What's the most reliable pocket 9mm or 380?
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Cheapshooter
New member
No, it's an attempt at a large, and growing market of people who don't always wear baggy clown pants to conceal a compact belt pistol in their pocket.
At nearly the same dimensions, although 5 ounces heavier, I don't consider my XD40 Sub Compact (another 100% reliable pistol approaching the 1K round count) a "pocket" pistol, the subject of this thread.
Even my Kahr CM 9 is only concealable in some pockets. Or if it is concealed it's sometimes difficult to draw from the pocket with my hand surrounding it with a firm grip.
The Verminator
Moderator
Tight pants are for kids. Tailor the wardrobe to the need.
Wishful thinking and writing cannot change the fact that the lesser breeds simply don't achieve Glock Perfection.
That's why Glock rules the pistol market. You can't do that with fantasy.
Wishful thinking and writing cannot change the fact that the lesser breeds simply don't achieve Glock Perfection.
That's why Glock rules the pistol market. You can't do that with fantasy.
Onward Allusion
New member
Out of the following pocket .380's owned: LCP, P3AT, NAA - The NAA Guardian was flawless but also the most painful to shoot due to its straight blow-back design.
I no longer have the LCP or NAA. They are both heavier than the P3AT and I think that outside of reliability, weight is the other critical factor in any pocket pistol.
9mm's IMO aren't pocket pistols. Unless you're a really big guy or always wear cargo shorts, it pretty hard to fit a 9mm in your pants pocket. Maybe the Rohrbaugh but going for close to $2K for the original Rohrbaugh mfr'd ones, it's not a gun for CCW for the common man. Now that the Green-Monster owns the Rohrbaugh design, it seems that they are only making the gun in .380.
I no longer have the LCP or NAA. They are both heavier than the P3AT and I think that outside of reliability, weight is the other critical factor in any pocket pistol.
9mm's IMO aren't pocket pistols. Unless you're a really big guy or always wear cargo shorts, it pretty hard to fit a 9mm in your pants pocket. Maybe the Rohrbaugh but going for close to $2K for the original Rohrbaugh mfr'd ones, it's not a gun for CCW for the common man. Now that the Green-Monster owns the Rohrbaugh design, it seems that they are only making the gun in .380.
slick slidestop
New member
My Ruger LCP and My Kahr PM9 have been very reliable so far, and I have had them for several years.
Cheapshooter
New member
If it weren't so utterly ridiculous you would have a great comedy routine there!
Yes, Glock builds a very good, utilitarian product. But so do many other gun makers. Several of which make guns far closer to "perfection" in the purpose mentioned in this thread.
I guess one sign of Glock Perfection is having it's own name for an exploding gun. The "Block KaBoom"! Another for it's own injury, "Glock Toe" Although resulting from operator negligence, still in part to do with a less than perfect safety design.
By the way, I'm no kid, and my pants aren't generally tight. Just some pockets, and pocket openings on the comfortable ones.
Cheapshooter
New member
Examples of "Glock Perfection"
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...&mid=77F290F52012C814CE2B77F290F52012C814CE2B
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...&mid=F993C7D01ED658147C46F993C7D01ED658147C46
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...&mid=0EA6CD435AF21959F62F0EA6CD435AF21959F62F
Now, enough of the distraction caused by "Glock Fantisy", and back to the OP.
There are many makes, and brands of reliable 380 and 9MM pocket guns. The very term can be defined differently by many. The important thing is that the chosen make and model fit you, your needs, and your style of dress. Then weather you call it "break-in", "shake down", or whatever, proving to yourself that the gun functions reliably, and accurately in your hands. No amount of advertising, providing free guns to LE, or building an over exuberant "cult" following will make one brand "superior" to others.
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...&mid=77F290F52012C814CE2B77F290F52012C814CE2B
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...&mid=F993C7D01ED658147C46F993C7D01ED658147C46
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...&mid=0EA6CD435AF21959F62F0EA6CD435AF21959F62F
Now, enough of the distraction caused by "Glock Fantisy", and back to the OP.
There are many makes, and brands of reliable 380 and 9MM pocket guns. The very term can be defined differently by many. The important thing is that the chosen make and model fit you, your needs, and your style of dress. Then weather you call it "break-in", "shake down", or whatever, proving to yourself that the gun functions reliably, and accurately in your hands. No amount of advertising, providing free guns to LE, or building an over exuberant "cult" following will make one brand "superior" to others.
The Verminator
Moderator
Of course all guns can fail.
But the reason Glock dominates is because Glocks fail far less often than the lesser guns.
That's what Glock Perfection means. Glocks work (and people want guns that work.)
You can't beat that with wishful thinking or naive and easily dashed hopes.
Spend the money.
Spend it wisely.
Get the best.
But the reason Glock dominates is because Glocks fail far less often than the lesser guns.
That's what Glock Perfection means. Glocks work (and people want guns that work.)
You can't beat that with wishful thinking or naive and easily dashed hopes.
Spend the money.
Spend it wisely.
Get the best.
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IMO true pocket design handguns are better kept in the .380 realm due in large part to my wardrobe. If you prefer cargo pants or baggier pockets, your options open up though.
However, for 9mm's I think the Kahr CM/PM9 is hard to beat. I have nothing against Glocks (infact I really like the G36), but their double stack design does not bode well for pocket carry. The Glock 42 is still a good bit larger than the true pocket competition (P380, LCP/P3AT, etc.), but it does provide a nice choice in-between the can barely hold .380's and something like a Walther PPK/s.
Honestly, your best bet is to handle a few at a shop, dressed how you would normally be. If the Glock fits well and you are comfortable with it, there you go. My thoughts have always leaned more towards the largest gun you can comfortably carry (which is why I am considering a USP Compact), so if the Glock is too big, scale it down a bit. A Ruger, Kahr, S&W Shield or Sig P238 would all be good choices as well, depending on what you are after. The trigger on my Kahr K9 is one of my favorite, and because of that it was the first pistol I purchased that did not have an exposed hammer. You also have revolvers if your faith in autoloaders has faltered after your last two. J frames are great for pocket carry, especially their Centennial Line... Although they are typically more difficult to shoot.
I would not want to carry a P238 in my pocket, nor do I care for the Glock trigger "safety." I do not mean that as a slam on Glocks, but for striker fired handguns I prefer something with a little bit longer trigger pull (or with a safety. These are just my opinions, and they are most certainly not the end all be all as plenty of people pocket carry those two on a daily basis.
However, for 9mm's I think the Kahr CM/PM9 is hard to beat. I have nothing against Glocks (infact I really like the G36), but their double stack design does not bode well for pocket carry. The Glock 42 is still a good bit larger than the true pocket competition (P380, LCP/P3AT, etc.), but it does provide a nice choice in-between the can barely hold .380's and something like a Walther PPK/s.
Honestly, your best bet is to handle a few at a shop, dressed how you would normally be. If the Glock fits well and you are comfortable with it, there you go. My thoughts have always leaned more towards the largest gun you can comfortably carry (which is why I am considering a USP Compact), so if the Glock is too big, scale it down a bit. A Ruger, Kahr, S&W Shield or Sig P238 would all be good choices as well, depending on what you are after. The trigger on my Kahr K9 is one of my favorite, and because of that it was the first pistol I purchased that did not have an exposed hammer. You also have revolvers if your faith in autoloaders has faltered after your last two. J frames are great for pocket carry, especially their Centennial Line... Although they are typically more difficult to shoot.
I would not want to carry a P238 in my pocket, nor do I care for the Glock trigger "safety." I do not mean that as a slam on Glocks, but for striker fired handguns I prefer something with a little bit longer trigger pull (or with a safety. These are just my opinions, and they are most certainly not the end all be all as plenty of people pocket carry those two on a daily basis.
Cheapshooter
New member
There, fixed it for you!
(And I don't even own a Sig)
Just never heard the term "Sig KaBoom"!
Point is>>>>>>>> Glock IS NOT the only quality handgun on the market. What they do excell in is marketing, advertising, and hype.
But this is not a Glock thread. This is a thread about reliable pocket pistols. So I will leave it at this, and hope you have the decency, and respect to the OP to do the same so the information about many reliable pocket pistols, including Glock, can be shared.
Darker Loaf
New member
From my own personal experience, the best "pocket" 9mm's that I've shot have been from Kahr's all metal series: the MK9, K9, and T9's. I've never had any of them require a break in or have any issues that would impair their function. The most trigger time that I've had on any of them is the K9 Elite, which is of slightly higher quality than the regular MK9 or K9 or even the T9. I've put roughly 3,000 rounds through my K9 without a hiccup, and it is a pleasure to shoot. The only potential knock against Kahrs is the trigger. It is striker fired but is long and heavy with a long reset like a DAO gun. The DAO-like trigger on Kahrs have been a turn-off for almost every shooter that has fired any of my Kahrs. New shooters tend to gravitate towards more "true"/classic striker triggers like the XDS or Glocks or single-action triggers. I'll admit that if I don't regularly practice with my Kahrs I have a harder time making hits with them, than I would with my XD (full-size). DA Revolver shooters will probably like the trigger on Kahrs. They are pretty smooth for a DA-esque trigger.
My experience with plastic framed Kahrs have not been as good. I've had trigger time on two CW9's, a P9, and a PM9. I had cycling issues with a CW9 and a PM9.
Oh, the other knock against Kahr's is that some of them have problems (or some people have problems) using an overhand rack or slingshotting the pistol with a full magazine causing a malfunction. Not all people or pistols will experience this problem--my K9 Elite does not, my old CW9 and P9 did. There are workarounds to this problem (using the slide lock instead of racking to load the first round, downloading magazines, or loading the first round without a magazine).
I'm not a fan of LCP's or LC9's or Smith & Wesson Bodyguards. They have even worse triggers than the Kahr series and in general, I find them to be snappier. The P9/CW9 and K9/K9 Elite series guns are of pleasant form factor to shoot. They are like taking a Glock 19 and making it a single-stack, so you have full sized sights and a complete grip four-fingered grip. T9/TP9's are another finger longer in the grip area, so if you have big hands or simply want a longer sight radius, they are good guns.
The PM9/CW9's are snappier to shoot than P9/CW9's. They are only 3-finger guns. Also a bonus feature of Kahrs is that they offer factory ported barrels for the P9/CW9 and K9/K9 Elite series guns, which makes them even more pleasant and controllable to shoot.
Finally, the XDS series guns are a bit heavy, and they are only 3-fingered guns, but they are nice to shoot. Of the above guns, they have the best trigger because they are more like a Glock or XD trigger, being a striker-fired gun without the DAO-like long trigger. I've found them to be easy to shoot, with pleasant recoil, and very accurate. The 9mm is very pleasant and probably the one I would recommend, but I was able to make headshots on a man-sized target quite easily with the .45 ACP version. The recoil is present in the .45 ACP XDS, but not really what I would call "snappy." It's just more of a "push."
If I had to break it down to two guns out of this rambling post, I'd say the XDS 9mm in 3.3" or 4" OR the Kahr K9/MK9. I'd also recommend the "Elite" Kahr models for the slightly better polish job and triggers.
Also, the new Glock 42 (in .380) and Glock 43 are worth looking into. They are slightly wider and heavier than their respective brothers in the plastic Kahr series pistols, but the triggers are likely easier to master much like the XDS series. Though there may be some "growing pains" with these pistols as there are with ANY new release by a manufacturer, they will likely turn out to be reliable and quality firearms.
Of the plastic models I've discussed, the XDS is the chunkiest coming in at all-steel Kahr K9 territory at 23 oz. The Glocks and Rugers are about the same weight per caliber, and the Kahrs are the lightest, per caliber.
OH, my only knocks against the S&W Bodyguard, Ruger LCP, and Ruger LC9 are the triggers and the snappiness. They are still reliable firearms, just not something that is fun to get good at shooting or things that make shooting easier when compared to other "better" "pocket" pistols.
NOTE: Only the Kahr P380 (which I have no experience with) and the Ruger LCP qualify as pocket pistols out of this bunch, at least as far as I would carry them.
My experience with plastic framed Kahrs have not been as good. I've had trigger time on two CW9's, a P9, and a PM9. I had cycling issues with a CW9 and a PM9.
Oh, the other knock against Kahr's is that some of them have problems (or some people have problems) using an overhand rack or slingshotting the pistol with a full magazine causing a malfunction. Not all people or pistols will experience this problem--my K9 Elite does not, my old CW9 and P9 did. There are workarounds to this problem (using the slide lock instead of racking to load the first round, downloading magazines, or loading the first round without a magazine).
I'm not a fan of LCP's or LC9's or Smith & Wesson Bodyguards. They have even worse triggers than the Kahr series and in general, I find them to be snappier. The P9/CW9 and K9/K9 Elite series guns are of pleasant form factor to shoot. They are like taking a Glock 19 and making it a single-stack, so you have full sized sights and a complete grip four-fingered grip. T9/TP9's are another finger longer in the grip area, so if you have big hands or simply want a longer sight radius, they are good guns.
The PM9/CW9's are snappier to shoot than P9/CW9's. They are only 3-finger guns. Also a bonus feature of Kahrs is that they offer factory ported barrels for the P9/CW9 and K9/K9 Elite series guns, which makes them even more pleasant and controllable to shoot.
Finally, the XDS series guns are a bit heavy, and they are only 3-fingered guns, but they are nice to shoot. Of the above guns, they have the best trigger because they are more like a Glock or XD trigger, being a striker-fired gun without the DAO-like long trigger. I've found them to be easy to shoot, with pleasant recoil, and very accurate. The 9mm is very pleasant and probably the one I would recommend, but I was able to make headshots on a man-sized target quite easily with the .45 ACP version. The recoil is present in the .45 ACP XDS, but not really what I would call "snappy." It's just more of a "push."
If I had to break it down to two guns out of this rambling post, I'd say the XDS 9mm in 3.3" or 4" OR the Kahr K9/MK9. I'd also recommend the "Elite" Kahr models for the slightly better polish job and triggers.
Also, the new Glock 42 (in .380) and Glock 43 are worth looking into. They are slightly wider and heavier than their respective brothers in the plastic Kahr series pistols, but the triggers are likely easier to master much like the XDS series. Though there may be some "growing pains" with these pistols as there are with ANY new release by a manufacturer, they will likely turn out to be reliable and quality firearms.
Of the plastic models I've discussed, the XDS is the chunkiest coming in at all-steel Kahr K9 territory at 23 oz. The Glocks and Rugers are about the same weight per caliber, and the Kahrs are the lightest, per caliber.
OH, my only knocks against the S&W Bodyguard, Ruger LCP, and Ruger LC9 are the triggers and the snappiness. They are still reliable firearms, just not something that is fun to get good at shooting or things that make shooting easier when compared to other "better" "pocket" pistols.
NOTE: Only the Kahr P380 (which I have no experience with) and the Ruger LCP qualify as pocket pistols out of this bunch, at least as far as I would carry them.
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The Verminator
Moderator
That's a laughable statement. Gun owners are not stupid. They spend their dollars carefully and share information and do research.
Some gun owners may be fooled ONCE by such things as "hype."
However, "hype" cannot account for world dominance in combat pistolery.
Remember, the OP asked for the "MOST reliable" pistol......not a listing of the lesser stars in the galaxy.
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Alas, a dashed hope.
I own a Glock. I like it. But people who claim that Glocks are the ONLY good guns are demonstrating either inexperience with other brands or a closed mind. There are many quality pistols being made by several companies, including but not limited to Glock, that are extremely reliable. I hope our friend allows himself the pleasure of experiencing some of them sometime. To consider every other pistol made to be "lesser" and the buyers to be lacking in intelligence or knowledge is beyond narrow-minded.
On the original subject of pocket pistols: I have carried a Glock 26 occasionally in cargo shorts, but no way that is going to work with slacks. The only thing in my house that I consider a pocket pistol currently is my wife's Sig P238; that thing is a gem, albeit a bit heavier than some other pistols of similar size. I have thought many times about picking up a LCP, but I haven't yet. The temptation waxes and wanes and it is in a waxing phase right now. I need to quit reading these threads. Or may I need to quit resisting.
The Verminator
Moderator
SLACKS!!! Fancy Schmancy!!
Well then, you obviously need a nickel-plated, pearl-handled Browning .25 Auto.
They're supposed to be FAIRLY reliable according to what I've heard.
Cheapshooter
New member
And if you drive a Chevy or Ford rather than a Cadillac or Lincoln there is the CM9. Same design, less upscale frills. Conventional rifling rather than polygonal which really doesn't mean anytthing a small pocket pistol.
You apparently assume incorrectly that pocket carry is the only option available to me, but I in fact carry IWB far more often. We will not discuss my cover garments, both because this thread is supposed to be about pocket carry and because I do not crave your approval.
Yes, I own slacks, because I work in a professional office, sometimes go to restaurants where the food isn't wrapped in paper, and attend church, weddings, funerals, and other events where such attire is considered appropriate. Grown-up stuff, you wouldn't like it.