Whats the difference?
- Thread starter hogdogs
- Start date
Dragon
First, let me state that your post was well said. However, it is your personal comfort zone and your choice. I too am from the eat what you kill club. I am not bashing you. The intent of Hogs thread was to illustrate that though we may have differing opinions on what fair chase means or what is ethical, we are all hunters in our own right. Some may choose to partake in canned hunts while others may not. The intent here is that as long as the person is in compliance with the game laws, it is that person's right to make the decision that is right for them. And here's the biggie, that we should not judge, but agree to disagree on our personal choices.
First, let me state that your post was well said. However, it is your personal comfort zone and your choice. I too am from the eat what you kill club. I am not bashing you. The intent of Hogs thread was to illustrate that though we may have differing opinions on what fair chase means or what is ethical, we are all hunters in our own right. Some may choose to partake in canned hunts while others may not. The intent here is that as long as the person is in compliance with the game laws, it is that person's right to make the decision that is right for them. And here's the biggie, that we should not judge, but agree to disagree on our personal choices.
Bill, It isn't the being a proponent of fair chase... It is that many hunters frown on others who have a different opinion on hunt methods. Claiming one person is cheating the game by baiting, hunting fenced plots or utilizing any other legal method is what gets my goat a bit. I personally do not have a desire to trophy hunt but don't knock those who do.
Brent
Brent
fisherman66
New member
Koolminx,
How small does the "can" need to be in order to qualify as a canned hunt? 1 square acre? 2 square acres? 3? 50? 100? section?
I don't disagree with your personal view, but the Parks and Wildlife Department defines hunting by limitations in rules and regs. (at least in Texas). I don't have a problem with high fences. I'm just not interested in that kind of hunt.
"Holier than thou" hunters are a little childish. When my son is old enough to hunt I will have a feeder, ground blind, scope, boots, binoculars and a rifle. I will use store bought tools to dress and quarter and eventually butcher. I'll probably use a home range or electric skillet to cooks most of it.
When I go out alone I prefer to still hunt.
Brent - Just because something is legal doesn't mean it is ethical to everyone. All I have ever said in any thread is that certain hunting methods are not for me. What's so wrong with that?
BTW, I also do not think that hunting certain animals with dogs is unethical. For example, it is well documented that wild hogs are getting to be problematic in many areas of the country. In those cases, I think that ANY method to decrease those populations is justified. The same goes for deer and other animals that have overpopulated their range. But, in general, to me and for me 'fair chase' is the way a real hunter takes game.
PS - I'm sorry if I have mistaken your intent in this thread. BTW, if you or anyone else ever wants to come to Idaho to hunt, please consider me a resource in that effort. I would be proud and happy to assist you or anyone else in any way I can.
Last edited:
lizziedog1
New member
What if a hunter has no other options? If a hunter in California wants to hunt wild pheasants, he pretty much has to go on private property. Getting a property owner in California saying yes to a stranger has the about the same odds as one of us having Jessica Alba say yes to a date request. The other option to hunt on pheasant club with planted birds. For most folks in the Golden state it is either this or nothing.
If anyone reading this gets me access to private property to hunt in California I'll buy you a case of your favorite beverage. this is one offer I don't worry about paying, cause it ain't giong to happen.
Again, should hunter in California hunt on a "club" or not hunt at all?
If anyone reading this gets me access to private property to hunt in California I'll buy you a case of your favorite beverage. this is one offer I don't worry about paying, cause it ain't giong to happen.
Again, should hunter in California hunt on a "club" or not hunt at all?
Lizzie
Great point. Too many of us don't get the whole story. I personally wouldn't pay to hunt....I don't have to. But let's look at a what if.
A guy posts a thread, "I just put a deposit down on my $10,000.00 Canadian Whitetail Hunt." Some memebers think....what an idiot. Here's the Paul Harvey, "rest of the story". He is taking his dad who taught him everything he knows about hunting who, BTW, has been just diagnosed with a terminal illness. Is he an idiot now?
The point is we get so caught up in what we do and believe that we shoot down other's points of view. Those are the actions that let the Anti's run through the cracks in our armour. My feeling is, the more diverse we are, the stronger we are as a group. This might sound cliche', but don't knock it until you've tried it might apply here.
Great point. Too many of us don't get the whole story. I personally wouldn't pay to hunt....I don't have to. But let's look at a what if.
A guy posts a thread, "I just put a deposit down on my $10,000.00 Canadian Whitetail Hunt." Some memebers think....what an idiot. Here's the Paul Harvey, "rest of the story". He is taking his dad who taught him everything he knows about hunting who, BTW, has been just diagnosed with a terminal illness. Is he an idiot now?
The point is we get so caught up in what we do and believe that we shoot down other's points of view. Those are the actions that let the Anti's run through the cracks in our armour. My feeling is, the more diverse we are, the stronger we are as a group. This might sound cliche', but don't knock it until you've tried it might apply here.
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
I've been with TFL since it got started. I don't think we've ever really had anybody here seriously advocate unethical behavior, aside from a troll or two.
What I have seen, however, is some degree of stubbornness about some things. Mostly, a lack of understanding or knowledge about why people do certain things, or what is actually being done.
I know of nobody who favors what are called "canned hunts". To me, the "can" means a small pen no more than a residential lot. Maybe even an acre. And I'll accept that there are some (bleeps) who might fence in a piddly little ten acres and sell some sort of "hunt" deal. Okay, that's Bad Stuff.
But I want to know how a hunt inside a high-fenced area of several to many sections can be called "canned". A few weeks ago I was driving along US 90 west of Del Rio. A new high fence was being built. Four miles of highway frontage by my odometer, and no cross fences. The senderos for the side fences went beyond the hills some miles off the highway. Somewhere around ten thousand acres in this "pen". How is hunting in there NOT fair chase?
Why is it difficult for folks to understand that the purpose of a high fence is to keep deer OUT of a pasture where the owner is improving the pasture with native growies and augmented water supplies? He's trying to control the herd to within the carrying capacity of the land. Why is that somehow unethical?
That doesn't mean I approve of these breeding programs for giant deer; I don't. The big problem is that it costs a ton of money to create this proper habitat in country that was ruined long ago by overgrazing with sheep and goats. And the ad valorem tax man doesn't care whether or not you ever recoup your investment. And that's why I don't say much about such doings. The Tax Man Cometh, and he's usually POed.
Then again, you could just leave it as barren old desert where even the buzzards carry rations.
What I have seen, however, is some degree of stubbornness about some things. Mostly, a lack of understanding or knowledge about why people do certain things, or what is actually being done.
I know of nobody who favors what are called "canned hunts". To me, the "can" means a small pen no more than a residential lot. Maybe even an acre. And I'll accept that there are some (bleeps) who might fence in a piddly little ten acres and sell some sort of "hunt" deal. Okay, that's Bad Stuff.
But I want to know how a hunt inside a high-fenced area of several to many sections can be called "canned". A few weeks ago I was driving along US 90 west of Del Rio. A new high fence was being built. Four miles of highway frontage by my odometer, and no cross fences. The senderos for the side fences went beyond the hills some miles off the highway. Somewhere around ten thousand acres in this "pen". How is hunting in there NOT fair chase?
Why is it difficult for folks to understand that the purpose of a high fence is to keep deer OUT of a pasture where the owner is improving the pasture with native growies and augmented water supplies? He's trying to control the herd to within the carrying capacity of the land. Why is that somehow unethical?
That doesn't mean I approve of these breeding programs for giant deer; I don't. The big problem is that it costs a ton of money to create this proper habitat in country that was ruined long ago by overgrazing with sheep and goats. And the ad valorem tax man doesn't care whether or not you ever recoup your investment. And that's why I don't say much about such doings. The Tax Man Cometh, and he's usually POed.
Then again, you could just leave it as barren old desert where even the buzzards carry rations.
snipecatcher
New member
If someone on here can convince every other land owner in Texas to either:
A. Donate their land to the state so I will have public land, or,
B. Take down all of their high fences and feeders, so the deer will come to my small piece of land,
I will partake in a "fair chase" hunt, by your definition.
My family has 70 acres in the TX hill country. Two sides of this are bordered by the neighbors 8' high fence. Everyone around has multiple feeders and food plots. Why on earth would a deer jump the high fence to come to our small plot of land when they have everything they need on Mr Rich's land (literally, Rich Ranch)? Yes, we have feeders, and I hunt and kill deer who are feeding under them. I see no problem with this. I prefer to still hunt, and do so every chance I get. There is a much greater satisfaction with stalking through the woods and taking game, but in the end, it is only for fun. I can count on being able to get a deer from the feeder to fill the freezer. If your forefathers had the technology we have today, they would be using it. They did what they had to in order to bring home meat, including using "inadequate" calibers such as the 30/30.
A. Donate their land to the state so I will have public land, or,
B. Take down all of their high fences and feeders, so the deer will come to my small piece of land,
I will partake in a "fair chase" hunt, by your definition.
My family has 70 acres in the TX hill country. Two sides of this are bordered by the neighbors 8' high fence. Everyone around has multiple feeders and food plots. Why on earth would a deer jump the high fence to come to our small plot of land when they have everything they need on Mr Rich's land (literally, Rich Ranch)? Yes, we have feeders, and I hunt and kill deer who are feeding under them. I see no problem with this. I prefer to still hunt, and do so every chance I get. There is a much greater satisfaction with stalking through the woods and taking game, but in the end, it is only for fun. I can count on being able to get a deer from the feeder to fill the freezer. If your forefathers had the technology we have today, they would be using it. They did what they had to in order to bring home meat, including using "inadequate" calibers such as the 30/30.
What is this with folks bashing baiting??? I don't get it. If you rationalize it, every hunter baits, or at least hunts over/uses bait, atleast they should be. How is hunting next to an oak tree that's dropping acorns different than a guy that throws out a little corn? Both are still hunting over a food source.
What about sitting on a bean field? Natural food or giant bait pile? Am I wrong (by some of you) to not seek out a dropping crab apple tree and hunt over it?
Even spot and stalk hunters are still using food source to a degree. Do you spot and stalk in an area that has absolutly no food source? No, cause there would be no game.
Some of you people need to climb down off your sky scraping horses and think a little bit before you pass judgement.
Everyone uses bait, whether it be a doe in heat scent (or any other scent attractant), a corn pile, a dropping acorn tree, a bean field, a buck decoy, or a call of anykind. Heck, even grazing antelope. It's all "baiting" to a degree. I guess strictly spot and stalk hunters are as close as you can get to bait free. But like I said, you are still depending on the natural bait to keep the animals in the area.
What about sitting on a bean field? Natural food or giant bait pile? Am I wrong (by some of you) to not seek out a dropping crab apple tree and hunt over it?
Even spot and stalk hunters are still using food source to a degree. Do you spot and stalk in an area that has absolutly no food source? No, cause there would be no game.
Some of you people need to climb down off your sky scraping horses and think a little bit before you pass judgement.
Everyone uses bait, whether it be a doe in heat scent (or any other scent attractant), a corn pile, a dropping acorn tree, a bean field, a buck decoy, or a call of anykind. Heck, even grazing antelope. It's all "baiting" to a degree. I guess strictly spot and stalk hunters are as close as you can get to bait free. But like I said, you are still depending on the natural bait to keep the animals in the area.
wyobohunter
New member
Oh, and the car that got me to the woods
I have my limits, I will not do a "canned hunt", but to each his own. I use modern firearms and motorized vehicles, so I can't really claim that I only hunt "fair chase". I Spose it'd be absolutely fair if Moose had 4-wheelers and bullet proof vests.
Rangefinder
New member
Jeez, I'm kinda think another direction. I think we have to keep making modern firearms better to keep up with fair chase! 
The darn deer here are constantly getting smarter, gotta have a better rifle to be able to get 'em. I could walk off my back porch and kill one with a knife, stick, or stone on any given evening right after sundown---that would be easy---right up until opening morning of hunting season. Then they mutate into super-deer with highly evolved senses and reasoning/strategic skills. It's a conspiracy, I tell you!
All right, enough screwing around. When I was a kid I tackled a young muley doe (I was up in a tree when she stopped under the branch I was on), and proceeded to get the ever-loving snot kicked out of me till I wisened up enough to let go. And then there was this moose that use to hang out below our property in the beaver ponds... I was close enough to stick her with primitive weapons quite a few times if I'd wanted to (and here's the key, because I really didn't want to tangle with a cow moose). But if I HAD, she'd probably just give me that look of "Oh, you want a piece of me, little man? Come-on, mama moose is gonna whoop your little white behind and stomp what's left into mud-soup..."
Naw, I do enough the primitive way. Unless I haven't got a choice, I'm gonna keep using my rifle and bow. Recurve is as primitive as I get.
The darn deer here are constantly getting smarter, gotta have a better rifle to be able to get 'em. I could walk off my back porch and kill one with a knife, stick, or stone on any given evening right after sundown---that would be easy---right up until opening morning of hunting season. Then they mutate into super-deer with highly evolved senses and reasoning/strategic skills. It's a conspiracy, I tell you! All right, enough screwing around. When I was a kid I tackled a young muley doe (I was up in a tree when she stopped under the branch I was on), and proceeded to get the ever-loving snot kicked out of me till I wisened up enough to let go. And then there was this moose that use to hang out below our property in the beaver ponds... I was close enough to stick her with primitive weapons quite a few times if I'd wanted to (and here's the key, because I really didn't want to tangle with a cow moose). But if I HAD, she'd probably just give me that look of "Oh, you want a piece of me, little man? Come-on, mama moose is gonna whoop your little white behind and stomp what's left into mud-soup..."
Naw, I do enough the primitive way. Unless I haven't got a choice, I'm gonna keep using my rifle and bow. Recurve is as primitive as I get.
Last edited:
This has been an interesting discussion. Its give a lot of insight into how people hunt in different parts of the country and how that effects the way those people feel about hunting practices else where. I have never hunted out of a tree stand, not because I'm against, but because I can't afford one. The very few times I been able to go hunting. I have gone to places I know well, not because I want a guarantee on a kill, but because I don't have a lot of time to try to learn a new area. I don't believe I'm far off of what other hunters do in this respect. We go when we can where we can, we buy what we can afford. If given the chance to hunt Alaska, I would be absolutely 100% sure to get a guide. Why? If that chance came to me it would more than likely be a once in a life time deal. I would not want to waste it stumbling around the millions of acres of wilderness on a fast track to becoming bear fodder, having no concrete idea where to go. So would that make me unethical?
oneounceload
Moderator
What do you call salt blocks and automatic feeders then?
If anyone feels it necessary, whether by custom, terrain, personal physical limitation, or any other reason to use bait, tree stands, whatever - then have at it as long as your DOW deems it legal. Moral issues are another matter for the individual
http://www.nationalatlas.gov/printable/fedlands.html#list
If you look at this map of Federal owned land. Look at the East coast, those of us that hunt federal game lands on the east coast are hunting canned hunts. You could easily fit any of those parks into leased ranches in the mid-west or Texas. These parks are "fenced" in by areas we can't hunt, like highways, or neighborhoods, and cities.
If you look at this map of Federal owned land. Look at the East coast, those of us that hunt federal game lands on the east coast are hunting canned hunts. You could easily fit any of those parks into leased ranches in the mid-west or Texas. These parks are "fenced" in by areas we can't hunt, like highways, or neighborhoods, and cities.
Fisherman, when I said Canned hunt I was making an overview and I failed to specify that I meant canned to mean a small plot fenced or unfenced, and baited to lure or entice. To me they both mean canned.
Sorry for my lack of explanation and flagrant misuse of the word.
When I hunt, I go out in clothes that have been buried in a leaf compost for about 4 day's, I also wash my hair with scent free soap and then rub saw dust into it then don my cap. Upon arriving at my destination I Still Hunt. Which means I walk until I get my game.
Sometimes I only make 100 yards in an hour of walking, and sometimes I make a hundred yards in 2 minutes. It really depends....
One thing I want you all to know. I do NOT think less of YOU for hunting the way you do. I simply think more of myself than I do of them personally, even when I end up skunked. It's not the same regardless of what's going through your minds from my statement
(Hard to explain)
Just don't assume that I dislike the person simply because of the way he hunts.
Sorry for my lack of explanation and flagrant misuse of the word.
When I hunt, I go out in clothes that have been buried in a leaf compost for about 4 day's, I also wash my hair with scent free soap and then rub saw dust into it then don my cap. Upon arriving at my destination I Still Hunt. Which means I walk until I get my game.
Sometimes I only make 100 yards in an hour of walking, and sometimes I make a hundred yards in 2 minutes. It really depends....
One thing I want you all to know. I do NOT think less of YOU for hunting the way you do. I simply think more of myself than I do of them personally, even when I end up skunked. It's not the same regardless of what's going through your minds from my statement
(Hard to explain)Just don't assume that I dislike the person simply because of the way he hunts.