When do we assist the people of Georgia?

S

shepherddogs

New member
How long until we send in anti-tank and anti-aircraft weapons to the people of Georgia. The Russians ran holding their arses from Afghanistan when they met the Stingers. How about some shoulder fired anti-tank weapons? This needs to become painful for Russia or they'll think they can get away with this type of thing.
 
While I agree Russia needs an attitude adjustment I fear that America is over extended as is, we spent the past few years pouring money in a very small country and I doubt we will see much return. In my opinion we must decide if we want to be the world's police force if so we need to expand our military and control our bleeding money too other countries. Simply the golden goose is dying and no one seems willing to address that fact.
 
How long until we send in anti-tank and anti-aircraft weapons to the people of Georgia.
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That is not going to happen.

U.S. defense officials point the finger of blame at the Georgians for the seemingly suicidal decision to push into South Ossetia, noting their almost complete disregard for Russian air superiority and ability to assemble and launch an overwhelming ground force. One possibility, they say, is that the Georgians hoped to take advantage of Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin's distraction with the Olympics to present him with the fait accompli of an occupation of South Ossetia's capital on his return.
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1) Georgia already has anti-tank weapons. 2) Georgia already has anti-aircraft missiles, which they have used to good effect.

The stout Georgian air defenses, one of the few effective elements of the country's military, have shot down some Russian Su-25s with shoulder-fired, surface-to-air missiles (SAMs), say European-based U.S. officials. The heavier SA-11 Buk-1M also appears to have contributed to the Frogfoot strike-fighter losses and was certainly the cause of the Backfire bomber's loss, say U.S.-based analysts...Even in retreat and although suffering attacks on radar sites, Georgian air defenses appeared to be taking a steady toll of Russian aircraft. Russia admitted to losing four aircraft while the Georgians claim 14 shot down in the conflict. Last week they had admitted to the destruction of three Su-25 Frogfoot strike aircraft and the Backfire, said U.S. analysts.
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3) The Russian military performed far better in Georgia than they have in previous conflicts. They've been paying attention to our campaigns in Iraq and Afghanistan.

“They seem to have harnessed all their instruments of national power — military, diplomatic, information — in a very disciplined way,” said one Pentagon official, who like others interviewed for this article disclosed details of the operation under ground rules that called for anonymity. “It appears this was well thought out and planned in advance, and suggests a level of coordination in the Russian government between the military and the other civilian agencies and departments that we are striving for today.”
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See: http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/gene...=Georgian Military Folds Under Russian Attack
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/17/world/europe/17military.html?ref=europe

If we take a more active role in Georgia, then Russia will 1) cut the Georgian pipeline, and 2) interdict our air traffic in support of Afghanistan. We can't stay in Afghanistan without agreement from Russia. Putin knows we basically can't respond. So he planned the invasion of Georgia some time ago. Then he started baiting Saakashvili with petty harassment and Saakashvili stupidly took the bait by invading South Ossetia. Once Georgia invaded South Ossetia, that gave Russia the pretext to invade Georgia.

Georgia is not going to be able to throw the Russians out. Russia will leave when Putin decides it is in their best interest.

I completely despise Putin and his regime. But Saakashvili was a freakin' idiot for invading South Ossetia.
 
Do we really want a shooting war with Russia

Russia knows that the West is in no position to hit it on its nose with a
rolled up newspaper. The West wants Russian oil. Can you imagine how
high oil prices will spike if we get into a shooting war with Russia?

Russia and Saudia Arabia have us by the gonads. :mad:
 
WTW said:
yeah I think we should let Georgia fend for themselfs. They started it, they should finish it
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What I don't understand is why Georgia went into the conflict blind.
Russia knew Georgia was coming. Everybody knew that if a conflict broke
out Georgia would get its backside injured, all except for Georgia.

One of Sun Tzu's teachings was to never start a war you're not sure you'll win.

At this point, the West can do nothing but bluster and talk tough. There
will be no action forthcoming.
 
I do feel a bit bad for Georgia. They have been a major supporter of our war in Iraq and, I think, they have significant number of their forces in Iraq, making them more vulnerable to Russian aggression.
 
I think, they have significant number of their forces in Iraq, making them more vulnerable to Russian aggression.
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They had 2,000 men in Iraq, out of 12,000 army combat forces. It certainly didn't help that they had 2,000 in Iraq, but even if those 2,000 men had been in Georgia at the start it would not have made a difference in the outcome. And the US has already airlifted those 2,000 back to Georgia (though without their heavy equipment).

The reality is that a country with 4M people deliberately antagonized a bellicose neighboring country with 140M people. That was not smart.
 
Maybe it's not a question of "When", simply because we have been and are still assisting the people of Georgia. A more relevant question might be to "What Level" our assistance should take from this point forward.

I have been following the other thread and now this one and the following quote seems to be the general consensus of posters. To my way of thinking these viewpoints really ring hollow in my book.

"The reality is that a country with 4M people deliberately antagonized a bellicose neighboring country with 140M people. That was not smart."
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I'm going to use an analogy many have either participated in or witnessed as children.

There is a big, mean, ill mannered older bully in school who starts to pick on a smaller, weaker and younger fellow. Now this bully, since he's rich is actually pretty popular in school, or so he thinks, and has gotten away with a whole boat load of crap over the years. He thinks he's "The Man", but behind his back everyone really resents him because at one time or another he has picked on just about everyone in his class and lorded it over them. Not wanting him to pick on them again they go along to get along.

Anyway for attention when ever the bully encounters the young fellow, he calls him names, elbows him and general does his best to egg him on to take the first punch. The young fellow is no fool and his best friend tells him not to ever swing because the bully is just itching for him to start the fight so he can say he started it and commence to take his head off. Well this constant egging on is really starting to annoy the little fellow and not being a coward and having a couple of growing big ones, he's had just about enough.

So one day when everyone else is out to recess the bully starts pushing the younger guy around trying to get him to take the first punch and of course having had enough, our man hauls off and pops him on the nose. Not enough to do much damage, but just enough for the bully to use the excuse the little fellow hit him first. Using the excuse the little fellow hauled off and hit him first, the big bad nasty bully commences to beat the tar out of him.

Of course, when everyone comes back from recess they all agree with the bully that the young one hit first and had his whipping coming to him.


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All of the previous are good comments, but what good does it do to be an American ally if we won't come to our allies aid. I'm not advocating an eye to eye shooting war with the Russians but their must be some way to make it hurt for them. Otherwise what's next? Poland? Czeckoslovakia? Haven't we done this before? And what did we learn about the Russians? They take whatever they want until someone stops them. :barf:
 
Poland and the Czech republic are parts of Nato. So I doubt Russia wants to attack them. However, Georgia wanted to be part but given what seems to be not sound actions on their part - would it have been a good idea for them to suck us into a war with Russia?

BTW, during the Spanish-Civil War, many folks from around world went to fight the Fascists. Americans fought the Japanese in China before we entered the war. Swedes volunteered to help the Finns when Russia attacked them.

Anybody here can go sign up in the Georgian Army or start an international brigade, I would think.

So it's easy to posture for more aggressive action or do you go with a real politik.

Great powers usually slap around surrounding annoyances. The US has done it repeatedly. Recall Panama, the Dominican Republic, Grenada in post WWII interventions in our own 'lake'. Should the world have have shipped weapons to them, intervened - or did real politik serve to our advantage.

We saved the people of Iraq and have done little in Darfur. We don't invade Syria - an equally heinous regime as Saddam because no President had a Freudian Jones-on for invading them.

Countries usually fight for their core interests. Every once in awhile, some country becames nutso and starts wars for ideology or religion - they usually work out quite well - don't they? :cool:
 
Poland and the Czech republic are parts of Nato. So I doubt Russia wants to attack them. However, Georgia wanted to be part but given what seems to be not sound actions on their part - would it have been a good idea for them to suck us into a war with Russia?
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That is what it seems like. Our troops there for aid or whatever. Only puts our troops in a situation that can turn bad real quick.
 
Do any of you wish to risk nuclear exchanges? I don't. Georgia did NOT act alone. We were there. Israel was there. NATO had some personnel there. The Ukraine was there and Germany had "illegal" weapons there (G36s that HK is now having to answer for).

That necktie-eating Saashkhvili is unstable and perhaps a bit gullible; but I don't think US and NATO militarists expected the level of Russian response. Despite the fact that MOST don't accept the US's foreign policy of controlling Eurasia go get a map and mark where we have NATO and US bases.

You (understood you) may not read Mackinder and Brzezinski but the strategic-thinking Russians have and do. Unfortunately for us, they also study Sun Tze.
 
We ALREADY did help them. We have provided them with lots of equipment and training.

Did you not see those American man Hummvees being towed back into Russia by the Russian Army on tonight's evening news??

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The reality is that there isn't much we can do for Georgia. Look at a map of the world in that area. There is no reasonable overland route for us to mobilize forces to Georgia and then supply them. Any forces that we brought into Georgia would have to be brought in via air or through the Black Sea. Both the air and water routes could be interdicted by Russia. In contrast, Russia has overland routes to Georgia and their supply lines are far, far shorter.

In addition, our military is already stretched very thin dealing with Iraq and Afghanistan.

And finally, if we got involved in a war with Russia we would risk a nuclear exchange. To quote our Secretary of Defense, Robert Gates:
"The United States spent 45 years working very hard to avoid a military confrontation with Russia," Gates said. "I see no reason to change that approach today."
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I think, despite Messrs. McCain and Bush and their war of strong words, that Georgia is on their own on this one. The US isn't in a position, nor should we be, to intervene from a military standpoint. Russian knows that and we know that.

Russia will push Georgia around because it can.
 
We did help them: we told them don't do this.

They did it anyway. Hopefully, they're not expecting us to clean up their messes for them.
 
Silver Bullet, I don't buy for a second that "we told them not to do it". Eyewitnesses claim to see US soldiers running around or at least soldiers with US insignia. Russia claims to possess bodies of two Black soldiers and they state that they have twenty (20) known mercenaries from around the world - many of them Arabs. Yes, Virginia, Georgia is largely Islamic.

This is the same scenario that happened in Serbia... :mad:

NATO supporting the destruction of Christian communities and STUPID Islamicists fall for the bait only to be targeted later by the same Western powers. :shaking my head:

The powers that be must be laughing right now....
 
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