whats the point?

Status
Not open for further replies.
PocketCamera said:
really, im "off my rocker" because i expect the companies to ACTUALLY SHOW AND PROMOTE the products they make? ONLY having guys shooting the rifle with a scope, and not using the IRON SIGHTS they are advertising as the CORE purpose of the entire concept, is sort of like paying for a lobster dinner and not eating the lobster..
Click to expand...

PC I get you're upset manufacturers don't offer a variety of rifles with sights. However, manufacturers are going to bring to market what sells to the majority. You wanting "iron sights" puts you squarely in a very small minority of gun owners.

Another reason not to put "iron sights" on bolt action rifles is stock design. You want a stock that is going to help mitigate recoil on rifles, best way to do that is to bring heel up to as close to centerline with the bore as possible. This stock design also works best when using optics, if you add sights you'll need to add something as tall as what's on an AR15 for front and rear just to get proper eye alignment with the sights. That or you have to put more drop in the heel to get the sights down closer to the barrel, which doesn't work well if you want to use optics primarily.

If you want a rifle designed for sights as a primary use, then you're going to have to look at Lever Action rifles and Traditional Muzzle Loaders. For bolt action rifles you're going to have to start looking towards rifles designed Dangerous Game hunting, someone mentioned the Ruger African and at one time is was offered in .223 Rem. Dangerous game rifles are still primarily designed for sights as the first choice of aiming, not a backup to optics. However, they are not really designed for any long range shooting unless they have a folding rear leaf sight. The Ruger Gunsite Scout will probably be the best production bolt action rifle for using sights non DGR, but since you hate the muzzle blast of short barrels I'm sure you've checked it off.





RaySendero said:
Iron sights stand up to the beating, getting bounced around in my truck !!!

Scopes don't.
Click to expand...

There are optics out there that can sand up to just about anything, obviously you're not spending that kind of money on your "truck guns".
 
410guy said:
For hunting, I like the option of open sights. I've passed on a number of rifles for this reason.
Click to expand...
It really depends upon what you mean by "hunting". Here in Michigan, the prime time (most deer taken during this time) is the twilight before full light in the morning and the twilight before full dark at night. That is when deer are the most active during shooting hours. As much as I like aperture sights (they are "iron") and I used them to good effect on an M1 Rifle during basic training and I used them in local Service Rifle competitions, they are problematic unless the light is good. If one opts to use iron, here in Michigan for deer, one gives up some of the best time for a shot at deer.
 
I built me a beautiful Mauser 98 on a FN action in 7x57, installed a timney trigger, a peep sight and a very thin target front sight with no intention to ever use a scope on it.
Love shooting it at 100yds, shoots about 2-3'' with my mediocre skills using handloads. I'd probably fine out to 200 with it, and that is plenty enough for me.

I also love how it handles, without a heavy scope on it it is much compacter, not top-heavy and it feels really slim. There is something about going minimalist.
I own several rifles with optics on them, but I have to say I enjoy shooting my iron sighted mauser the most.
 
Last edited:
dahermit said:
It really depends upon what you mean by "hunting". Here in Michigan, the prime time (most deer taken during this time) is the twilight before full light in the morning and the twilight before full dark at night. That is when deer are the most active during shooting hours. As much as I like aperture sights (they are "iron") and I used them to good effect on an M1 Rifle during basic training and I used them in local Service Rifle competitions, they are problematic unless the light is good. If one opts to use iron, here in Michigan for deer, one gives up some of the best time for a shot at deer.
Click to expand...

I think the key word here is "option". One could always use see thru mounts.
 
wanting a bolt action rifle with IRON SIGHTS on it. When they do get made, they get made with super short barrels, huge muzzle blast, cheap plastic magazines. and adjustable "rear sights" that perhaps are one step above a washer soldered onto a screw set into the receiver top.
Click to expand...

If you can't find a longer barrel bolt action with good quality iron sights, you aren't shopping in the right places.

The big first step is to forget limiting yourself to NEW guns.

And a quality set of irons will cost more than a scope and be less rugged.
Click to expand...

Do you sell roses with that horse manure?? :rolleyes:

If your iron sights cost more than a quality scope and are less rugged, you're shopping in the wrong places and buying the wrong stuff.
 
I paid 48 bucks for the williams peep sight, the front sight plus base I got from my local dealer for free, he had several laying around from rifles he equipped with silencers.

Thats 48 bucks vs. 300+ bucks for a scope, +50 for a mount, +50 for bases

So the iron sights are at least 8x cheaper.
 
Pocket Camera said:
hmm plastic magazines...

plastic magazines have increased shattering and breakage when they get cold.
Click to expand...

I haven't seen any quality manufacturer such as Magpul have any issues in cold weather. And it gets cold up here in Montana. CAN they break? Sure. Metal mags can dent, too.

Pocket Camera said:
and for the naysayers, the Appleseed project gets high touted on these forums as a great way to learn to shoot. i havent participated, but i have HEARD the emphasis is IRON SIGHTS..when possible.
Click to expand...

I took my nephew to Appleseed. I researched what firearm setup is good for the course beforehand. I took the advice of installing Tech Sites, which are iron peep sights.

What did I see when we arrived? Everybody....EVERYBODY, but one other person had scopes. They didn't focus on the need for iron nor scopes.
 
I was recently clued in to a very nice offering by Savage that comes with very nice iron sights, based on reviews I've read.

1740947.png


Here's 2 pro shooters using iron sights on a rifle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8G4wE4xQleA
 
that comment sure makes me smile with glee the year i spent sorting through crooks and cooks trying to sell me worn out, shot out, 1903s for 1K$ plus, that needed complete rebuilds,
new stocks, bedding, new barrels, gunsmithing fees, that would have increased the cost by 2 or 3K$
 
That would be depressing. Of course, you could have had a different experience and ended up with a Swedish Mauser in beautiful condition for under $140. There are always bad deals to be had--but that doesn't mean the good deals never existed.
 
dahermit said:
It really depends upon what you mean by "hunting". Here in Michigan, the prime time (most deer taken during this time) is the twilight before full light in the morning and the twilight before full dark at night. That is when deer are the most active during shooting hours. As much as I like aperture sights (they are "iron") and I used them to good effect on an M1 Rifle during basic training and I used them in local Service Rifle competitions, they are problematic unless the light is good. If one opts to use iron, here in Michigan for deer, one gives up some of the best time for a shot at deer.
Click to expand...
And that really is the objection with iron sights, add to that anyone without really good vision and you can't see the sights at the most productive times to hunt.
I like the clean lines of unscoped rifles and those neat vernier tang sight on old rifles, at one time I had Williams foolproof aperture sights on several guns, no more.
I had Lasik correction for distance vision which ruined my close up sight. I made the choice to have perfect distance vision in both eyes and good depth perception over close up vision. It was a pretty good trade off, I can spot coyote running up a hillside farther than any of my hunting partners.
 
new stocks, bedding, new barrels, gunsmithing fees, that would have increased the cost by 2 or 3K$
Click to expand...

The reviewer I read on the Savage said that the action and sights are where the money is, apparently the plastic stock is terrible, so I guess the reality is that it is $475 + a stock.
 
PocketCamera have you looked at the CMP? I doubt you'll find a 1903 to buy there, but they will rebuild your old 1903 if you find a shooter grade rifle. However, I don't really know what kind of 1903 you're looking for but 100 year old rifles with a rich history usually command a premium even for the non pristine examples.
 
In the Fall of 1979 at 100 yards in fading light I fired a 1.5" group of my 1978 Winchester M70 XTR with GI ammunition and the factory sights. You learn to shoot with iron sights, scopes will give you a boost, but if you really don't know how to shoot.....
 
Ever try hunting though thick kudzu with a scope? There are times when iron sights are better, I still prefer scopes but it’s simply not true that iron sights are never better than a scope.
 
I only have 2 scoped rifles and one hasn't left the safe in years. I prefer irons and would love a bolt action rifle for hunting with m1/m14 style irons.
 
I prefer irons and would love a bolt action rifle for hunting with m1/m14 style irons.
Click to expand...

Buy an M1A, and turn the gas system OFF. You now have a straight pull bolt action with the sights you want. :rolleyes::D

I'm sure there are other and cheaper ways to do it, but that's up to you. ;)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top