When justice fails

Nietzsche was very eloquent. Did Nietzsche have a daughter? I would have said much the same, until I was given the gift of a precious little girl. Then I understood.
There is a monster in each of us waiting to be awakened with the proper stimulus. To deny this is to deny your humanity and not live and love as fully as you could.
What is the abyss and what is justice is simply a matter of belief systems. Nothing more. Laws are not absolute. They change with geography. There is a higher truth than the laws of man that we must all be accountable to, and be remembered by.

"One should die proudly when it is no longer possible to live proudly."
-- Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche

"As you grow older, you'll find the only things you regret are the things you didn't do."
-- Zachary Scott
 
If we let our emotions govern our actions we risk becoming no better than the criminal.

I've got a daughter.

I spent half my career investigating child sex abuse cases.

I can empathize, but that doesnt mean I can condone her actions.
 
A criminal is defined by laws. Man defines the laws. Thus man defines the criminal. Therefore, man can also define what is not criminal.

Saying that this woman is no better than a man who would rape defile and desecrate a innocent little girl out of hatred, evil, or any other excuse is to ignore the entire point of having a civilized society with laws. Saying such a thing is saying that the society that put Ted Bundy and John Wayne Gacey before God for judgement is as evil as they were.

Laws are only absolute in a totalitarian society.

It is good and well that a man who devotes his life to these kinds of investigations should be able to look at them coldly and clinically. A civilized society needs that.
When a civilized society does the same, humanity has lost civilized society. Society needs those who will cry for justice in the face of those who officially render it.
 
All she accomplished was to lower herself to level of the rapist she seemed to have despised.

Now, she can spend some time locked up, instead of taking care of her family.

12-34hom.
 
All she accomplished was to lower herself to level of the rapist she seemed to have despised.
Click to expand...
As defined by American society, laws and your own bias. Perhaps what she accomplished was to prevent evil from occuring again from this source, and elevating herself to the realm of the watchdog vs the sheep.

Now, she can spend some time locked up, instead of taking care of her family.
Click to expand...
That will depend a lot on the legal system, and the society in which she lives. In many societies, she would walk free.

The idea that American justice applies everywhere is very egocentric and naive.
This occured on Costa Blanco, not in the US.
 
We had a somewhat similar case a few miles south of here. A small town had a drug dealer who managed to enjoy relative safety from the legal system. A young woman snitched him out and he let it be known that he was going to punish her for what she had done.
Her father walked into a bar one night and shot him dead. His defence was that he was protecting his daughter. The jury let him walk.
Other cases come to mind, including the one where a man committed suicide near where I grew up. The sheriff called it suicide though the man's hands were tied behind him.
We elect representatives to make laws. Sometimes they make too many laws and other times they don't make the right laws to fit circumstances. Those who spend their lives enforcing laws naturally feel that all laws should be either obeyed or changed through legislative means. That isn't always possible.
 
XB - any way you want to slice it - it's wrong. Common sense & law should explain it, but for some = apparently not.

If you can justify it in your mind, so be it.

And yes, i hold our legal system up against any other countries. It's not perfect - along with my bias. Seems to have held up for 200+ years written by men who placed a premium on common sense values & liberty for all.

12-34hom
 
"XB - any way you want to slice it - it's wrong."

I suppose not many would argue otherwise, even here. Though I strongly sympathise with the woman, and hope her punishment is not too severe, I cannot excuse her indiscretion.

In the end, I think this points out yet another danger for criminals: the victims may not respond rationally, or even legally.

Tim
 
It's not perfect - along with my bias. Seems to have held up for 200+ years written by men who placed a premium on common sense values & liberty for all.
Click to expand...
Even in our legal system, formed by men who placed a premium on common sense values & liberty for all, a person is judged by a jury of their peers, not by a judge, a king, the media, or an internet forum. From the response among the crowds in Orihuela, it appears that a jury of this mother's peers may feel differently than many here. I can visualize a hung jury with this case in many parts of the US. In Spain, I see acquittal with a jury. That is why our own system of justice is set up with a jury of one's peers. The love and study of law can often blind one to justice.
 
Laws are only absolute in a totalitarian society.
Click to expand...


I like that, very well stated....

For those of you supporting it, would it have been wrong if he said nothing? How about if it was 10 years from now?
Click to expand...

Yes, It was "wrong"...by a certain standard. That is not the standard I live by though. I don't condone "street justice", I don't know what I would do if something ever happened to my daughter.I do know what I would do would be driven by emotion. I would also face the consequences as delivered.....

Does this notion "lower me to the standards of a rapist". NO!
 
For those of you supporting it, would it have been wrong if he said nothing? How about if it was 10 years from now?
Click to expand...

If we are going to throw out what if's, what if he repeated his previous behaviour? I believe everyone deserves a second chance. Anyone who proves they are willing to use it wisely that is. Perhaps that is why there are so many "frequent fliers" in our jails, and prisons.
By his actions he would have shown that he had no intention of adjusting, and learning to live amoung a decent society.

And when justice fails, we still have justice. It just means that it didn't serve us they way we thought it should have.
 
More than a hung jury here, XB. Sometimes, justice prevails here as well. Remember the saga of Francine Hughes in 1977? She was the Michigan housewife that suffered years of abuse at the hands of her husband. While he slept, she doused him with gasoline and set him afire. He died as well. A jury of her peers found her not guilty. The award winning film, "The Burning Bed" was based on this incident.

http://www.galactosemia.com/discussion/messages/16682.html
 
Last edited:
They are both idiots..

He should not have been allowed to return and taunt her mother.

She should be jailed for killing him. He didnt kill her daughter so he didnt deserve to die for what he did.

He broke the law and was sentenced..she broke the law and should be sentenced as well..

Its all about levels of vengence. I dont think he deserved to die...but perpahs beaten till he was crippled with baseball bats then marinated in some acid for abit might be fitting...

But, it wasnt my daughter and I wasnt there. So my opinion doesnt count..I guess it comes down to the following..

either as a society you have laws and choose to live by them..or you dont..
 
She should go to jail.

Yes, what he did was wrong, horribly, terribly wrong.

But seriously, was lighting him on fire the answer?? What did that do? Yeah, took him off the streets, but the law was doing it's thing with jailing him for almost a decade.

He taunted her, not threatened her. She was not protecting her daughter, it was blind vengance, and vengance doesn't equal justice.

So let's see what mom actually accomplised:

Killed a man that wasn't posing an immediate threat. Everyone here would say that's unjustified.

Now she'll be properly tried and her daughter won't have a mother anymore. Wow. Great job mom. Ask your daughter in a year what she would rather have had you do... as you rot in jail or are strapped to the chair.

Once again, the guy was scum. But what mom did was NOT justifiable, and NOT benificial to her daughter.

Disclaimer: don't have kids, but can see how somebody would want to do that. But you know what, sometimes I want to break the law or kill a criminal, but I don't.
 
c'mon guys it is so simple.

she murdured the guy with no just cause.

he was doing his time now she can do hers.

say she laughs about what she has done and one of the guy's relatives kills her. is that okay with some of you guys also? fair is fair, ain't it.
 
Maybe, just maybe - the rapist should have been smart enough to keep his mouth shut.

Quite frankly, I can't fault the woman, other than to say that she got a bit carried away. IMHO, rape is a crime that should be punished by a cup of gasoline being poured in the crotch of the rapist and then lighted. If the rape victim was your wife, girlfriend, sister, mother, son or daughter - you just might agree.

Call me crazy if you wish, but I'll wager that rapes would be less frequent. For anyone who doesn't want "The Little Duke" torched, it is really quite simple: Don't go around raping women/children/men.
 
This is a good time to ask the question about what is the role of the criminal justice system in deterrence of crime?

Obviously there was inadequate punishment by the State which did not meet the needs of The People. The burning proved that the rapist's punishment did not deter violent retribution.

A civilized nation can't survive if the only justice is found by perpetration of feuds.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top