stubbicatt
New member
Pretty sure that the brake on the tank main guns was to take some of the recoil load off the hydraulic system and chassis allowing a heavier gun to be used without overwhelming the recoil hydraulics.
Whats the deal with muzzle brakes on everything these days??
- Thread starter 98 220 swift
- Start date
Wouldn't own a long-range rifle without one.
When shooting off a bipod, they really minimize "hop"- to the extent that in the 1-1/2 seconds it takes for the bullet to reach the target, the rifle has settled, I've got the target back in the sight picture to spot the shot.
Without one, it would be more difficult (though not necessarily impossible)- and would require a spotter to watch for point of impact.
That said, courtesy required. Heck, I always try to pay attention to the shooters on either side of me anyway. No one wants to have a shot go off next to them just as they're breaking the trigger if avoidable.
With the .50's, the benches on either side are usually vacated unless the place is packed- and then, it's just a matter of coordination- and courtesy (there's that word again) with the shooter so that you're shooting when he's- not...
When shooting off a bipod, they really minimize "hop"- to the extent that in the 1-1/2 seconds it takes for the bullet to reach the target, the rifle has settled, I've got the target back in the sight picture to spot the shot.
Without one, it would be more difficult (though not necessarily impossible)- and would require a spotter to watch for point of impact.
That said, courtesy required. Heck, I always try to pay attention to the shooters on either side of me anyway. No one wants to have a shot go off next to them just as they're breaking the trigger if avoidable.
With the .50's, the benches on either side are usually vacated unless the place is packed- and then, it's just a matter of coordination- and courtesy (there's that word again) with the shooter so that you're shooting when he's- not...
That is an advantage, and probably the main intended design advantage. Particularly important when upgunning an existing tank to a heaver gun.
But not an absolute requirement for all designs. I know of one tank killer design (German, of course
) where they used the same gun used in other tanks with a brake, without either a brake, OR a recoil system for the gun! The gun was mounted to use the vehicle mass to absorb the recoil, and apparently it worked.The main tactical advantage was as stated, less crap kicked up by the muzzle blast right in front of the gun, allowing the crew to see the results of the shot a little sooner, and do what needed doing a little sooner. Was it a tremendous combat winning thing all by itself? No. But I believe is was useful.
precision_shooter
New member
Oh My, how things have changed over the years...
When I joined this site years ago, one of my initial questions had to do with installing a muzzle brake on a .308 target rifle. I got criticized for even suggesting such a thing...
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=261111
Now it seems that it is acceptable by many to put a brake on pretty much anything...
When I joined this site years ago, one of my initial questions had to do with installing a muzzle brake on a .308 target rifle. I got criticized for even suggesting such a thing...
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=261111
Now it seems that it is acceptable by many to put a brake on pretty much anything...
98 220 swift
New member
My big deal is with is it cool to have a brake even if you don't need it? That's What I am getting at. I know there is some guns that benefit from them. But is it more for the cool factor of making more noise or for the looks now a days
FrankenMauser
New member
Awe. That's cute. Has the little guy starting shooting anything bigger than .22 Short yet?
jason.jardine72
New member
Recoil hurts guns recoil short barrels don't get loud from brakes there is no time for gases to build velocity to be effective
I don't know about other people's muzzle brake aspirations, but after putting about 80 rounds on my new shortened MN yesterday, I am putting a much larger and annoying one on this weekend. After 30 minutes, my pretty accurate rifle was shooting fliers all over, and it wasn't the guns fault. I think I am just going to machine my own BMG style brake, the recoil got really tiring even with the soft rubber pad on the archangel extended all the way out. I have a brake on a 300blk pistol because a generic brake was cheaper than a .308 birdcage
FrankenMauser
New member
Then he doesn't understand what he's talking about, or he's support personnel.
Nearly every rifle in the Special Operations arsenal has some kind of brake, compensator, or suppressor attached.
Even the much-maligned M16A2 and M4 flash hiders are actually half decent compensators, and the military even classifies them as muzzle brakes.
...And that's just the M16...
I suspect that the long, thin contour military barrel doesn't respond very well to the large amount of whip that no doubt occurs with the large, heavy aftermarket brakes I see for this rifle.
Not to mention, concentricity and precise porting is required, not a big deal but I wonder about some of these mass-produced monsters I see hanging off the barrels.
If I ever have time to start the next rifle build, I'm going to see if I can cut/re-crown and thread the barrel at the location where it would work for a standard 5/8" brake, and use a smaller, lightweight brake to minimize the effect of the extra weight on the barrel whip. We'll see...
If you end up making your own, let us know how it goes.
elrotundamundo
New member
They're kinda like a spoiler on a Honda
Often muzzle brakes are just marketing, a cheap way for manufacturers to make you think you're getting an extra feature. Case in point, a few years ago I needed a rifle to start hunting again after a hiatus of several years, and having given my rifles to my sons, I had none. A local dealer had a new Mossberg 4x4 in .270 with a scope that he was willing to trade me for a used Glock 22. It came with a muzzle break. It is a light rifle, composite stock, fluted barrel, but still, on a .270? It shot 1/2" groups with factory ammo out of the box, even with the cheap Barska scope. I took of the muzzle break and screwed on the thread cap and the groups opened up to 1 1/2". I put the brake back on and back to 1/2" groups. Probably just harmonics. I think I'll take it off this fall and live with the larger groups. Most shots at game around here are under 100 yards anyway. The recoil is mild either way due to the composite stock and a decent recoil pad.
On the other hand, my son has a .460XVR that has a muzzle brake and it really helps with the recoil and muzzle rise. When we shoot it at the range, we always try to strike up a conversation with nearby shooters and let them know what to expect. Most are curious and intrigued if they get a heads up first, and we try not to shoot it a lot if others nearby are working on groups or sighting in.
Occasionally you run into shooters who just plain don't care for the sound of anything louder than rimfire. We were shooting 44 magnum one day last year at a local indoor range and a guy came in to the next lane to shoot groups with his .22 pistol. Every time we fired he would give us the stink eye and then he walked out. The guy at the counter told us he made a complaint. This is a range that allows any handgun caliber as well as .223 rifles. They even rent out a .500 Smith and Wesson revolver if you want. The clerk basically told him that he could expect loud noises at a shooting range and offered him another lane.
We occasionally shoot the .460 there, as well, but only if it is a slow day and no one is near. It is extremely loud in an indoor range.
Often muzzle brakes are just marketing, a cheap way for manufacturers to make you think you're getting an extra feature. Case in point, a few years ago I needed a rifle to start hunting again after a hiatus of several years, and having given my rifles to my sons, I had none. A local dealer had a new Mossberg 4x4 in .270 with a scope that he was willing to trade me for a used Glock 22. It came with a muzzle break. It is a light rifle, composite stock, fluted barrel, but still, on a .270? It shot 1/2" groups with factory ammo out of the box, even with the cheap Barska scope. I took of the muzzle break and screwed on the thread cap and the groups opened up to 1 1/2". I put the brake back on and back to 1/2" groups. Probably just harmonics. I think I'll take it off this fall and live with the larger groups. Most shots at game around here are under 100 yards anyway. The recoil is mild either way due to the composite stock and a decent recoil pad.
On the other hand, my son has a .460XVR that has a muzzle brake and it really helps with the recoil and muzzle rise. When we shoot it at the range, we always try to strike up a conversation with nearby shooters and let them know what to expect. Most are curious and intrigued if they get a heads up first, and we try not to shoot it a lot if others nearby are working on groups or sighting in.
Occasionally you run into shooters who just plain don't care for the sound of anything louder than rimfire. We were shooting 44 magnum one day last year at a local indoor range and a guy came in to the next lane to shoot groups with his .22 pistol. Every time we fired he would give us the stink eye and then he walked out. The guy at the counter told us he made a complaint. This is a range that allows any handgun caliber as well as .223 rifles. They even rent out a .500 Smith and Wesson revolver if you want. The clerk basically told him that he could expect loud noises at a shooting range and offered him another lane.
We occasionally shoot the .460 there, as well, but only if it is a slow day and no one is near. It is extremely loud in an indoor range.
Just to stir the pot.
There are a lot of "muzzle devices" out there that aren't brakes. Many lump anything that hangs off the end of the barrel as a "brake" but things like flash suppression, bayonet attachment & Blank firing adapters (for semi autos) & grenade launchers are all lumped in together. There's even one designed to "cut" barbed wire by firing a bullet in close contact!
There are a lot of "muzzle devices" out there that aren't brakes. Many lump anything that hangs off the end of the barrel as a "brake" but things like flash suppression, bayonet attachment & Blank firing adapters (for semi autos) & grenade launchers are all lumped in together. There's even one designed to "cut" barbed wire by firing a bullet in close contact!
Model12Win
Moderator
Yeah, what he said.
stubbicatt
New member
Well, I would enjoy hearing his comments about this proposition after he has put 20 rounds prone through a 50 BMG bolt actioned rifle without a brake from a concrete surfaced firing point. Admittedly this is an extreme proposition, but I'll bet after he has finished the first 20, and is handed a second 20 rounds with the choice of installing a brake or repeating the drill, he might choose the rifle with the brake...
Oh. Just to make sure he doesn't flinch, any shot outside the 9 ring requires that he shoot another 5 shots. And no sissy recoil pads or elbow pads either.
Oh so true. The accepted book of knowledge is a moving target. Group think permeates the gun discussion on the internet. It's where myths go from the egg state to the bloated, full grown, growth hormone infused roaster.
"Oh My, how things have changed over the years...
When I joined this site years ago, one of my initial questions had to do with installing a muzzle brake on a .308 target rifle. I got criticized for even suggesting such a thing...
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=261111
Now it seems that it is acceptable by many to put a brake on pretty much anything..."
"Oh My, how things have changed over the years...
When I joined this site years ago, one of my initial questions had to do with installing a muzzle brake on a .308 target rifle. I got criticized for even suggesting such a thing...
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=261111
Now it seems that it is acceptable by many to put a brake on pretty much anything..."