One more thing. Just to show that I don't have it in for Glock these problems do seem to be isolated to the G21. We aren't the only agency that has had these problems. Any other Glock that I have ever fired has been an extremely reliable service pistol. Many of our personnel own various Glock types and were shocked at the problems we experienced with the G21.
What's so special about the Glock?
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john232,
Did I say anything bad about Glock? Am I cutting them down? As a matter of fact I said they are good guns and I own some. I think some people are such fanitics about their Glocks they get upset if anyone says anything about them. I like Sigs much better but if someone cuts them down I don't get upset about it.
115+p,
An example of bidding in the government is the Army choice of the Beretta. The Sig 226 was actually winner of the trials but the Beretta was a few dollars cheaper.
If you like Glock buy it, if you like Sig buy it, if you like Beretta buy it, buy which ever gun works best for you. But lets not get so into a particular brand of gun that you turn into a fantic, EVERY gun has some problems period.
[This message has been edited by mrat (edited February 27, 2000).]
Did I say anything bad about Glock? Am I cutting them down? As a matter of fact I said they are good guns and I own some. I think some people are such fanitics about their Glocks they get upset if anyone says anything about them. I like Sigs much better but if someone cuts them down I don't get upset about it.
115+p,
An example of bidding in the government is the Army choice of the Beretta. The Sig 226 was actually winner of the trials but the Beretta was a few dollars cheaper.
If you like Glock buy it, if you like Sig buy it, if you like Beretta buy it, buy which ever gun works best for you. But lets not get so into a particular brand of gun that you turn into a fantic, EVERY gun has some problems period.
[This message has been edited by mrat (edited February 27, 2000).]
WalterGAII
Moderator
I'd personally like to witness a range with several hundred Kansas State Troopers trying to get their Glocks to work. I never had any trouble putting over 25,000 rounds through my Glock 21.
Yep,
The first day at the range was quite something. Many of our old line troops were pretty vocal when they found out that they'd have to carry that "squirt pistol". Many comments were heard like "Doesn't it fit your hand ? Well let me break out my pocket knife and whittle on it." Or "Shooting to the left? No problem, I'll just lay it on the car seat in the sun for awhile."
You should have heard everybody when the pistols started malfunctioning. I thought that the range master was about to be lynched. To Glocks credit once they were told about the problem (of course, they already knew) they told us that new mags would be delivered. Supposedly the new mags are in but haven't been delivered to the field. Unfortunately the desk jockeys aren't too concerned. After all, no pistol is an adequate defense against a paper cut.
The first day at the range was quite something. Many of our old line troops were pretty vocal when they found out that they'd have to carry that "squirt pistol". Many comments were heard like "Doesn't it fit your hand ? Well let me break out my pocket knife and whittle on it." Or "Shooting to the left? No problem, I'll just lay it on the car seat in the sun for awhile."
You should have heard everybody when the pistols started malfunctioning. I thought that the range master was about to be lynched. To Glocks credit once they were told about the problem (of course, they already knew) they told us that new mags would be delivered. Supposedly the new mags are in but haven't been delivered to the field. Unfortunately the desk jockeys aren't too concerned. After all, no pistol is an adequate defense against a paper cut.
For people like me, not an experienced shooter and a not-very-strong woman, the Glock has the additional advantage that every time one pulls the trigger the strength required is the same. In a gun which can be cocked there are different strengths required depending on whether it is cocked or not. Having the same pull all the time helps me with accuracy.
I know that experienced and well-trained shooters often like the 1911 partly because of the single-action and double-action possiblities, and everyone should use what suits them.
I think this is also one reason why police departments use it. Some new police officers have never fired a gun of any kind and a gun like a 1911 requires more training. Perhaps this is why the SWAT teams of the FBI use 1911 while the street agents (who are often accountants or lawyers) use Glocks.
I know that experienced and well-trained shooters often like the 1911 partly because of the single-action and double-action possiblities, and everyone should use what suits them.
I think this is also one reason why police departments use it. Some new police officers have never fired a gun of any kind and a gun like a 1911 requires more training. Perhaps this is why the SWAT teams of the FBI use 1911 while the street agents (who are often accountants or lawyers) use Glocks.
parabellum
New member
Well, alright then, sir. I am glad to hear you say that you didn't sign your post as you did to lend credence to your claims. That is a horse of a different color.
I can see by your subsequent posts that you are doing your best to be objective about this subject. I respect that.
Rest assured that I will attempt to verify your statements through independent sources. All the best, trooper.
I can see by your subsequent posts that you are doing your best to be objective about this subject. I respect that.
Rest assured that I will attempt to verify your statements through independent sources. All the best, trooper.
Why is it so difficult for some to believe that Glock pistols can have problems? They're man made things not holy relics for crying out loud. If you haven't had any trouble with your Glocks that doesn't mean everybody's experiences must mirror your own.
For the latest "upgrade" see http://glocktalk.com/docs/gtubb/Forum3/HTML/007744.html
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So many pistols, so little money.
For the latest "upgrade" see http://glocktalk.com/docs/gtubb/Forum3/HTML/007744.html
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So many pistols, so little money.
parabellum
New member
I can't speak for anyone else, Telecote, but I have no misconceptions about Glocks. Any mechanical device is prone to breakage, defects, or other assorted problems. Certainly handguns are no exception.
Please note that in my original post, I used the word "hyperbole" and not "prevarication". All the difference in the world. My point of contention with 224's claims was the number of officers said to be having the problem, and not the problem itself.
Certainly there are those that choose to deify Glocks. I have as much contempt for them as I do for those who choose to falsely condemn Glocks, or any firearm for that matter.
Please note that in my original post, I used the word "hyperbole" and not "prevarication". All the difference in the world. My point of contention with 224's claims was the number of officers said to be having the problem, and not the problem itself.
Certainly there are those that choose to deify Glocks. I have as much contempt for them as I do for those who choose to falsely condemn Glocks, or any firearm for that matter.
I will say this, I have had a grand total of one failure to feed with my issue G21(that's good with any pistol). We have some that haven't had a glitch from day one and some that don't seem to work no matter what. Mine does fit my hand better than the previous Sig, and I do like the trigger pull better. As I see it the biggest advantage of the Glock is that it's just about as idiot proof as a semi-auto can get. Point it and pull the trigger. No levers or buttons to push, just keep your finger of the trigger until ready (it's amazing how many people have a problem with that). As long as the new mags fix the problem I'll consider us well armed. I guess the thing that really chaps my buttocks is the fact that Glock knew about the problem before hand and gave us the guns anyway.
244,
I stand corrected, and i am sorry, i forgot all about "those" problems, and i have also had a very similar (if not the exact same problem) with my G20 a while back. I fixed the problem (as i refuse to wait for Glock) by "testing" the spring and follower by repeated "shoving" of the assembly into the mag until i figured out that if i twisted the spring in the opposite direction of the "hang-up" the problem went away and hasnt come back. The problem i had did not originate with Glock, but originated by my own doing when i took out the spring and stretched it out and twisted it unknowingly.
The problems you describe are really not a problem with the gun so much as a problem with the company itself called Glock. I am also a manufacturer, and if my employees (or myself) screw up on a process, all bets are off and the product is as good as worthless.
Your LEO agency is not the only one that has had the problems you describe. I thought you were refering to the San Bernardino Co. Sheriffs in California until i read further in this thread to find out otherwise.
I wish i could have responded to this thread earlier, appologized, and provided you with a little back-up... again i'm sorry... I also have a few "issues" with Glock "perfection", but, Glock happens to make the best 10mm out there, and until i find a better one, Glock is it. I can assure you though, if the Glock you have in your hand is "in proper Glock form" it will be reliable. Glock the company should be ashamed of themselves. I know i would be.
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Reality ALWAYS takes precedence.
I stand corrected, and i am sorry, i forgot all about "those" problems, and i have also had a very similar (if not the exact same problem) with my G20 a while back. I fixed the problem (as i refuse to wait for Glock) by "testing" the spring and follower by repeated "shoving" of the assembly into the mag until i figured out that if i twisted the spring in the opposite direction of the "hang-up" the problem went away and hasnt come back. The problem i had did not originate with Glock, but originated by my own doing when i took out the spring and stretched it out and twisted it unknowingly.
The problems you describe are really not a problem with the gun so much as a problem with the company itself called Glock. I am also a manufacturer, and if my employees (or myself) screw up on a process, all bets are off and the product is as good as worthless.
Your LEO agency is not the only one that has had the problems you describe. I thought you were refering to the San Bernardino Co. Sheriffs in California until i read further in this thread to find out otherwise.
I wish i could have responded to this thread earlier, appologized, and provided you with a little back-up... again i'm sorry... I also have a few "issues" with Glock "perfection", but, Glock happens to make the best 10mm out there, and until i find a better one, Glock is it. I can assure you though, if the Glock you have in your hand is "in proper Glock form" it will be reliable. Glock the company should be ashamed of themselves. I know i would be.
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Reality ALWAYS takes precedence.
killer45auto
New member
I am still trying to figure out the appeal of the glock myself,I`m not saying i don`t like them ,i have a 31 in .357 sig.Its a great gun when it does not hang up.Ive tried 4 different mags in it and still no fix.Ive never had this problem with any 1911,as i`ve got many and love every one the go boom every time i pull the trigger with factory ammo!I cannot say that for the glock yet!The main reason i got it was for its so called great feeding ability(where`s it at?)and the fact it is extremely durable.atleast it has that part down.The accuracy is also lacking,nothing like my well tuned 1911`s.Other than that its ok.
I think much of the appeal has been generated by the media. The name Glock has almost become a household word. Harley Davidson also benefited from a similar phenomenon.
Are they a great weapon?
I think they are.
Are they the end all to be all of firearms?
Of course not.
Are they my weapon of choice?
No.
If it was the only pistol available to me would I be unhappy?
Hell no.
I have had a few friends that wanted a pistol for the first time ,and not knowing a thing about any of them , all of them wanted a GLOCK.
You know all the other Gun Makers just wish they had that kind of product recognition.
Had a early G17 that never once had a problem,just wasn't the pistol for me.
Given a choice between a 1911 style pistol(the holy grail of the pistol world to many) and a Glock,I would take the Glock every time.
Fortunately,we are not limited to one or two types/brands of pistols.
On a seperate note:
I thought that the Beretta 92SB-F and the Sig 226 both passed all the M9 pistol trials tests and that the Beretta won the final bidding phase.
Are they a great weapon?
I think they are.
Are they the end all to be all of firearms?
Of course not.
Are they my weapon of choice?
No.
If it was the only pistol available to me would I be unhappy?
Hell no.
I have had a few friends that wanted a pistol for the first time ,and not knowing a thing about any of them , all of them wanted a GLOCK.
You know all the other Gun Makers just wish they had that kind of product recognition.
Had a early G17 that never once had a problem,just wasn't the pistol for me.
Given a choice between a 1911 style pistol(the holy grail of the pistol world to many) and a Glock,I would take the Glock every time.
Fortunately,we are not limited to one or two types/brands of pistols.
On a seperate note:
I thought that the Beretta 92SB-F and the Sig 226 both passed all the M9 pistol trials tests and that the Beretta won the final bidding phase.
Mrat, as far as i can remember, the San Berdu Sheriffs had the same problems with the magazine followers. Not a problem with the gun so much as a problem with Glock's quality control.
As for the .357 sig having a problem feeding, i would check to see if you are getting a little too relaxed with you grip and wrist (limp wristing) and make sure you are shooting good quality ammo.
I think the Glocks biggest problem is that Gaston chose to say "Glock Perfection" for their advertising slogan..... Now everybody automatically expects to find "perfection" right out of EVERY box... Hey, it's a machine... and there are a crap load of 'em out there, so with human error, some of those puppies are going to be less than "perfect", however you define perfect.
I just had a customer call me a couple days ago, (he lucked out and got a 10mm G20 that is accurate like a mutha)... he decided to compete with it, and this last weekend he took FIRST place with it, and was also the ONLY one shooting that made major! All the guys with their STI's and the like couldnt believe it!
All he did to it was put a 3.5# trigger in it, polish the trigger, put a tigger stop screw in the trigger, and he put an Agrip gun grip on it... (i dont know what he's doing for sights).
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Reality ALWAYS takes precedence.
As for the .357 sig having a problem feeding, i would check to see if you are getting a little too relaxed with you grip and wrist (limp wristing) and make sure you are shooting good quality ammo.
I think the Glocks biggest problem is that Gaston chose to say "Glock Perfection" for their advertising slogan..... Now everybody automatically expects to find "perfection" right out of EVERY box... Hey, it's a machine... and there are a crap load of 'em out there, so with human error, some of those puppies are going to be less than "perfect", however you define perfect.
I just had a customer call me a couple days ago, (he lucked out and got a 10mm G20 that is accurate like a mutha)... he decided to compete with it, and this last weekend he took FIRST place with it, and was also the ONLY one shooting that made major! All the guys with their STI's and the like couldnt believe it!
All he did to it was put a 3.5# trigger in it, polish the trigger, put a tigger stop screw in the trigger, and he put an Agrip gun grip on it... (i dont know what he's doing for sights).
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Reality ALWAYS takes precedence.
Simply put:
1. The Glock has a consistent trigger pull from the first to last shot.
2. There are no manual safeties or decocking devices to screw up before or after the shooting experience. Instead, it has 3 passive safeties that work excellently.
3. You put your finger on the trigger when you are ready to shoot and it works.
4. You take your trigger off the trigger when you're done, and you simply holster it.
5. It is probably one of the easiest of all pistols to maintain.
6. It is amazingly simple and has less parts than other pistols.
cons:
My personal opinion is that the Glock barrels suck. Glock claims the unsupported chamber in the 6'oclock postion and oversized chamber are necessary for the gun to function.
Not so. A good aftermarket barrel still functions well and you don't have to worry about a kB! with reloads or factory ammo.
As mentioned in another email, I recently bought a Glock 35. I fired some rounds through it and then measured the brass. I was appalled to see that the brass had expanded from .421 to .433 -- this is ridiculous and unsafe even for factory ammo. A good aftermarket barrel expands the brass to around .428, which is a safe level.
I can't believe Glock continues to tell people that nothing is wrong with their guns and that it's the ammo. I certainly wouldn't mind having a more beefed up .40 case however, since it doesn't look like Glock will ever change.
1. The Glock has a consistent trigger pull from the first to last shot.
2. There are no manual safeties or decocking devices to screw up before or after the shooting experience. Instead, it has 3 passive safeties that work excellently.
3. You put your finger on the trigger when you are ready to shoot and it works.
4. You take your trigger off the trigger when you're done, and you simply holster it.
5. It is probably one of the easiest of all pistols to maintain.
6. It is amazingly simple and has less parts than other pistols.
cons:
My personal opinion is that the Glock barrels suck. Glock claims the unsupported chamber in the 6'oclock postion and oversized chamber are necessary for the gun to function.
Not so. A good aftermarket barrel still functions well and you don't have to worry about a kB! with reloads or factory ammo.
As mentioned in another email, I recently bought a Glock 35. I fired some rounds through it and then measured the brass. I was appalled to see that the brass had expanded from .421 to .433 -- this is ridiculous and unsafe even for factory ammo. A good aftermarket barrel expands the brass to around .428, which is a safe level.
I can't believe Glock continues to tell people that nothing is wrong with their guns and that it's the ammo. I certainly wouldn't mind having a more beefed up .40 case however, since it doesn't look like Glock will ever change.
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