What's the difference-.38 vs .38 special?

.38 Super has a very tiny rim.

In fact, it's possible to fire the .38 Super in a .357 Mag. revolver. There's just enough rim.
 
I was going to say something about reading the instructions but then I went to the S&W site and looked at the Owner's Manual. It is generic for all models and calibers of recent production revolvers and the material in it about standard and +P ammunition is confusing to ME and I have been doing this stuff for 50+ years.

At one time you would have gotten a leaflet that listed suitable ammunition for that model. It would have said something like ".38 S&W Special also accepting .38 Short Colt, .38 Long Colt, .38 Special Midrange, .38 Special, and .38-44 High Velocity*"

*.38-44 High Velocity was the equivalent of +P+ and would have been recommended only for the big N frame .38s and .357 Magnums.


SPL is the abbreviation for Special. CTG is the abbreviation for Cartridge.
The all caps marking seems to confuse the novice gunowner, but that is all it is, no secret code; although I have been tempted to make something up.
(If you see an older gun marked, say, .32 S&W CTGE, it is not a Smith and Wesson, it is a minor make like Harrington and Richardson or Iver Johnson in the .32 S&W CALIBER. Smith and Wesson do not, did not use CTGE as an abbreviation for Cartridge.)
 
first what all cartridges can I use in my S&W airweight 38 SPL. CTG. ?
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If it is not marked "+P" on the barrel, you should use ammo marked "+P" very sparingly, or avoid it altogether. The aluminum alloy frames on pre-1996 Airweights aren't very strong and are known to stretch or crack with frequent use of +P. :( The K frame (full-size 6-shot) Airweight models are stronger than the J frame (compact 5-shot) models and are better suited to occasional +P use.

Some very early Airweights were made with non-magnetic alloy cylinders. These guns are quite rare and it's very unlikely that you have one, but if you do, DO NOT FIRE IT. The alloy cylinder is too weak to withstand anything but light target loads, which is why S&W stopped using them after only a couple of years. FWIW these guns are valuable collector's items. If you somehow stumbled across one, you should be able to sell it and buy several other guns, or maybe a gun and a nice vacation. ;)
Also what do you guys think of this particular handgun?
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S&W has made a variety of Airweight models. The easiest way to identify a recent one is to look inside the yoke cut for an "M" with a number after it- e.g. "M37-1", which would be a Model 37, engineering revision (dash) 1.
 
Some very early Airweights were made with non-magnetic alloy cylinders. These guns are quite rare and it's very unlikely that you have one, but if you do, DO NOT FIRE IT. The alloy cylinder is too weak to withstand anything but light target loads, which is why S&W stopped using them after only a couple of years. FWIW these guns are valuable collector's items. If you somehow stumbled across one, you should be able to sell it and buy several other guns, or maybe a gun and a nice vacation.
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Also, do not send such a gun back to S&W for repair, refinishing, or anything else. From what I've heard, a alloy-cylinder gun will return from S&W with a steel cylinder thus ruining the collector value.
 
This thread is giving me a headache because it is making something very simple seem to be very complicated.

The bottom line is this: I'm not aware that any of the major manufacturers of revolvers currently produce a ".38" that is chambered for anything other than .38 Special. I'm guessing here, but it's probably been five or six decades or more since Smith manufactured a handgun chambered in .38 S & W and I'm not certain that Ruger, Taurus, or Rossi ever made a gun chambered in that caliber.

I also think that nearly all of the currently manufactured ".38's" will handle .38+Ps but its pretty easy to check that out with the manufacturer of the particular gun.

So, if you have a new or recently manufactured handgun that's a ".38" Special you can confidently assume that it will handle .38 Special and it's reasonably likely that it will also handle .38 Special + P ammunition.

Furthermore, .38 S & W ammunition, as opposed to .38 Special is not that easy to find. I suspect that most stores that sell ammunition over the counter don't stock it, it's a specialty item. I've never seen it in WalMart, that's for sure.
 
About the .38 S&W - .38 Colt New Police - .380-200:
Yes, dimensionally different than the other .38's (none of which are actually .38 caliber - didn't see that anyone mentioned that - some are .356. most are .357-.358). The .38 S&W is .361". It will not fit in many guns chambered for the .38 S&W Special.

Pete
 
I chrono-ed some original 38/44 High Speed ammo this week.

This is real 1940’s vintage 38/44 ammo. It says “.38-44 S.&W. Special” 158 grn Lead bullet. The box says “r266” as the version of the load an it specifically says “specially adapted for the .38-44 Smith and Wesson Special”.

3844_r266.jpg

This is the 38/44 ammo that was chrono-ed.

6.5” 1198+ 1057- 141e 1121m 82s
5.0” 1131+ 1002- 129e 1079m 71s
4.0” 1069+ 739- 330e 1010m 103s (one bad round)

I had a bunch of misfires so I was barely able to get my 12 rounds for testing of each. That is why I was stuck with the one bad round on the 4”. I just ran out of decent ammo otherwise I would have voided the round and shot another one. So do I believe that original 38/44 ammo would have done about 1175 fps out of a 6.5” and 1150 fps out of a 5”? Yes. The degradation of the ammo in the last 70 years could explain my results running a bit slow compared to expectations. We are certainly not far outside the range of belief on the commercial of that vintage. Given the number of duds I had in the box, it would be quite believable that 1175 and 1150 are the targets.
 
The .38-44 cartridge WAS a .38 Special. Same case, same bullet, same dimensions, just loaded to higher pressure and velocity.

Same way a .38 Special +P or a +P+ are .38 Specials. Just more powerful versions.

The fun thing about cartridges is that the exact same cartridge can often have multiple valid names.
 
Although it would be correct to say the .38 S&W is obsolete, they continued to make revolvers in that caliber even after WWII, probably into the 1970s, as did Colt. Colt had this habit of renaming cartridges, so there is a cartridge they called the .38 New Police as well as the .38 Colt Special. Some Ruger Security Sixes were also made in that chambering, presumably for sale in British Commonwealth countries. It was the British service cartridge until finally replaced by the 9mm.

I know I mention this every time the subject comes up but an old US Army manual I have refers to the cartridge as the .38 Regular, which I suppose is a very logical name.
 
Just a tidbit of info - S&W made the Terrier revolver in .38 S&W up to 1974 IIRC.

I don't know how long after WWII, Webley & Scott and Enfield might have made .38 S&W revolvers.
 
obsolete

Although it would be correct to say the .38 S&W is obsolete,
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In the sense of new guns, yes. Ammo, though, is still available from Remington, Fiocchi, Magtech and Winchester. All are bullets in the 142 - 146 grain range.

About the .38/44 being a more robust loading of the .38 Special.....I didn't know that. Learned something, I did. I was thinking along the lines of the .38-40 or the .357/44 Bain & Davis.
Pete
 
The .38-44 loading was sold under a number of different names over the years.

BUT... I don't believe that the HI SPEED cartridges were .38-44s.

The "HI-SPEED" cartridges by Remington used lighter bullets, and were intended primarily to be metal penetrating bullets under their HI-WAY MASTER line of cartridges.

The HI-SPEED .38s I'm familiar with used a 110-gr. bullet and I THINK were for use in any .38 Special.

Remington clearly marked their boxes of .38-44 ammo with very large letters and numbers.

Remington also offered HI-WAY MASTER metal piercing bullets in .38 Super and .45 ACP.

Peters and Winchester also offered high velocity loads in .38 Special, again with lighter bullets, as well as metal piercing varieties.
 
Mike Irwin said:
In fact, it's possible to fire the .38 Super in a .357 Mag. revolver.
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In that case it seems you could also fire the .38 Super in a standard .38 spl. I would think the cylinder length would accept the super. Now from a pressure standpoint maybe not??
 
The .38 Super operates in the same pressure range with the same weight bullets as the .357 Magnum.

Dropping one into a handgun chambered for .38 Special is NOT advisable.
 
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