When do we assist the people of Georgia?

Yes, Virginia, Georgia is largely Islamic.

That is such a profoundly false statement that I am flabbergasted by your utter audacity to make it. Most sources put Georgia's Muslim population at only 11%. Two thirds of the country ( 66% ) is Greek Orthodox.

Have you never seen the Georgian flag? It is perhaps the most Christian flag in the entire world:

ge.gif
 
Georgia rolled their dice and need to deal with the consequences.

Poland and the Czech republic are parts of Nato. So I doubt Russia wants to attack them.

Or we will do what? Seriously. I fully expect Russia to blow the snot out of any missile defense site we establish, killing Pols and Americans in the process and respond with a "So what" and "We are allowed to take any action we feel necessary to ensure our safety." It will be the action which will break NATO because we will NOT respond in kind. Once the smaller nations around Russia see that NATO is a paper tiger we will be out of the force projection business in that part of the world and Russia will be the undisputed supreme power there.

Don't give me any garbage about NATO treaties. There is no way we are going to justify a shooting war with the Russians over their stomping of a missile defense site.
 
I tend to agree with Musketeer. Once again Poland is important enough to invade, but not quite important enough to defend. Worst geographic luck ever.
 
Due to outsourcing, giving up most of our manufacturing plants and purchasing 70% of our oil usage we our not self sufficient therefore we are at the mercy of a number of countries we now have less and less power including a smaller military and again we must decide in coming years what role we play, world cop or take care of America first.
 
NEVER...I hope. Just once let's heed the words of George Washington and Thomas Jefferson and avoided this foreign entanglement.
 
Eyewitnesses claim to see US soldiers running around or at least soldiers with US insignia.
Chui, the US Army has been training the Georgian Army for several years, mostly in counter-insurgency. It is no secret that we have ~100 US Army soldiers on the ground in Georgia.

But we didn't tell them to do this and, in fact, tried to discourage Georgia from taking the Russian's bait.
 
I think we should do what the US did during their Afghanistan.

Ship a couple million AKs made in China to Georgia and perhaps an instructor or two on asymmetric warfare.
 
Which ones? The ones in the part of Georga that want to be an independant nation, or the one in Ossetia that still want to be Russian?
 
Well, you should because it is the truth.

And Iraq is hiding Al Qaeda... And WMDs are north, south, east and west of Baghdad, too...

Is it true only because this administration claims it to be?

It makes little sense. It's like you choosing to punch (pick one of the UFC champions). You wouldn't. And neither would Saakshvili.

Go research the US's Eurasia Strategy or Caucasus Strategy. Then re-visit the events from 1992 up until, say, 8/18/2008. Brzezinski would be a good place to start. Then Kissinger.
 
Due to outsourcing, giving up most of our manufacturing plants and purchasing 70% of our oil usage we our not self sufficient therefore we are at the mercy of a number of countries we now have less and less power including a smaller military and again we must decide in coming years what role we play, world cop or take care of America first.

The US won't be helping out anytime soon, because if anything is started the Russians are going to turn off the oil and gas spigot to the rest of Europe and the US consumer will be paying $4-5 dollars per gallon, and I just don't see that happening.
 
Things are Heating Up -

NATO Ships Enter Black Sea for Exercises
The Associated PressPublished: August 21, 2008

BRUSSELS, Belgium: NATO warships entered the Black Sea on Thursday for what the alliance said were long-planned exercises and routine visits to ports in Romania and Bulgaria.

The move is not linked to the tensions over Russia's invasion of Georgia, which lies on the eastern shore of the Black Sea, about 900 kilometers (550 miles) from the Romanian coast, said officials at NATO's military command in southern Belgium.

Three warships — from Spain, Germany and Poland — sailed into the Black Sea on Thursday. They are due to be joined by a U.S. frigate, the USS Taylor, later this week.

They are "conducting a pre-planned routine visit to the Black Sea region to interact and exercise with our NATO partners Romania and Bulgaria, which is an important feature of our routine planning," said Vice-Adm. Pim Bedet, deputy commander at allied maritime headquarters in Northwood, England.

However, the move risks increasing tensions with Russia which has deployed ships from its Black Sea fleet to the Georgian coast.

The NATO flotilla includes Spain's SPS Adm. Juan de Bourbon, Germany's FGS Luebeck and the Polish ship ORP General K Pulaski. Romanian and Bulgarian ships will join them for exercises during a three-week deployment which NATO says has been planned for over a year.


&



Russia Orders Troops to Iran and Syria, Breaks All Ties to NATO
www.whatdoesitmean.com
By: Sorcha Faal,
August 21, 2008

Reports circulating in the Kremlin today are showing the firm resolve of Russia’s Military to begin implementation of President Medvedev’s directive to deliver a ‘crushing response’ to those Western Nations intending to harm Russian citizens after the US and Israeli backed unprovoked invasion and mass slaughter of Russian soldiers and civilians in South Ossetia by their puppet state Georgia.

Russia's Foreign Ministry has also echoed Medvedev’s directive by warning the West that Russia ‘will go beyond diplomacy’ in answering these latest attacks against them, including the United States positioning of their so called missile shield in Poland, and has further notified Norway that Russia is now cutting all ties to NATO, and has warned the Western Military Alliance that it will not tolerate the rearming of Georgia.

In a move that will, undoubtedly, increase the anger of the United States, President Medvedev is meeting with Syrian President Bashar al-Assad where he is reported to have offered the Syrians advanced Russian surface-to-air missiles in exchange for the expansion of Russian troops at Russia’s Syrian bases located at Tartus and Latakia.

These reports also state that President Medvedev has ordered an immediate increase of Russian troops and air defences at Iran’s Parchin military base, and which is Iran’s most secretive weapons development center.

The moves being made by Russian Forces against the United States are, ominously, coinciding with one of their most important military doctrines envisioning a World spiraling towards Total War wherein Western Forces must be confronted wherever they may be located, even to their very Homelands.

The United States Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice issued a warning to Russia that it is playing a ‘dangerous game’ with its bomber patrols off Alaska, but Russian Deputy Chief of General Staff Col.-Gen. Anatoly Nagovitsyn was quick to counter that US backed ally Israel had supplied Georgia with its vast arsenal used to kill Russian soldiers and civilians.

Not being understood by the American people about these events, but well known to all Russians, is that their War Leaders have embarked upon a course leading to Total World War as their only option for survival prior to their economic collapse, and which many economists state is likely to occur before the end of this year.

One such economist, Kenneth Rogoff, the former chief economist for the International Monetary Fund, and who states about the American economy that the ‘worst is yet to come’, has issued a dire warning that one of the United States largest banks is ready to fail ‘within months’.

In a complex World demanding that all human beings know the full importance of the events directing their lives, it remains the sad fact that those people living in one of the greatest Nations ever conceived, the United States, remain the most ill informed and ignorant about every critical event now occurring, and the facts behind those events, of all the Earth’s peoples.

To the depths these once great people have sunk we need only read as reported by Britain’s Independent News Service in their article titled “You can't be serious: How a comedian became the most influential voice in American politics”:

“When Jon Stewart inaugurated his fake news anchor on The Daily Show eight years ago, his goal was to send up the hyperbolic and manufactured controversy of US Cable News and, if possible, be even more outrageous. Now, in a wonderful through-the-looking-glass moment, he has supplanted the subjects of his mockery in the country's current affairs consciousness, and finds himself crowned the bemused voice of reason in an insane world.

The underground comic has become such a cultural touchstone that The New York Times asked this week whether he has become "the most trusted man in America".

With their nation in an unending war soon to escalate into Total World War, their economy in total collapse, millions of them losing their jobs, their homes and their savings, with an upcoming winter in which millions more of them will not be able to afford heating their homes, with tens of millions of them not being able to afford even the most basic of medical care, one can rightly believe that almost all of them have gone completely insane.


&

Russia Checkmates the Neocons

Kurt Nimmo
Infowars
August 21, 2008

It appears Russia is wasting little time responding to the neocon provocation of declaring its intention of installing missiles at Redzikowo, on Poland’s Baltic coast. Russia has dispatched the aircraft carrier at Admiral Kuznetsov to the Syrian port of Tartus. Admiral Kuznetsov, along with Russia’s biggest missile cruiser Moskva and at least four nuclear submarines, left Murmansk on the Barents Sea on August 18, according to DEBKAfile.

Russia plans to install Iskandar missiles in Syria and its Baltic enclave of Kaliningrad

On August 21, at the Black Sea port of Sochi, Syrian president Bashar Assad told the media he is considering a Russian request to deploy missiles in his country. The Arabic language newspaper, Asharq Al-Awsat, reported Bashar as saying he hopes to see Moscow cease its cooperation with NATO-allied states. “He is quoted as saying that Israeli arms sales to the Georgian army should prompt the Kremlin to strengthen the military alliance between Russia and Syria,” reports the Israeli news site, YNet News. Bashar is scheduled to meet with Russian president Dmitry Medvedev. According to the BBC, fast track military and technical co-operation are at the top of the agenda.

It should be noted that prior to Russia’s defense of South Ossetia and Abkhazia and the signing of the Polish missile deal, Moscow promised the U.S. it would not provide Iran and Syria with advanced military technology.

“I want to voice support for Russia over the situation around Abkhazia and South Ossetia,” Assad told Itar-Tass. “We understand the essence of the Russian position and consider its military reaction a response to provocation by the Georgian side.” Assad also said “Syria was and is striving to develop strategic relations with Russia, in the interests of security in the whole world,” an obvious reference to the neocon plan to confront Syria, Iran, and Russia.

Russia plans to install Iskandar surface missiles in Syria and its Baltic enclave of Kaliningrad, sources at DEBKAfile report. As widely reported over last weekend, Russian Baltic and Middle East warships, submarines and long-range bombers may be armed with nuclear warheads. “One plan on the table in Moscow, DEBKAfile’s sources report, is the establishment of big Russian military, naval and air bases in Syria and the release of advanced weapons systems withheld until now to Iran (the S-300 air-missile defense system) and Syria (the nuclear-capable 200 km-range Iskandar surface missile).”

“We have brought Syria to this situation,” Israel Likud MK Yuval Steinitz told Israel Radio on Thursday. “We must freeze talks with Syria until it stops calling on Moscow to arm Israel’s enemies, and until [Damascus itself] stops transferring arms to Hizbullah.” Several months ago, Israel and Syria announced they would resume peace talks.

Russia’s move is at least in part a response to Israel’s arming and training of the Georgian military. “Israel armed the Georgian army,” Russian Deputy Chief of General Staff Gen. Anatoly Nogovitsyn told a Moscow press conference last week. Jerusalem provided Tblisi with “eight types of military vehicles, explosives, landmines and special explosives for the clearing minefields.” Georgia’s Deputy Defense Minister Batu Kutelia previously said that “Georgian corporals and sergeants train with Germans, alpine units and the navy work with French instructors, and special operations and urban warfare troops are taught by Israelis,” Noah Shachtman reported for Wired on August 18. Earlier this year, Russia shot down a number of Georgian spy drones, specifically Hermes 450 reconnaissance planes manufactured by Israel’s Elbit Systems.

As reported by Infowars and Prison Planet, Georgia’s defense minister, Davit Kezerashvili, is a former Israeli who is fluent in Hebrew. Kezerashvili contributed to military cooperation between Israel and Georgia. “Israel’s defense industries managed to sell to Georgia [drones], automatic turrets for armored vehicles, antiaircraft systems, communication systems, shells and rockets,” former Israel internal security minister Roni Milo told Ynetnews. Moreover, “Israel has reportedly helped upgrade Soviet-designed Su-25 ground attack jets assembled in Georgia. And former Israeli generals serve as advisers to the Georgian military,” according to the Jewish Week.

On Wednesday, Bush praised Georgia’s NED engineered “Rose Revolution” while addressing a Veterans of Foreign Wars convention in Orlando, Florida, the Washington Post reported. NED’s installation of Mikheil Saakashvili was “one of the most inspiring chapters in history,” according to Bush. “Georgia stood for freedom around the world,” he said. “Now the world must stand for freedom in Georgia.”

Bush’s “freedom in Georgia,” that is to say the imposition of a client state micromanaged by the IMF and World Bank, will become less tenable now that Russia “plans to establish a long-term presence inside Georgia and one of its breakaway republics,” as the Chicago Tribune reports. “If implemented, the plan would effectively put under Russian control the border between Georgia and South Ossetia, which is seeking independence, as well as a small chunk of Georgia proper.”

Obviously, with the Russian presence in Georgia and its renewed military relationship with Syria, the neocon plan to confront Iran and encircle Russia has encountered a speed bump. It remains to be seen how the Bush neocons, quickly approaching the apogee of their power, will react to Russia’s latest move.
 
Well guys, I felt like I wanted to chime in on this one since I've seen the word "We" bandied about quite a bit. One thing which iritates me greatly is keyboard warriors talking about "We." As a father of 2 boys on active duty (one in Iraq, one doing pirate interdiction off the coast of Somalia AFTER destroying an Iranian PT boat..USS Whidbey Island..another conflict that "Chairborne Warriors" are eager to rush into), and a Desert Storm era vet, I would like nothing better than to see our boys back on American soil looking after American interests. This notion of "We" as in Americans, just pisses me off. It's always those with nothing on the line that clamor after war. I very rarely (not to say never) hear from our servicemen and women that they are eager to go to war. They do go when asked, but they are not warmongering. Why are "We" so eager to commit them to it. I for one am not. Enough of "Team USA World Police."
 
Oh the tangled webs we weave.
We are not the world's policemen. The duty of our government is to protect our borders, that is in our national interest, period. Everything else is trivial.
 
It is not the 18th century anymore and we cannot live with our head buried in the sand. I am not saying go around the world looking for ant hills to kick over but at the same time understand that we can be directly affected by a problem on the other side of the globe in a way never foreseen by Washington when he spoke of avoiding European entanglements.
 
It is not the 18th century anymore and we cannot live with our head buried in the sand. I am not saying go around the world looking for ant hills to kick over but at the same time understand that we can be directly affected by a problem on the other side of the globe in a way never foreseen by Washington when he spoke of avoiding European entanglements.

We should never allow ourselves to be put in the position of being damaged
by other countries unless we have a direct attack however economically we
now have done that,America needs be self sufficient have a super strong
military and if attack hit with a scorched earth policy but in no way should
we maintain 700 bases around the world and play world cop.

I served in Vietnam we lost over 50,000 boys they were heroes our government was a failure.
 
Sorry but this is a global economy and no nation which has made it through the industrial revolution is ever going to be fully self sufficient again. If you want to go back to that then start farming and making your own clothes.

At the same time it is easy to be way too involved in other nations affairs.

Somewhere between isolationism and expeditionary nation building is the medium we should be maintaining. At present I think we are deeply involved with other nations right now, but that does not mean I advocate the complete abandoning of our foreign policy. Waiting for an American city to be turned into a crater or be the victim of a biological weapon is probably a little too far towards isolationism... Waiting for the other guy to "throw the first punch" is not a good policy when that punch could be a gun.
 
No fighting to steal oil reserves. Period. There's no call for it (it's immoral) and WE are bleeding our "best" for something that WE the people are not planned on benefiting from, anyway. It's kinda like 19th century England where the British Parliament commits British resources (read manpower and coffers) to defend the interests of the East India Company... I'm not at all interested.


Russia's First Georgia Move Legitimate: U.S. Envoy
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080822.wambassador0822/BNStory/International
August 22, 2008 at 6:33 AM EDT

MOSCOW — The U.S. ambassador to Moscow, in a rare U.S. comment endorsing Russia's initial moves in Georgia, described the Kremlin's first military response as legitimate after Russian troops came under attack.

U.S officials, including President George W. Bush, have strongly criticized Moscow's subsequent action but have not focused on the initial chain of events that triggered the conflict between Russian and U.S.-ally Georgia.

The war broke out after Georgia tried to retake its Moscow-backed breakaway region of South Ossetia, prompting a counter-attack by Russian forces.

In his first major interview since his arrival as Ambassador last month, John Beyrle gave the Russian daily Kommersant his views on the conflict and warned about its impact on U.S. investor confidence in Russia.

Russia says withdrawal on track

“Now we see Russian forces, which responded to attacks on Russian peacekeepers in South Ossetia, legitimately, we see those forces now having advanced on to the soil of Georgia; Georgian territorial integrity is in question here,” Mr. Beyrle told the newspaper.

He said Washington had not sanctioned Georgia's initial actions when on Aug. 8, after a succession of tense skirmishes, Georgian forces attacked South Ossetia, triggering a massive Russian reaction when its peacekeepers there came under fire.

“We did not want to see a recourse to violence and force and we made that very, very clear,” Mr. Beyrle was cited as saying in quotes the U.S. embassy confirmed as accurate.

“The fact that we were trying to convince the Georgian side not to take this step is clear evidence that we did not want all this to happen,” Mr. Beyrle said in the interview, which was published on Friday.

“We have seen the destruction of civilian infrastructure, as well as calls by some Russian politicians to change the democratically-elected government of Georgia. Some question the territorial integrity of Georgia. That is why we believe that Russia has gone too far,” the envoy said.

Mr. Beyrle said Washington still supports Russia's bid to join the World Trade Organization, which has still not been finalized after more than a decade of talks.

“But American investors are now looking at the situation around Russia with concern and asking questions,” he said.
 
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