What's the NRA doing for CCW?

First, you can go to all your friends, neighbors, employers, church group members, guy working at the 7-11, cute girl next door, the bartender who served you that beer, the mechanic who fixed your car and all the rest of society that voted for anti-gun politicians and did nothing to support both of your rights and thank them for the rights you don't have.
What?? You thought all the people you see and associate with are for your right to carry a gun or do everything in their power to make sure you have that right even if they don't want it? Guess again.
As terrible as that may sound, that is the fact of why a state doesn't allow CCW. It is the society as a whole and not just the politicians and how many NRA members are around.
If all the people I mentioned above voted for pro-gun politicians and pro-gun legislation that would allow something like CCW, then there would be CCW without a doubt, because the government is influenced by what the majority of the people want. Not what the NRA wants or what a minority of gun owners want.
There is nothing the NRA can do except to reason with the anti-gun politicians or residents of a state. The NRA cannot force them to do anything.
It all comes down to each individual person you pass by everyday.
 
There's something like 40,000 legal permit holders in CA.

There are zero legal permit holders in WI.

The chances of the NRA getting shall-issue in CA are slim to none.

The chances of the NRA getting shall-issue in WI are about 50-50.

If you controlled the purse-strings, where would you focus your efforts?
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Monkeyleg, can you tell me how the NRA "gets" anything for a state such as CCW rights? What do they do that gets the anti-gun politicians and voters to change their minds....Take them out for dinner? Threaten them? Buy them all a new car?...What?
 
only 4 million of the 70 million American gun owners are members of the NRA..some gun owners are even proud to not be members
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So if all 70 million gun owners were NRA members, out of a nation of 300 million, that still put us on the bottom of the polls when voting.

NRA membership isn't a requirement, does anything more for you nor does it put you on any higher status because you are a gun owner no more than if you own a Ford truck and joined the Ford Truck Club.

I probably had donated between $500-$600 to the NRA and another couple hundred to the Illinois State Rifle Association and quite a bit also to the Gun Owners of America. Probably close to $1,000 donated to pro-gun lobby groups. I could of bought everyone I knew a NRA membership and you know what gun rights I was given in Illinois that I didn't have before? I was given the right to move out of my home state of Illinois and have the anti-gun society slam the door on my ass as I left to a more gun friendly Arizona.
Heck, I could of kept my $1,000 and just bought a new gun. :rolleyes:
 
"So if all 70 million gun owners were NRA members, out of a nation of 300 million, that still put us on the bottom of the polls when voting."

That's utter nonsense. First, not all of those 300 million are registered voters, and many registered voters simply don't vote. The margin of victory in the last presidential election, where the losing candidate was arguably the most anti-gun candidate in US history, was 4-5 million votes. Care to guess how many members the NRA has? Even with "only" a few million members, the NRA is the strongest lobbying group of any kind in US politics today. Imagine what we could get accomplished if we had ten times that many members.

jkkimberfan is absolutely right. If everyone who owned a gun in this country joined the NRA, or even just voted like a gun owner, we would never even hear about politicians like Dianne Feinstein and Chuckie Schumer.

Tim
 
I'm going to have to take the NRA to task here in MD. They've openly admitted to trading CCW rights away for leverage against ballistic fingerprinting and MD's draconian AWBs.

Don't get me wrong, I think AWBs and BF are stupid, ineffectual laws that need to go, but those are battles that are almost won, whereas the fight for CCW needs all the help it can get. Funny that I saw this thread, I was actually talking about it tonight with other members of MarylandShallIssue. We largely agree that the time has come to stop bargaining away our CCW rights in the AWB poker game. CCW is THE fight we need to be fighting, and the NRA unfortunately sees the CCW fight as getting in their way. I reject the notion that this is how the game is played.
 
"Don't get me wrong, I think AWBs and BF are stupid, ineffectual laws that need to go, but those are battles that are almost won"

What makes you think they're almost won?

Tim
 
The AWB has sunsetted, and there's little hope for the anti-gunners to get it re-enacted. Ballistic fingerprinting is an unfunded mandate that from what I can tell has resulted in one homicide getting cleared after a cost of millions of dollars.

CCW is the fight we need to be fighting.
 
The NRA is doing it's best for those of us caught behind enemy ("blue") lines in CA, MA, NJ, etc., by supporting republicans on the national level, so that we can get good solid judges on the supreme court. The only way we're going to make progress in these democratic states is through supreme court rulings from a constructionalist bench.

Which is why it's critical that the republicans maintain their majority through the 2006 elections, then in 2008 another republican president. Both Ginsberg and Stevens are very close to retirement, if those two left-wingers are replaced by constructionalist judges, then we can get unanimous/near unanimous pro-RKBA rulings. Then, and only then, will CCW and the rest be possible in the blue states.
 
Doing it's best? I'm not sure how sacrificing the CCW movement on the altar of political expediency is "it's best", but let's consider the larger argument.

Assuming that the SCOTUS is stacked with five pro-RKBA justices, we'll need a case to rise to the court that has CCW implications. MD is a good candidate, as we have several citizens who want to carry and have appealed their permit denials to our state appeals court. The question becomes whether one of those courts at the federal level will hear the case; just getting the right justices on the SCOTUS isn't enough. By implication, just voting Republican isn't enough either. In fact, if the Republicans know they're not having to compete for gun votes at all, they'll just keep paying lip service to the issue and focus on something else with their political capital. Bi-partisan support is the way we'll get there.
 
Yes, let's consider the big picture. Here in California we not only have an "assault weapon" ban that's tougher than the Federal one, we have outlawed 50 cal bolt action rifles, and have a constant stream of "crime fighting" and "gun safety" measures to contend with. Ballistic fingerprinting? Sheesh. We not only have to fight that, we have to fight things like putting serial numbers on every round of ammo, guns that imprint a serial number on the primer, nickel a round tax on ammo, loaded chamber indicators, only "safe" guns allowed... Shall I go on? I can, easily.

This may come as a shock to some here, but as a gun rights issue, CCW is a fart in the wind to people in states like California. We're just trying to keep our heads above water here. Are you ready? Here they come; a whole stream of sanctimonious posts:

"Move out! I bless the day I left that socialist hellhole and moved to Idaho."

There are many reasonable responses to that line of thought, but just consider this: California, less than one lifetime ago, was just like the rest of the country. People had gun racks in their pickups, and no one even raised an eyebrow if there was a gun in one. I am not making this up. I've lived here all my life, and I can tell you it all changed in the sixties, when leftists came from all over the country to be hippies here.

It could easily happen again in any of the gun-friendly states. Almost every state has pockets of "blueness" here and there, and if you talk to the longtime locals, they'll tell you the same thing: for the most part it's leftists moving there from somewhere else. Running away is not the answer.

Tim
 
I'm not sure how sacrificing the CCW movement on the altar of political expediency is "it's best"
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It's not a sacrifice if the issue is impossible anyway. As TimRB points out, the liberal/left has made CA hostile to all gun ownership, to push for CCW in such a climate is counter-productive. Only through the supreme court can the 2nd amendment rights of "blue" state Americans can be restored.

Bi-partisan support is the way we'll get there.
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You're living in a fantasy world. The liberal/left, in the form of the democratic party, has declared war on American's 2nd amendment rights. It's the democratic party that has, and is, spearheading anti-RKBA legislation, it's the democratically run "blue" states with the most restrictive gun laws, and it's the democratic party that the brady campaign, handgun violence, etc., all support. The democratic party is proven, and well proven, to be the party of the gun grabbers. So exactly where is this "Bi-partisan support" going to come from?
 
As TimRB points out, the liberal/left has made CA hostile to all gun ownership, to push for CCW in such a climate is counter-productive.
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How is pushing for something that should be our right counter productive? It might be unproductive in that you don't succeed right away, but that doesn't equate to not being worthwhile.

Only through the supreme court can the 2nd amendment rights of "blue" state Americans can be restored.
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I'd welcome any support for CCW and the RKBA, even if it comes from the federals. Usually it's conservatives suggesting that's something we don't want. Interesting. I personally would like to see HR1243 or something similar.

You're living in a fantasy world.
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No, I'd say I'm living in a world of pragmatic reality--for example, here in MD its simply not realistic to think we'll ever get the CCW rights we want unless we win over some Democrats. If you disagree...fine, but you're the one living in the fantasy world. Look, we can spare the peanut gallery another "Dems are the enemy" thread, everyone knows the leadership is on the wrong side of the issue. So what do I do? I support the progun Dems we have in our state legislature, like Gianetti, Jimeno, etc. You protect your friends and campaign against your enemies.

Tonight I had the pleasure of meeting both Sandy Froman, NRA President, and Chris Cox, Legislative Director of the NRA-ILA. They both talked with me about the fact that we don't have to win over every Democrat, just enough to compensate for the Republican defectors, so I'd say they'd disagree with you as well.
 
The NRA is not doing anything in CA. . But they don't mind calling twice a month asking for donations to help others . Join the Califonnia Rifel and Pistol culb , at least they are trying to help us
 
"No, I'd say I'm living in a world of pragmatic reality--for example, here in MD its simply not realistic to think we'll ever get the CCW rights we want unless we win over some Democrats."

By the way, what makes you think you have a right to concealed carry? You'd better be careful what you wish for, because if the US Supreme Court ever gets to rule on the issue, even a conservative court may well decide that concealed carry is militarily insignificant and thus is not protected by the Second Amendment.

Tim
 
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