of a word equally apt.
--Severian, who tries very hard not to post
progunner1957
Moderator
Thank God we're not barbaric here in Amerika
That's right, wer'e not barbaric. We give rapists, murderers, child molesters, drug dealers, pimps and other assorted predators every opportunity to get off scot-free, minimize their punishment via plea bargain, be set free from prison at the earliest possible date and continue to brutalize and victimize the innocent.
IMO, that is barbaric.
That's right, wer'e not barbaric. We give rapists, murderers, child molesters, drug dealers, pimps and other assorted predators every opportunity to get off scot-free, minimize their punishment via plea bargain, be set free from prison at the earliest possible date and continue to brutalize and victimize the innocent.
IMO, that is barbaric.
dave_in_delaware
New member
I haven't read all the posts, but here are my thoughts...
I have 2 daughters, and I can't imagine what I'd *want to* do to the guy who hurt them that way.
That said, I wouldn't have killed him, or done anything against the law. What good am I to my daughters if I'm in jail WITH the guy who hurt them?? The mother should have thought before she let her emotions run amuck. Setting a man on fire and killing him was against the law last I checked, whether it seems a justified retaliation or not.
Did you all think that a rapist wanted the 3 day pass to go and apologize to the mother and ask forgiveness? Please, don't make me laugh.
Why would a sex offender be given the priviledge of 3 days out of jail? Are we rewarding criminals w/ mini-vacations now? He's in jail to be punished! A vacation isn't punishment!
Wouldn't one of the rules of the 3-day vacation (er, leave) be something like "no drugs, weapons, or alcohol in your possession"? Gee, here's a good idea: let a criminal out on a vacation, let him get drunk and commit another violent act. Duh!
Seems like there are some strange laws in London (vacations for convicted rapists). Let's hope our laws protect the victims better than that!
Well, my 2¢. I only hope the girl who was raped is getting help and can move on in her life successfully.
I have 2 daughters, and I can't imagine what I'd *want to* do to the guy who hurt them that way.
That said, I wouldn't have killed him, or done anything against the law. What good am I to my daughters if I'm in jail WITH the guy who hurt them?? The mother should have thought before she let her emotions run amuck. Setting a man on fire and killing him was against the law last I checked, whether it seems a justified retaliation or not.
Did you all think that a rapist wanted the 3 day pass to go and apologize to the mother and ask forgiveness? Please, don't make me laugh.
Why would a sex offender be given the priviledge of 3 days out of jail? Are we rewarding criminals w/ mini-vacations now? He's in jail to be punished! A vacation isn't punishment!
Wouldn't one of the rules of the 3-day vacation (er, leave) be something like "no drugs, weapons, or alcohol in your possession"? Gee, here's a good idea: let a criminal out on a vacation, let him get drunk and commit another violent act. Duh!
Seems like there are some strange laws in London (vacations for convicted rapists). Let's hope our laws protect the victims better than that!
Well, my 2¢. I only hope the girl who was raped is getting help and can move on in her life successfully.
"We give rapists, murderers, child molesters, drug dealers, pimps and other assorted predators every opportunity to get off scot-free, minimize their punishment via plea bargain, be set free from prison at the earliest possible date and continue to brutalize and victimize the innocent."
Its funny how some can complain we have too much gov one minute and not enough the next. Civil liberties and due process apply to all, or none.
Without plea bargains we'd never get anyone convicted, the system couldnt stand the strain of all the cases and citizens are notorious for underfunding courts and corrections. Prisons are at 2 and 3x capacity and no one is in a hurry to have new ones built in their backyard or to pay the tab. If you wanna put somebody in, you'll have to let somebody out....
Its funny how some can complain we have too much gov one minute and not enough the next. Civil liberties and due process apply to all, or none.
Without plea bargains we'd never get anyone convicted, the system couldnt stand the strain of all the cases and citizens are notorious for underfunding courts and corrections. Prisons are at 2 and 3x capacity and no one is in a hurry to have new ones built in their backyard or to pay the tab. If you wanna put somebody in, you'll have to let somebody out....
jburtonpdx
New member
It does not have to be about more government to fix this. It could be about properly appropriating the government that we do have.
For example - Stop putting pot smokers in jail, makes more room for level 3 sex offenders, increase the sentencing to something apropriate, like life with no chance of parole.
That is a sentence that would be close enough to seem as though justice was served - sex offenders life is ruined and gone, child that was raped still has life tainted, so its still not fixed but it is closer.
Point being, in a case like this, our "punishment" is not serving justice - its just not enough. Oh and yes, I have voiced my opinion to my state legislature regarding this issue.