What's wrong with this?

[jimpeel]

All that would be necessary for the Congress to stop illegal immigration would be for a few of the states being invaded by illegals to simply do the following.

Load buses with all of the illegals they arrest for offenses and ship them to DC where they will be greeted by a twenty piece Mariachi band in front of the Capitol building with great banners declaring "Welcome to your new home!"

The border fence would be built in record time and with minimal delays such as environmental impact studies, etc.

You see, those who dictate to the states that they must provide goods and services to non-citizens would see same in a different light once the onus of that provision falls to them in their own back yard.

 

[Hal]

Is this not a viable plan:
a) Build the fence.

NO!
Fences keep people in as well as keep people out...

I'm sorry to put this so blunt - but - if you really want to spend you're life hidden behind a fence, then you're simply putting in time between erections until that big long dirt nap... read that as *life* just ain't worth living.

 

[Marko Kloos]

Empower LEOs at the city/state levels to detain anyone caught without proper identification during the course of their daily duties.

Don't you mean, "empower them to detain any Hispanics caught without proper identification"?

I can only imagine the uproar on this board alone if city LEOs everywhere started detaining anyone caught without proper ID.

Sometimes (and more often lately) I am ashamed of some of the members here. Is that what you want the "Land of the Free" to become? A police state where the cops have the right to detain people at will if they look too swarthy?

I like the 1/4 mile "kill zone" idea.Then instead of a fence put up shooting benches. Free admission and pay,,,,say,,,, .28cents a head for each turned in at the end of your "range visit".

Hey it worked in East Berlin for some odd 50 years.

Yeah, let's all emulate a communist dictatorship. And the idea of machine-gunning people at the border...are you completely out of your mind?

 

[talonap]

How about if we build the fence just North of the towns/states that don't want a fence? That way, they can have all the illegals they want.

 

[DasBoot]

Giving our government the right to detain a person without suspecting them of a crime gives me the chills. There is no reason I should have to show anyone my ID until I'm stopped for doing something wrong.

Read the last 7 words what I wrote.

Empower LEOs at the city/state levels to detain anyone caught without proper identification during the course of their daily duties.

I'm NOT suggesting wonton stop and checks, door breakdowns, etc or any other silly procedures that you are so fearful of.
If, through the normal daily activities of an LEO, you are found not ot be able to show who you are, you should be detained until your identity can be verified.
Run a red light.
Get stopped.
No ID.
"Sorry. We've got to do a little check on you right now."

Don't you mean, "empower them to detain any Hispanics caught without proper identification"?

No!
I meant what I said...."anyone".
There aren't too many Hispanic members that I know of in Islamic terrorist organizations.
If,for example, in the course of a traffic stop, accident, running a red light, etc, etc, you/me can't produce the proper identification, than by all means detention should be exercised until some verification as to who you are can be produced.

I can only imagine the uproar on this board alone if city LEOs everywhere started detaining anyone caught without proper ID.

Bring on the "uproar"!
You shouldn't be out and about w/o some form of ID anyway.
If your killed in an accident.
Found floating in the river.
Killed in a robbery.
On the lam from a multiple rape/homocide.
Caught meandering around a power facility, etc.
And yes....in this country illegally.
You don't think proper ID would be a big help to everyone involved.

Sometimes (and more often lately) I am ashamed of some of the members here. Is that what you want the "Land of the Free" to become? A police state where the cops have the right to detain people at will if they look too swarthy?

Read it again.
Not because

they look too swarthy?

but because they don't have any identification showing that they are here legally or are driving legally.
Sometimes I'm ashamed at the childish paranoia/comparisons to "dictatorships" and tyranical regimes presented by some members who feel that in todays dangerous world, everyone should still be absolutely free to go and do whatever they want without any questions being asked.

A fence is not going to do a thing to stop the encroachments. People will go over it, go under it or through it (wire cutters, anyone?).

How can you say a fence would not be a hindrance?
Two VERY high walls, electrified fence, multiple cameras and a road for agents in between.
COME ON!
Wirecutters are pretty useless against concrete.

When employers know that they will get a hefty fine and jail time, they will stop their hiring practices. If there are no jobs, the influx will cease.

Absolutely!
Together WITH a fence......what a team!
Maybe "fence" is the wrong term.
Perhaps "WALL" is more suitable.

Fences keep people in as well as keep people out...

Hey' I LOVE it here!
KEEP ME IN.....PLEASE!

How about if we build the fence just North of the towns/states that don't want a fence? That way, they can have all the illegals they want.

FUNNNNNYYYYYY!!!

 

[Justme]

On another thread guys are in an uproar over the confiscation pending investigation of a shoplifter's weapons, three of which were found in his car with two of his buddies and some alcohol. Try thinking things through once in a while.

This was a man caught engaged in a crime who took the police to his car where they found multiple loaded weapons, not just some guy out walking around who "looked suspicious".

 

[Al Norris]

If,for example, in the course of a traffic stop, accident, running a red light, etc, etc, you/me can't produce the proper identification, than by all means detention should be exercised until some verification as to who you are can be produced.

The reality of todays USA, if you are driving without your Drivers License and are stopped, you will in most instances be going to jail.

Your example, above, is a non-sequitur.

I can only imagine the uproar on this board alone if city LEOs everywhere started detaining anyone caught without proper ID.

Bring on the "uproar"!
You shouldn't be out and about w/o some form of ID anyway.

So, you believe our society has devolved into the, "papers please," mentality? Don't worry, you are not alone in this thinking.

The fundamental Right to Travel is not based upon the requirement that you have ID in order to move about freely.

Sometimes I'm ashamed at the childish paranoia/comparisons to "dictatorships" and tyranical regimes presented by some members who feel that in todays dangerous world, everyone should still be absolutely free to go and do whatever they want without any questions being asked.

I'm ashamed that any American would think that I (or anyone else living here) need "papers" in order to enjoy my freedoms and liberties.

How can you say a fence would not be a hindrance?
Two VERY high walls, electrified fence, multiple cameras and a road for agents in between.
COME ON!
Wirecutters are pretty useless against concrete.

Yeah, right.

We can maintain our Freedoms and Liberties by emulating communist dictatorships... :barf:

 

[DasBoot]

Your example, above, is a non-sequitur.

How is that?

So, you believe our society has devolved into the, "papers please," mentality?

But we ARE that society.
And most of the civilized world also.
Aren't you required to produce ID when boarding a plane?
Stopped by the authorities for a traffic infraction.
Vote.
I don't understand what you're talking about.
How is carrying and presenting ID such a threat to your

freedoms and liberties

You do it now!!!

 

[GoSlash27]

How about a streamlined version of D: Cease all social handouts, period.

And as long as we're building fences and walls for security, let's not forget Canada.

Or better yet, let's build a 300' high fence with surveillance cameras and concertina wire around Washington, DC. That ought to cut down on our #1 problem.

 

[joab]

Did you ever see a Man a Wife and 2 kids climb a 10' fence
In fact have have you ever saw anyone climb a 10'ft fence with
Razor wire at the top ?????

No but we have regularly seem them go under it through tunnels

Years ago I worked for a large company for about 5 years one day they decided to stop paying me
I quit going to work
Even if they had not locked the doors on me and taken my company truck away I still would not have gone because there was no advantage to doing so

The story is always the same
Follow the money

 

[kennybs plbg]

When employers know that they will get a hefty fine and jail time, they will stop their hiring practices. If there are no jobs, the influx will cease.

I agree but what alternative will these people have when they are already here and can't support themselves. Do you actually think they will head back to Mexico? Even the honest person will seek other means and do what ever is necessary to survive. So one steals from the one that has, I assume that would be better accomplished in a rich country than a poor country.

kenny b

 

[jfrey123]

Communistic societies have to start somewhere. The more rights we give up, the easier it becomes for governments to make the bigger changes.

For the sake of arguement, let's make it mandatory to always have ID on you. If you're stopped without it, well we're going to detain you until you can prove who you are. With that step in place, all it takes is one more law that asks you to provide a reason as to why you're out on that Sunday drive where you ran the red light. If you can't provide a viable reason, well we're going to detain you until you can provide a reason.


No, the sky isn't falling, but if you start removing it's supports...

 

[Al Norris]

Your example, above, is a non-sequitur.

How is that?

Non-sequitur is latin for "it does not follow."

In post #25, you said:

There aren't too many Hispanic members that I know of in Islamic terrorist organizations.
If,for example, in the course of a traffic stop, accident, running a red light, etc, etc, you/me can't produce the proper identification, than by all means detention should be exercised until some verification as to who you are can be produced.

Your second statement does not follow from the first. This type of argument is an absurdism, as your second statement has no relationship to the preceeding statement and therefore can not be an example.

But we ARE that society.

I can almost hear the voice if indignation... No we are not quite there yet.

Do I need an ID to simply walk around town? No.

Do I need an id to pay for my groceries, by check or card or cash? Nope. Perhaps they should check my ID for checks and cards, but no one does. For a cash purchase? Never.

To vote? Nope. My name is on the roles, I simply say who I am, sign the register and proceed.

Last time I was stopped for anything, was in 1999. The officer just wondered if I had forgotten to register my vehicle. Oops! Never asked for a thing, the officer simply asked that I get it taken care of....

YMMV, but in my town, the last time I was asked for ID was when I got my CWP in 2000.

For the sake of arguement, let's make it mandatory to always have ID on you. If you're stopped without it, well we're going to detain you until you can prove who you are. With that step in place, all it takes is one more law that asks you to provide a reason as to why you're out on that Sunday drive where you ran the red light. If you can't provide a viable reason, well we're going to detain you until you can provide a reason.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Marko Kloos]

You know that liberty is a lost cause when the peasants beg for bigger and more chains...

 

[Eghad]

Like drugs, the only real way to stop the flow is to stop the need. It is already a minor crime for anyone to employ an unlawful alien. One of two things must happen. Prosecute companies/individuals who hire these people under the current law, or change the law to a higher crime and prosecute the employers: i.e. mandatory jail time for willful employment, regardless of what company title you may hold. Go straight to the top!

When employers know that they will get a hefty fine and jail time, they will stop their hiring practices. If there are no jobs, the influx will cease.

That is the root of the problem.

The thing that Congress doesn't want to do.....

 

[madmag]

I agree with all of your points except the fence. I have lived in El Paso ...that's yards from the border for those of you that don't know. I think in city areas a fence does provide a barrier that someone has to slow down and climb over. During this process they can be spotted. But I think for large open areas of desert electronic surveillance along with boots on the ground is the way to go. It does work when you have enough fast moving reaction forces to intercept the illegals crossing. Actually (others mentioned) open areas help for spotting. Night vision cameras are great tools. Also, aircraft with cameras.

The tool that is lacking is that telephone in the Presidents office. The one he can give orders on to make this happen. Right now it's just collecting dust.

Mr. President, move your hand forward and down. Pick-up the phone. Say I want to talk to DHS & the Chairman of The Joint Chiefs of Staff. It's easy. Just give it a try.

Just to add: I know on occasion we talk about LEO and papers & such. I don't mean this as bad or good...just info. But I can tell you from first hand that any time a LEO anywhere reads your license no. he can access the NCIC national computer. Even if he does not stop you. He has in seconds about 27 pieces of information about you. SS#, birth, crime record, address, etc. Even small town cops can do this. This is almost always done before he walks up to the car. So, when he asks for information the fact is he already knows a lot more than you may think. Big brother I guess, but that's the way it is.

 

[Justme]

I bet they get your credit report too.

 

[Scott Conklin]

Sometimes I'm ashamed at the childish paranoia/comparisons to "dictatorships" and tyranical regimes presented by some members who feel that in todays dangerous world, everyone should still be absolutely free to go and do whatever they want without any questions being asked

And sometimes I am embarrassed by people who are determined to niavely pretend we are not, in fact, sacrificing everything this nation was founded on and grew great through on the altar of "safety" and "security". Neither of which, BTW, can ever be provided anyway, no matter how much some of you are willing to give up.

 

[Scott Conklin]

...any time a LEO anywhere reads your license no. he can access the NCIC national computer. Even if he does not stop you. He has in seconds about 27 pieces of information about you. SS#, birth, crime record, address, etc. Even small town cops can do this. This is almost always done before he walks up to the car. So, when he asks for information the fact is he already knows a lot more than you may think.

This is the biggest reason I kept my dealer's license even when I was fed up and wanted to quit. If they walk up to my window they know...a corporation name. Might be one reason why I have been stopped once in the last 10 years and why cops seem generally so unwilling to stop dealer-tagged cars at all.

 

[Wildalaska]

An observation...

I wonder if I am usual or unusual in that I never go anywhere NOWADAYS without ID...

Simply because I never pay cash for anything. And all my cards call for ID.

The western developed world along with Japan, Korea and Taiwan, is all so computerized and databases id wise that only the complete destruction of all databases and computers in the world would give us privacy again.

Without putting on tinfoil, the gov and private business (which is us anyway) have tabs on all of us (including government and business). In other words, everything is becoming googleized.

Funny all this data promotes privacy. Me for example. I'm a simple man, a meager man, a boring man. Data-poke around through my existence..ho hum...data surveillance...waste of bandwidth.

Most of us arent interesting enough to warrant a second look.


WildthebladeofgrassthatbendsinthewindAlaska

PS...You know with all of the stuff about Big Brother watching, I wonder why that hasn't been emprically tested by some enterprising journalist or blogger. Easy enough to do. Go find a controversial message board or blogspot, register as Shiek Yabouti, and begin enlisting folks into secret plots to destroy the great satan. See if your ISP gets visited......

Bet it doesnt. Ive been trying for ages to get someone to pay attention to my cell phone conversations (like the person Im talking to ) by saying things like "The suits are in the cargo hold", or "John has a long mustache, john has a long mustache" or "die filthy infidel" and I cant even BUY a visit from a fed unless its to buy guns.

WildimsolonelyAlaska