When is it okay to try and buy a gun someone is selling at a gun store?

I don't see a lot of pawn shops or LGSs around here making reasonable
offers on guns. It's all very low ball. I understand they have to make a
profit, but it's almost like a bragging point to hammer the seller as hard
as possible, sort of like the 44 story in post #12.(Thank you, fredvon4)

AFAIAC, if the seller walks away, or I can get him to leave the store, without
being too obvious, the store had a chance to offer fair value, and blew it.
At that point, the seller gets more than he would have, and I get a reasonable
discount over full retail, which any shop owner is going to jack it to, no matter
how bad they screwed the seller, in the first place.
 
I have bought 2 guns after the shop owner and seller could not deal. I ask permission to make an offer then went outside and made the deal. The first one went back into the store and bought the rifle he was interested in. The second I got a very good deal on a Remington Rand issued 1911a1
 
Depends on the situation.
Two years ago, I sold a few things to my preferred LGS. That's the only time in recent memory, that I've been involved in one of those situations.

In the process of negotiations, we got hung up on one handgun and its accessories. Joe, the owner, didn't want to pay extra for the spare parts, accessories, or original box. I was, literally, only asking for $15 more for $75 worth of parts, but we were stuck.

The store's resident slob wrestled himself off of his bar stool and came over. (A carry-over from previous ownership, when Joe was an employee of the former pawn shop.)
Through a mouth full of popcorn he squeezed out, "I, uh. I'll give you [$25 more]."
I replied that the offer was for Joe, and that we were still trying to find a way to work it out.
"Umm... [$50 more] if it's off the books."
Joe and I both looked at him with the same expression: "Why does it have to be 'off the books'?"

I responded that any offer made would involve the pistol being turned over to Joe, for at least the transfer, and he waddled back to his stool.

Joe and I came to an agreement, and I walked out the door.
I haven't seen the Mr. Slob since.
 
Shop I part timed at had a formula for buying guns off of customers coming in off the street.

If it was a commonly available gun that can be bought new from a distributor, the offer was 25% less than wholesale. Older guns would depend on if the owner wanted them or not, condition, blue book value, etc. The goal of the shop was to at least make $100 on the sale of most guns.

However, the 1st question asked by the shop to the customer selling the gun was - "How much are you looking for?"


I frequented the shop as younger guy and later worked there. I bought a 45acp 1917 S&W DA Revolver for $450 and about a year later sold it back to the shop for $500. The owner collected them and didn't realize this was one he sold me previously.
 
However, the 1st question asked by the shop to the customer selling the gun was - "How much are you looking for?"
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A smart customer always makes the first move.

Never let the shop take control of negotiations. :D
 
I agree with the others that say don't interrupt the deal in progress , that "IS" bad form . I how ever have no problem following the guy out the door to make an offer regardless of how they left it in the store . Unless the seller was just going to get ID or something . If the seller says I need to think about it , he clearly is not all that happy with the offer . If the salesman lets him leave , then they really must not have wanted the firearm and are taking a chance it will be sold from under them . If he said I'm going to try another place to get a better offer . I don't think there's a bigger green light then that . The seller is clearly looking for a better offer .

I'm in gun stores often and you hear and see many things . Sometimes it's hard to keep quite but you really have to unless something unsafe is going on .
 
tricky9914 said:
I get what you mean about the offer and the "ill think about it" response... I guess my thought is, usually with about 30-40% certainty, the customer will come back because our competitor gun stores wont offer more or don't want it. In this case, when the customer follows them outside, we now have 0% chance the customer will come back, and is is 100% thanks to the store being there and paid for by the owner, that the second customer even knew that gun was there (the two customers would likely have never crossed paths if not for the store being there). So that's the ethical question then I guess. I mean I see both sides which is why its an interesting topic of conversation - just being devil's advocate.
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We all know that a LGS is not going to give anyone the real value of a used gun in cash or in trade. Anytime a person walks away from an offer they are doing so thinking there may be a better offer out there. Those 30-40% that come back just didn't get one, the other 60-70% did. Could be an individual on the street that gave the better offer or the LGS down the street. So when is it appropriate in your opinion, to make an offer, whether you are a individual or another store?
 
Personally, I think it is appropriate for anyone to make an offer, so long as they were not made aware of the firearm due to the efforts of the store. One exception being (and I stated this before) if the gun store and customer will clearly not come to terms. What I mean by that is, if customer says they WILL NOT accept less than X dollar amount, and guns store WILL NOT pay X dollar amount, then there is clearly no deal and anyone is free to step in (even in the store).

For example, we have had a regular in that collects Winchester lever guns, he happened to be in the store when someone brought in a 1901 mfg Model 1892 rechambered to 357. The store owner and customer could not make a deal. The other customer was very polite and stayed out of the conversation and the gun store owner invited him in in saying "well, it does not look like we are going to make a deal, but Gary here is a collector and he may be interested". Gary looked over the gun and bought it. We were happy in that case to let Gary and the seller walk away happy because it was clear the store would not be buying it.

However, if the customer said "I will think your offer over and be back" in my opinion, it would not be appropriate for Gary to step in or follow the customer out the door. Because if it werent for the large sums of money the store owner pays to operate the store, Gary would never know that gun or customer even existed. And if the store has a 30-40% chance the customer will be back, then the gun store is entitled to that chance - the paid for it.

Now, other gun stores making an offer: totally fine. They are also paying money and running an establishment and the customer has the right (and should) shop around. If the customer sells it to a competitor, fine. So long as the competitor is at their own store front paying their own rent. If the seller wants to put it on Gunbroker or Armslist, fine, then the customer is using their own resources and time to find a buyer, not ours.

The fair market is the fair market, but the fair market for others should never be played on the back of another dealer running their own business. They need to do it on their own time and in their own place of business. Again, that is just my opinion and I definitely respect your perspective as well. That is why I am asking the question.
 
... the gun store owner invited him in in saying "well, it does not look like we are going to make a deal, but Gary here is a collector and he may be interested"


Not that this adds anything to the thread but I have had that happen to me. I used to go into a particular gun store all the time: like 3-4 times a week. I bought so much stuff from that guy that he treated me as a VIP. For some reason he seemed to get in several 1903 Colts every year. I never really paid a lot of attention them, but for some reason one day I got interested. I told him, the next time someone comes in with one, hold it for me.

So one day he called me and told me he had a woman in the store that had wanted to sell a 1903 Colt. He said, I could have bought it from her but rather than go through the hassle, I just gave her your number and told her that you would buy it. She called me and I went over and bought it.

I guess that supporting your local gun stores and being a polite customer who realizes that the store owner needs to make a living and all that sometimes pays off. He could have made a few bucks on the deal, but instead just backed out and let me do the deal.
 
One other note: Often times (and it happens in the store often), people will "walk away" from the offer just to see if we will catch them on their way out the door to give them more. This is a very commonly practiced negotiation tactic. I do it myself if I am at a car dealership.

Yes, it is true a customer will not get market or retail value for their gun when they go into a store. That goes without saying; but keep in mind, they are STILL getting value for their loss on the gun. They are getting a quick sale, they don't have to worry about listing it themselves, they don't have to go hunting for a buyer, they get cash that day, they get a safe and gun-friendly establishment to do business in and they know they are selling to someone that is not a felon or otherwise restricted... To many customers, that is well worth the 100-200 dollars they are giving up on their gun by otherwise going about selling it on their own.

The gun store pays alot of money to offer that value - it is not free! It is the same with cars. Now, I understand others may scoff at an offer a dealer makes to a customer, because you would obviously pay more. Your own perception on what a "fair" price should be for the gun does not matter at all while you are on another man's property and his place of business.

The dealer has many things to consider: How quickly will it move? Will it sit in my store for weeks or months? If I have to drop the price to move it, do I have enough room to do so without losing money on it? What is the current market? If I have to sell it at an auction, what will my fees be and how long will i have to wait for the auction to end? How much money do I have available to buy this? If my capital is on loan from the bank how much will I lose in interest while it sits on my shelf? What is the risk someone will scratch or damage it while its in my store? If the gun is defective, how much will I have to pay a gunsmith to fix it (remember, a dealer often does not have time to thoroughly inspect a gun or test fire it while the customer is there, especially if they are busy and problems are usually found after-the-fact).

These are questions a private buyer never has to ask themselves because the gun is going home and in the safe, not being resold to put food on the table. Again, just my $0.02!
 
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At a gun show - as soon as the dealer says "not interested". At a gun store - never while inside the store
 
I would never get in between the LGS and a customer looking to sell or trade in a gun. I would never hang around a LGS looking for a deal like this. I would never follow a customer out of the store and try to negotiate a deal regardless of the gun involved.

But that is just me.
 
As a shop owner-
Inside the shop is my turf. I will make the seller a fair offer that will give them a good value for the gun, but still allow me to make something once I have inspected the firearm (if I sell it, I still have to stand behind it even if it is a used gun). If we decide there will not be a deal today, the seller walks or I turn them away, it's the same. If you want to offer to buy a gun from someone, do it outside my shop. But since I live in a state where a FTF sale has to be done through an FFL and NICS, I will probably see you again soon anyway.
 
Happened to a friend. He was browsing the LGS counter and a guy walked in to sell some old piece. C&R, maybe? But it was a piece that would have little sizzle value, so the owner made an offer that reflected the tepid market. The guy turned down the offer and left.
My friend thought "hey, I always wanted one of those." and followed the guy outside and made an offer that split the difference between the two and walked home with a piece he needed for his collection.
No harm no foul, but I wouldn't do that in the shop. It's someone's shop and they are paying the rent; it's not the local farmer's market or souk where haggling and public participation are expected.
 
A smart customer always makes the first move.

Never let the shop take control of negotiations.
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True - - but - - always keep in mind that the guy at the shop get's into hundreds of negotiations - - every week.
OTOH - the buyer, maybe a couple dozen in their lifetime? (on average).

;)


(P.S. - I do like your style though & agree 100% with what you say about taking control)
 
tricky9914 said:
One other note: Often times (and it happens in the store often), people will "walk away" from the offer just to see if we will catch them on their way out the door to give them more. This is a very commonly practiced negotiation tactic. I do it myself if I am at a car dealership.
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So then do you consider it bad taste if you find a better deal somewhere else after walking out? Of course not, cause now the shoe's on the other foot. Just like not every used car salesman is ethical, not every gun shop owner is Honest John. Many of the best of them will take advantage of someone desperate to sell a gun for cash. Very few will give their best offer first. Just like a car salesman, if a gun shop owner gets upset over every customer that walks away from a sale, they'd soon find something else to do.
 
I don't think you understand what I am saying. No, of course not - its totally fine to go looking for another deal. Like I mentioned in that same post, if the seller wants to go look at another gun shop, fine. If the seller wants to go post in on Gunbroker or Armslist - fine. In both cases, they are not using the store's resources to find a buyer.

My perspective has nothing to do with people walking out of the store plainly saying that they will not accept the offer - in that case I even said, others are more than welcome to step in. My exact point was, if the customer says they are on the fence or thinking about it, then is it okay for others to step in? If the customer is contemplating the offer, then it must be reasonably close to what they were looking to get out of it, right?

There is a difference between going to competitors, or listing it privately, and going in to someone else's business and selling it to the highest bidder.

Also, I am not making any judgements on the seller. In none of my posts did I say the seller was doing anything wrong (unless they are actively walking in the door and announcing "hey I have a gun for sale, who here will give me the most?" The ethical question is with the buyer and that is the question I posed: "Is it ethically fine to follow a seller out of the store when they are still contemplating an offer given by the store"? Also, is it ethically acceptable to drop hints to a seller, while they are negotiating with the store in hopes of getting them to step outside with you?

As far as being the "what's a fair offer" police, in someone's place of business: I said it before and I'll say it again - totally out of place in someone else's business. What a "fair price" is, is totally subjective. There are people who will think that your offer is not fair just because they will offer more. I guess in that regard, a private buyer will always think a dealer's price is "unfair" because a private buyer will always offer more. Regardless, stepping on a dealer's toes in their place of business because you are unhappy with the offer they made is totally unacceptable, even if they offer $5 for a $2000 gun - it does not concern anyone else in the store or give them a right to step in (unless the customer plainly says "no"), now that is obviously an extreme example. If the seller is happy with the price, then they are happy with the price. Again, this is all just my own opinion and I know others will feel differently. If anything else, just take it as a perspective from a guy behind the counter.

Thanks again for responding!
 
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tricky9914 said:
I don't think you understand what I am saying.
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No, I understand what you are saying..... completely. Just don't understand where you draw the line. My line is the door of the store. Your line is no where until the gun owner definitely say's "NO". But does that work the other way? What if someone wanted to buy a gun from the same store, and was unsure they were getting the best deal. Should the the gun shop owner take the gun off the shelf and not sell it to anyone else until and unless on that 30% chance, the customer comes back in and says "I'll take it."? If the gun owner say's "No", than is it okay for someone else to start bargaining with them inside the store? Seems you want the line to be variable and to work in the favor of the store owner, where I like to see my lines defined as to what and when is proper. I agree, the store owner pays the rent and it's his building and his business, but the street belongs to us all. Just like that car salesman, he knows, the minute the customer walks away and hits the street, all bets are off. Expecting the gun owner to not take any other offers until he returns at some point in the future and tells the owner " Definitely No" is pretty shorthsighted. One needs to realize, that once the gun owner walks out the door, his answer is "No".
 
"No, I understand what you are saying..... completely. Just don't understand where you draw the line. My line is the door of the store. Your line is no where until the gun owner definitely say's "NO"."

No, my line is STRICTLY for other customers in the store overhearing the conversation that was made possible by the store provided by the finances of the store owner. Those customers got the advantage of hearing the gun store's offer, they got the advantage of having a gun store to stand in where people bring in guns, and they get the advantage of competing with a dealer who needs to make money on the gun. None of this they paid for. They are taking advantage of a situation they did not pay for.

"But does that work the other way? What if someone wanted to buy a gun from the same store, and was unsure they were getting the best deal. Should the the gun shop owner take the gun off the shelf and not sell it to anyone else until and unless on that 30% chance, the customer comes back in and says "I'll take it."?

No, absolutely not. This comparison is not at all the same representation. The customer asking the gun store to put the gun on "hold" is not paying the bills in the store. That is why typically a gun store will allow the customer to "pay for" the opportunity to hold the gun by putting down a deposit to do so. In this case, the customer is paying for the ability to hold the gun, just like the gun store is paying for the ability to not have other customers step in on their used firearms deals.

"If the gun owner say's "No", than is it okay for someone else to start bargaining with them inside the store?"

I have answered this very clearly in two other posts. YES absolutely, if the customer says: "No, no deal at all" then anyone is free to step in, of course, even inside the store. I have no problem with that. If there is 0% chance the store and customer will make a deal, then their odds are not affected by someone else stepping in.

"Seems you want the line to be variable and to work in the favor of the store owner, where I like to see my lines defined as to what and when is proper."

Again, I have defined exactly when and where is proper. It is proper for anyone to make an offer at any time, so long as they were not made aware of the firearm due to the efforts of the gun store (IE, the gun store paying rent and running a facility). One exception being (as stated above 3 times) if the customer says "No" to the offer, then its fair game even in the store. If someone is in a gun store and a seller says "let me go home and think about it and get back with you" in my opinion, it is not ethically right for another customer in the store to chase them out the door. If they plainly "no" however, then others are free to do what they like. Outside the store in the rest of the world - has no bearing on me. People can do as they like.

I agree, the store owner pays the rent and it's his building and his business, but the street belongs to us all. Just like that car salesman, he knows, the minute the customer walks away and hits the street, all bets are off. Expecting the gun owner to not take any other offers until he returns at some point in the future and tells the owner " Definitely No" is pretty shorthsighted."

Again, completely missing what I am saying. I never said they can't go out into the world and accept other offers. I said plainly the opposite actually. Again, its not a question of what the seller does. If some guy is hanging out on the car lot and a seller brings in a car, and the other guy listens in on the conversation, hears the offer, and then the seller says "ill think about it", now the other customer is armed with information: He knows the car and seller exists, he knows what the seller is likely looking to get out of it. He has info on a seller who is looking for quick turnaround and is obviously okay with losing money to sell it fast. He also knows the dealer's offer. Armed with ALL of that, he can go and effectively try and purchase the car from the seller.. All of those are HUGE advantages and he will likely get the car from the dealership (which means now the dealerships' chances are 0) and he would have NEVER had ANY of those advantages if it werent for the dealership being there and paid for.

"One needs to realize, that once the gun owner walks out the door, his answer is "No"

No, his answer is what he says: If he says No, then its No. If he says: "I'll think about it" then he is thinking about it.

I think we will have to agree to disagree. But I appreciate you chatting with me on this. Great to have a different persepctive
 
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No, my line is STRICTLY for other customers in the store overhearing the conversation that was made possible by the store provided by the finances of the store owner. Those customers got the advantage of hearing the gun store's offer, they got the advantage of having a gun store to stand in where people bring in guns, and they get the advantage of competing with a dealer who needs to make money on the gun. None of this they paid for. They are taking advantage of a situation they did not pay for.
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When you speak in public you have no expectation of privacy . If the store wants to keep negotiations private they need to do just that .
 
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