Whats the proper way to take a loaded gun from someone?

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Jamie Young

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Should you grab someone's wrist before you actually put your hands on the gun? If I put my hands on a gun and someone pulled the trigger, I doubt I would be able to handle being burned from the firing of the gun, without pulling back. Would you try and force someone to fire off all the rounds in the gun while you wrestled over it?

I heard (don't know how accurate it is) that during the Vietnam War the North Vietnamese taught their soldiers to push back on the 1911 slide and jam the gun and then stab the GI with a knife.
 
Ask them to unload it first. Preferably pointed in a safe direction.

:p


On the same topic, what is the deal with the story of Berettas being slide stripped by an attacker?

What about grabbing a revolver thus preventing the cylinder from rotating?
 
I own a Beretta 92FS and if somone stuck one to my head and looked the other way I would attempt to push the button in with my thumb and pull the switch down. The gun would then be in two pieces. Its possible, but its extrememly unlikely that someone would be able to do that, especially when the BG has his finger on the trigger.
 
IIRC, the book Fighting Fit says that one should assume that the gun will be fired. The recommended course of action with an automatic is to grab the slide and attempt to point the gun in a safe direction. When it does discharge, it should jam up nicely if you're holding the slide. With revolvers, the same theory applies. Grab the cylinder and try to stop the next round firing. The book does say, however, that you WILL be burned from doing so. The idea is not to totally incapacitate the BG with some cool ninja move, but to create a moment of confusion while he tries to figure out what's wrong with his gun. Exploit this moment and acquaint his family jewels with your knee (repeatedly) and THEN you can do your cool ninja move to break his neck in 36 places.
 
There are a lot of ways.

Some of the basic elements I learned are:

1) Get off line and grab, maintaining adhesion.
2) Bring the weapon into a position of greater control,
3) Strip.

Getting off line means getting out of the path of the muzzle. If the muzzle is actually touching your body, this means angling your body and moving towards the attacker, so that the muzzle will slide off of you. The direction to turn depends on the attacker's position: front, back or side.

Simultaneously, grab the weapon. Keep it close to your body, but pointed away; this is the aforementioned "adhesion". The idea here is to gain more control over the weapon than the attacker by moving the gun into a retention position. If you both have the gun at arms' length, it's a wrestling match. If he's the only one at arms' length, you have a leverage advantage.

Finally, strip the weapon from his grasp. There are a million ways to do this; most involve turning the gun outward, away from his palm and gripping fingers. Also, wrist locks can be applied at this point, but you're going for a quick break rather than compliance.

At every step, distract and harass as necessary. When you close, give him something to think about: an eye jab, perhaps, or even a good punch to the face as you grab the weapon.

The nice thing about this system is that, with tweaking and practice, it works with handguns and long guns.

Disarms that rely on the function of the weapon make me nervous. The cylinder grab on a revolver works, if the revolver isn't cocked. But all the attacker has to do is get your fingers off the cylinder.

Pushing the slide back to jam the weapon is even riskier, because you are pushing in the same direction that the attacker will try to pull to free the weapon. If he pulls quickly enough (and he probably will, as that is a reflexive action), the slide will go back into battery and he'll still be on target.

As for the old Beretta trick, this is a very fine motor skill. I would only feel comfortable about it if I practiced it hundreds of times, at full speed, with regularity. And then it only works on Beretta 92s. Not much of a payoff.

For any technique, practice is the key. Get some friends together. Use dummy guns and eye protection, and just try to figure out what works and what doesn't. Encourage the guy holding the gun to think up scenarios--different grips, ranges, stances, on the ground with him straddling you, etc. Then, for a real test of how you're doing, toss the dummy gun on the ground and have two guys go for it. The one who gets it first is the attacker, and the one who doesn't is trying to disarm. Hee hee! Try to find that takedown catch now. This introduces adrenaline into the equation.
 
The Beretta 92 trick may be an urban legend. I don't think that there has ever been a documented instance of this happening to an officer or armed citizen on the street. I did see it demonstrated very effectively at the Calibre Press Street Survival Seminar way back in '93. IIRC, Beretta did market a modification that was supposed to prevent that from happening. I've got the part number somewhere in my notes from that class. (yes I keep everything like that...drives the womenfolk crazy:D ) I think they only sold it to peace officers.

Jeff
 
Pick it up off the concrete after you ventilate him of course! :D

Actually, I would want to grab and move off line, preferably wrist and gun. If I can do this and get a knife deployed, its over once I'm beside and behind him holding his gun hand. Poke anything that presents itself.
 
GUN DISARMS

If your intrested in Gun Disarms that are simple and work. Go to www.kravmaga.com, they sell the tapes of it, or check out a school near you. Learning them does not make you Superman, but if you need to disarm somebody before you die. They're the best all around, alot simpiler than the Koga method I trained in.
 
I can't get access to that website!!!!!!!!


The reason I was wondering about this was a few weeks ago I got together with a few NJ TFL members and one of them was shooting a .357. I was standing 6ft to their right when they shot it and the blast from the "cylinder" (I think because I was standing to the side) felt like somebody stabbed my hand with a hot needle. If I was to have my hands any closer to that gun when it went off I wonder how many fingers I would have.
 
If you are in that position you are already in deep doo doo.

I would try to get close and sidestep.

The more distance you have the greater advantage the person with the gun is.

It's really important to get inside. Then I may gouge the eye or the throat. The idea is to cause him enough pain that he can't think about shooting you.

Michael
 
If I was to have my hands any closer to that gun when it went off I wonder how many fingers I would have.
Click to expand...


The side blast from a revolver will do some real damage to your skin if you have your hand wrapped aroound the gun when it is discharged.

OTOH, it's probably not as bad as a muzzle blast. At your chest. Preceded by a .357 slug moving along at a brisk pace.
 
Just read a pretty decent article in the Feb 2002 Combat Handguns mag about that same topic.

1. Clear your body (from the line of fire of the gun by either moving the gun or your body)

2. Trap the gun (by blocking or deflecting the attackers gun hand and holding onto it.) You should attempt to grab the wrist or the thumb area that holds the gun.

3. Remove the gun (from the assailant's grab) This is done by rotating the hand palm upward and putting your free hand just under the gun at the trigger guard. With the free hand under the gun pull the gun out of the hand while prying the thumb free.

4. Neutralize the assailant.

All of this of course while trying to keep the gun pointed away from you. The article goes into more detail of course than I can write without filling the whole screen.
 
I'm with Tamara and Joe. Once you shoot him enough times, you should be able to kick it out of his hand on the floor.

I was taught that the most important thing was to be moving off the line of the muzzle and moving or controlling the gun at the same instant. I was also taught that that is the hardest part to learn. I'm no kind of expert or even a serious student, but this makes sense to me. When I do practice, I concentrate on doing both totally simultaneously and with no warning or setup.
 
Takes some serious training and mental conditioning to have a chance of pulling it of.

The decision should be an informed one. There are questions that should be answered in the instant before making the move. You know that the other person isn't totally committed to shooting you or they would have already done so. Is there another bad guy and where? etc.

Training should be with someone who has knowledge of the procedures as it is easy to get somebody hurt. A well executed strip is fast, violent......and if the weapon has a realistic trigger guard, the gunholder stands a good chance of loosing a finger. Both parties will probably get a lot of muzzle blast and powder in the eyes etc.

Taxpayers footed the bill for a fair amount of such training for me and my partner tried it in a for real situation. It worked for him and the bad guy suffered from aeriation of the brain.

Sam.......your brain is your primary weapon.
 
Grab the slide with your right hand and push to the left a foot or two. Then twist the pistol up backwards toward the shooter, and then tilt your wrist to the left and twist it out of their hand. I would really have to show you. If they choose to fire then you cannot really stop them, but if they wimp out, you have the gun. I would only do it if you were sure they are about to kill you.
 
Don't know if this'll work...

Put my hands in the air, about head level, as if I was surrendering. Then sidestep out of the line of fire, grab the BG's gun hand with the left hand pulling it out away from the BG's body, holding it so the gun is pointed away from you, then hammer-strike him in the forearm with the right hand, aiming to break his radius or ulna. Needs to be done lightning quick to avoid being shot or counterattacked.

I'd only try something like this if I thought I was about to be shot.
 
I love the fact that bad guys watch just as many action flicks as we do. The really beautiful part is that they use them as training films and thus think of firearms as contact weapons. ironicly, most also thing survival knives are great for throwing 20 yards into a victim and sticking him to a tree. Never underestimate the criminal mind.
 
A friend of mine who's got 30 years on the LA County Sheriff's Department advised me to grab the cylinder on a revolver or the slide on an automatic, then twist the gun outwards so it'll fire away from me.

The next move is to pull my tac-folder and stick the BG with it.
 
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