When is it okay to try and buy a gun someone is selling at a gun store?

Sure. But the questions is not weather or not it is okay for others to hear the conversation, the question is weather or not it is okay for others to use information garnered from overhearing the conversation to go secure a good deal for themselves at the cost of the gun store no longer having a chance the gun will come back in the store (again, only assuming in this case the customer said they will thnk about it, not if the customer outright says No).

I concede the point and understand we are not going to meet eye to eye on the entire "I'll think about it" and following out of the store, debate.

Moving on to the second part of the original conversation: While a deal is in progress between the store and the seller, is it okay for others to drop hints and say things like "oh I want that gun" or saying "wow" when an offer is made in the hopes the seller will be coaxed into heading out the door with you before accepting the dealer's offer?
 
Just don't try to buy a gun in a LGS. If you want the gun and the guy leaves without selling it, follow him and see if you can get together. I come from a area if you were to offer to buy a gun in someones store, they would throw you out on your butt.

There are LGS that run a scam by having a guy that looks like he's looking for guns but he really works for the store. When someone comes in to sell a gun the owner offers a very low price making sure this other guy knows the price, if the guy turns the price down and leaves the other guy follows and offers $25 bucks more, they get a lot of guns cheap. I used to go in the store quite a bit and got to know the owner and he freely told me about what they did and bragged about it, I stopped going around there.
 
IMO, "I'll think about it" is a polite "No." You and your store did not make an offer that the seller wanted to accept, and the seller is withdrawing from further negotiations. When you say that some people come back, I believe you, but I doubt that many of them do so without seeing if they can get a higher price somewhere else.

It is proper for anyone to make an offer at any time, so long as they were not made aware of the firearm due to the efforts of the gun store (IE, the gun store paying rent and running a facility).

Is it proper for a potential buyer to be barred from bidding on a gun because he was in the store in the moment that you turned away the seller?

While a deal is in progress between the store and the seller, is it okay for others to drop hints and say things like "oh I want that gun" or saying "wow" when an offer is made in the hopes the seller will be coaxed into heading out the door with you before accepting the dealer's offer?

Oh, heck no. That is just being rude, interjecting oneself into someone else's business.
 
Moving on to the second part of the original conversation: While a deal is in progress between the store and the seller, is it okay for others to drop hints and say things like "oh I want that gun" or saying "wow" when an offer is made in the hopes the seller will be coaxed into heading out the door with you before accepting the dealer's offer?

No that's not cool at all but then again that's a subjective moral issue really . Is there any laws that gives a store owner first rights to a customers item he wants to sell ??

I'd like to touch a bit more on how the third guy comes to find the info . There has to be thousands of scenarios where one finds out info while discussing or over hearing something with an owner or while on/in there business and you take that info to better your life in some way with out actually buying from that store . Do you owe everyone you've ever learned something from . Maybe a thanks but that's about it . Could you imagine if you could not benefit in any way from anything you did not learn completely on your own ? Think about it , It's actually mind blowing when you think of all the things you've learned just by happen stance .

I understand the frustration on the businesses part but is that with the third guy in , or really being upset with your selves for letting the sell go and projecting your frustration on to others ?

Where does it stop . Lets say me and a buddy are just walking into your store as another customer is walking out . I say to my buddy where I saw a great deal on something I'm going to buy next after this stop . The guy walking out the door over heard me say that and goes and buys the last one . Was it unfair to me for him to buy the last one since he did not find the deal on his own . Come to think about it if "your" store was not there are paths would never have passed . hmm so now That makes your store at fault why I did not get to buy what I was always going to buy in the first place ???? I just stopped at your store because it was on the way .

Maybe there is something to the fraise "right place right time" .
 
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There is no law that stops you from making an offer on a gun to a person in a gun store but you may be asked to leave and not come back by the person running the store.
 
"No that's not cool at all but then again that's a subjective moral issue really . Is there any laws that gives a store owner first rights to a customers item he wants to sell ??"

No, no law. But that is why I am posing it as a moral question as opposed to a legal question.

"I'd like to touch a bit more on how the third guy comes to find the info . There has to be thousands of scenarios where one finds out info while discussing or over hearing something with an owner or while on/in there business and you take that info to better your life in some way with out actually buying from that store."

I actually can't think of one. Honestly, I can't think of things that I have learned that I did not pay to learn (i.e. in school) or was otherwise learned and used by me to better my life at the detriment of another. I mean, I can't think of an example, I'm not trying to be stubborn. Maybe you can give me an example from your life.

"Do you owe everyone you've ever learned something from . Maybe a thanks but that's about it."

Anything I have learned (to my recollection) was paid for (school) or learned to benefit another (on the site of a job that I have to perform for boss or employer). I learn things online for free, I guess, but usually people publishing info such as on this forums or on youtube are paid by advertisers, and they publish their content wanting users to consume it, otherwise they would charge subscription fees (but we are splitting hairs). So no, I don't think I have taken knowledge and used it to upper-hand the person I learned it from, such as in the case I presented.

"Could you imagine if you could not benefit in any way from anything you did not learn completely on your own ? Think about it , It's actually mind blowing when you think of all the things you've learned just by happen stance ."

Again, per my examples above, I think you are over-expanding what I am saying. Learning things in school or in the workplace or online or in a magazine or book? Not at all the same as going into another person's place of business, eves dropping on a deal between the dealer and the customer and then later using that information against the dealer to get the gun.

"I understand the frustration on the businesses part but is that with the third guy in , or really being upset with your selves for letting the sell go and projecting your frustration on to others ?"

It is the purpose of a dealer to buy as low as possible and sell as high as possible. Gun dealers, for the most part, compete with eachother and they all share the same limitations - guns need to be bought low enough to ensure reasonable profit. Private buyers don't have to worry about this. Are you telling me that a dealer should make an offer that competes with a potential private buyer's offer, which will generally be close to or at retail? How is a dealer to be that competitive and make money? Especially when the "competitors" are the dealer's own customers in his own store! Again, I think a huge disconnect is that not many people here have owned or worked in a gun store (or any business that depends on used goods for resale).

"Where does it stop . Lets say me and a buddy are just walking into your store as another customer is walking out . I say to my buddy where I saw a great deal on something I'm going to buy next after this stop . The guy walking out the door over heard me say that and goes and buys the last one . Was it unfair to me for him to buy the last one since he did not find the deal on his own."

That is a good ethical dilemma in itself but the difference is, you did not pay for or provide the store you gave the advice in or the store that has the gun on sale. Your livelihood is not hurt by it, you just missed out on a good deal. I will say, if someone overhears that and thinks "hell, I'll go buy it before this guy does" and he learned about it from you, he is still rude, IMO.

"Come to think about it if "your" store was not there are paths would never have passed . hmm so now That makes your store at fault why I did not get to buy what I was always going to buy in the first place ???? I just stopped at your store because it was on the way."

This is a huge stretch to make a point in my opinion. You do not pay anything to keep the store I work in operational, so my store owes you nothing and has no moral obligation to you (other than good customer service and ensuring our products don't hurt or kill you).

Maybe there is something to the fraise "right place right time".

yes, like finding a $20.00 bill on the street, or being the 100th customer at a store that gives you a prize for being the 100th customer... Again...Semantics...

But honestly, we are not going to see eye-to-eye on this. Totally fine we have a difference in opinion and I think that is all rooted in which side of the counter you and I stand on. Thanks again!
 
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Anyway, also, this kind of went off on a tangent. What I said earlier in one of my first posts is that we are having a problem with people hanging around for the purpose of finding these deals. That is really the root of all of this. If it happens here or there, then it happens - such is life. But what about the "gun store flies" that hang around waiting for the opportunity?
 
Brick and mortar store exists to bring in customers.

That seller may say he wants to think about it.

The seller wouldn't have been there if not for the brick and mortar place.

Of course as an "outsider" you can bid more. You don't have the
overhead nor the legal constraints of the store owner. So go ahead,
buy behind his back.

And then go back and linger for the next prospect.

It's your entitlement.
 
Anyway, also, this kind of went off on a tangent. What I said earlier in one of my first posts is that we are having a problem with people hanging around for the purpose of finding these deals.

Yeah that's not cool either . Sounds like the owner needs to start monitoring his security cams to identify these people and kick them out and contact either the property owners or the police about people hanging out in the parking lot loitering .

If this is truly an issue often . You might want to think about a root cause . Is that another dealer out there trying to buy your rejects ( maybe a garage FFL guy ) looking to steal you customers ? Are you guys known for low balling people so word has got around lots of unhappy customers come out of your store looking to sell there firearms ?
 
Yea, unfortunately, they are actually in the store. They hang around and chitchat with eachother or the employees. That is why I pose the ethical question tho: are they doing anything wrong by following customers out into the parking lot and "cleaning up" the "i'll think about its". If they arent, then we would morally be in the wrong by kicking them out or banning them from coming in. But it is effectively cutting down our "used gun" supply pretty significantly.

"If this is truly an issue often . You might want to think about a root cause . Is that another dealer out there trying to buy your rejects ( maybe a garage FFL guy ) looking to steal you customers ? Are you guys known for low balling people so word has got around lots of unhappy customers come out of your store looking to sell there firearms ? "

I doubt its another dealer. It is guys that have been coming in for years and have caught wind all the used guns we get in. We get alot. This week alone we have bought maybe 10 and maybe 3 have walked out. I think it is because we get so many used guns in that people hang around. We are in a very busy shopping center with a grocery store in it so we get tons of traffic driving by us, so we get alot of the "my husband just died" or "I inherited this collection" in the store. I also think our offers are fair as we get 30-40% of customers back who leave saying they want to think about it. So we get a good share from people. Often the answer is "yes" from the customer on our first offer. I think if the "word around town" was we lowball, then I don't think we would get so many sellers in (and repeat sellers at that). Again, I think people are attracted by the sheer volume that we get in and the fact that the owner has not kicked any of them out yet.

They are "sheep in wolves clothing" they have been coming in for years and act like our best friends. We know them by name and hell we even know their kids names and their favorite colors we see them so often. They hardly buy anything and are quick to jump on deals that come in the door. By telling them to no longer come in would be like kicking out someone we have a long-standing relationship with (which I think they are taking advantage of). Man, its a tough business lol.
 
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If you have to just lie to them . Tell them your boss has reviewed the security tapes and believes they are actively trying to undermine his business . You must stop these activities or be banned from the store . Or have the boss do it , and really your not lying because you either know this or strongly believe this to be true . If this is truly effecting sales , something has to be done about it .
 
A little off topic,but still on respecting the shop owner's territory.I'm a customer.Another guy comes in with a 10-22 with a scope base screwed on.
He says the firing pin is froze up.I have a pretty good idea of what the problem is. I walk away. I go to another part of the store and butt out.

When applying Loctite its best to use a match stick or toothpick or something. Straight from the tube can get you a "bloop" of too much Loctite. That's a hint.

I did talk with the smith about it after there was no customer in the store.
Other customers have overheard conversations between this smith and myself.
Some of them have approached me about "Are you a gunsmith".
I tell them,truthfully,"I am an amateur hobbyist who does my own work. I have no FFL. I cannot lawfully take on gun work. (Close enough to fact)
My smith knows I honor his turf.And,in fact,I have enough projects and problems! I don't take on work.

With this particular LGS owner..if I wanted buying opportunities while around his store,I'd simply have a conversation with him...one on one.
I'd promise never to approach his customer/deal...period. But,if he was sure there would be no deal,I'd be happy if at his discretion,he chose to invite me over,and ask if I was interested. Let the LGS owner be the agent.
 
Metal God: Unfortunately, any confrontation with the customers is up to the boss (the store owner). It is his prerogative. Really, this question came up because lately this has been happening (really within the past 3-4 months) and is getting worse and worse. I have been at the store for 3 years and they have been open for 7. I have been unsure on my thoughts on it. Unfortunately, this has been happening with 4 regulars which have been with the owner for a while, so I feel (just my sense of things) that the owner feels bad banning people he has almost a decade-long relationship with. Just my thoughts, maybe he has his own reasons. But they keep going after people after leaving the store while still contemplating our offer.

One example: Just this week, we had a guy bring in a Desert Eagle .50AE brushed stainless. In the box, 98% condition, 1 magazine. We see them on Gunbroker for $1150-$1250. Owner offers $1,000. Customer straight up said "No". Not "I'll think about it", but "no". Store happened to be empty. We knew he would not get a better offer from our competitors and he didn't, he came back and sold it to us yesterday. Had one of those 4 guys been in, they would have chased him out the door and we would have lost the potential $150-$250 profit. I know this is anecdotal, but take it for what you will.

HiBC :I think you are very respectful and I am sure your gun store appreciates you. We have a couple regulars who are very very respectful in this regard and we invite them into deals ALL THE TIME if we are not interested. If we can get a win out of making a regular happy and letting a new customer sell a gun, then we are letting two happy people leave the store (an old customer and a new one) - just so long as the store is not interested in the gun. Honestly, our respectful regulars are invited into more deals than the "vultures" are. It pays to be respectful - your dealer will notice. In a very rude and inconsiderate world, the respectful customers stick out, at least in our store they do.
 
I remember the largest used gun dealer in our area (probably 2000 used guns at any given time on the racks/in the display cases) kicking people out for being vultures. He also refused to sell an especially desirable gun to a guy, and as the guy was complaining and asking why the dealer said "I remember when someone screws me over, and I haven't forgotten the deal on that SAA you sniped from me last December so NO DICE." Then he turned to me (a good customer, bought a lot of guns and referred a lot of business his way, helped out here and there with minor repairs etc) and offered me the same gun for $150 less. Karma is a bad girl...and I still have that gun 20 years later.
 
RodTheWrench: That is a very good example. That $150.00 has probably been paid back to the dealer 10-fold. For that $150.00 he sent a message to a bad customer, hopefully keeping him from sniping other deals in the future. Also, for that $150.00 he took care of you as a good customer, and here you are speaking his good graces on a public forum (and I am sure you have shared that story with other local buyers in your area who have gone in to see him). He rewarded you as a good customer and I am sure, now, 20 years later you are still a good customer in their store (assuming they are still in business). You are right, karma works in this way and you benefited by being a good customer. You got a good deal on a gun you like AND you get rest easy knowing you are a respectable person. That is the way, in my opinion, business should be done.
 
I think the question changes more than a little bit when you talk about people who don't buy store merchandise but hang out for the purpose of swooping in on these situations. My question to the owner would be, "What are you losing by sending these guys packing?"
 
Not in the store. Period. If I owned a store, I'd ban anyone who did. There is a lot of overhead on a retail store and anyone hanging around to get such deals is trash.

I was once in a store I knew the owner and worker of OK and someone had a lightly used gun with accessories and basically wanted new retail for guns and accessories. Something like $750 for G19 with some extra mags or four mags and two mediocre holsters. Dealer made a reasonable offer and they guy acted entirely insulted. It was clear they weren't going to come close to a deal as the seller had entirely unrealistic expectations. Guy wouldn't just leave either. The way he was carrying on was beginning to annoy me, so I made a reasonable offer somewhere in between their two numbers, but nowhere close to what he as asking, and told him that is what I would pay the dealer if he re-sold it, so he wouldn't offer more than that. He found my offer was equally insulting, and huffed and puffed his way out of the store. I think everyone was happy to be rid of the gun and its owner.
 
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Im with Buck460. If Im in the shop, the deal between the shop and the customer doesn't work and I want the gun Ill talk to the customer OUTSIDE the store. In fact I did this with a gentleman who had a SS Blackhawk in 357 with a matching SS luepold pistol scope on it. Shop lowballed him, he walked, I caught him out side and we made a deal, I even had that same store do the transfer, everbody won.
 
I wouldn't say a word while in the store, except..... in the case of where the gun store is really trying to rip off an ignorant seller, like a widow who does not have the least idea of the value of her late husband's guns and the clerk in the gun store taking advantage of this. I was at a shop a number of years ago that I rarely visited, actually just to pick up some cleaning patches, and a woman came in with what looked like an excellent condition Model 19 S&W. She asked the clerk how much it was worth and his answer was "oh, no one wants those old revolvers any more, but I can give you $25 for it" or similar words. I know it was not my place but I spoke up and just blurted out "that gun is worth several hundred dollars and I hope you don't sell it for $25". She looked stunned and walked out of the store, and the clerk told me that I needed to get out of the store right now and don't come back. I never went back to that store again and it went out of business a few years back.
 
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