I keep hearing that Glocks are issued more to LEOs that any other guns because they are some kind of super gun. The answer is simple. The big one is price, second is the transition from revolvers to Glocks is easier, third they are simple to use and four they are durable. So yes I do think LE agencies issue Gocks even though there is nothing "so special" about them. Keep in mind we are talking about government agencies that do purchase lowest bid. The Beretta 92F is a perfect example of this. The gun that won the Army trials was not the Beretta but the Sig 226. The reason the Army chose the Beretta was $$$$$. The reason a lot of civilians are buying Glocks is because people believe that LE agencies do some kind of stringent testing of their guns and pick the best one on the market. This is not true, most agencies do not do any testing but go along with the herd. I own three Glocks and I think they are good guns but I carry a Sig on duty and off duty.
What's so special about the Glock?
- Thread starter FUD
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Glocks are great guns. But they are not perfect. While I have two of them and carry one daily, I do have some problems with them. Some like the grip shape and angle, I can't stand it. It points high and strains my hand to get a good grip. It's very unnatural feeling. Also the slide is a little too blocky and bulky for me. If they changed these two things I would have nothing but praise for them. That being said, they go bang when you pull the trigger. They're reliable and easy to maintain. So until something more ergonomical comes along, I will continue to carry one. Personally I think that a 1911 format pistol is the pinnacle of ergonomics, but I don't have the $$$ to get one that is as dependable as a glock for duty use.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FUD:
I sometimes feel that I might be missing out on something good (after all, I didn't understand the appeal of the 1911 until just a couple of years ago), so I ask this question in all seriousness (with no intention of starting any flame war): What is so special about the Glock?
I sometimes go shooting with my wife's cousin's husband and he has a 10mm (not a .40S&W but a 10mm) Glock (I'm not sure of the model number but it's full size). We frequently swap pistols at the range and I don't see anything special about it. It's reliable & accurate but so are my Browning and S&W pistols, and it feels a little strange in the hand and the trigger seems a little odd.
Can anyone enlighten me to what is the special appeal of the Glocks?
[/quote]
I sometimes feel that I might be missing out on something good (after all, I didn't understand the appeal of the 1911 until just a couple of years ago), so I ask this question in all seriousness (with no intention of starting any flame war): What is so special about the Glock?
I sometimes go shooting with my wife's cousin's husband and he has a 10mm (not a .40S&W but a 10mm) Glock (I'm not sure of the model number but it's full size). We frequently swap pistols at the range and I don't see anything special about it. It's reliable & accurate but so are my Browning and S&W pistols, and it feels a little strange in the hand and the trigger seems a little odd.
Can anyone enlighten me to what is the special appeal of the Glocks?
[/quote]
What's so special about a Glock? Not a darned thing (yes I *have* to carry one).
"Sixty perecent of all LE agencies carry the Glock." That has nothing to due with it being the best. We carry it for one simple reason "low bid".
"Glocks shoot every time." If you think that's true then you haven't shot one enough. I recently spent several days on the range with several *hundred* Glocks that wouldn't work right.
Of course we can all rest easy in knowing that if we ever choose to throw our bavarian squirt pistol from a helicopter it will still work (if we could find it). I guess if I ever drop it and run over it when pulling out of the driveway I'll be happy about it (after all, that happens to me all the time). On my next trip to the Arctic, if I happen to get frozen in a block of ice I'll sure feel good when I pull the trigger.
Don't get me wrong, the Glock is an okay pistol but it's nothing out of the ordinary. Glock owners are constantly comparing the Glock to the 1911 in their efforts to show its superiority. This is simply because the 1911 is still the pistol to beat after nearly a century. If the Glock is still around in fifty years then I'll be impressed. As for here and now, I'm not.
"Sixty perecent of all LE agencies carry the Glock." That has nothing to due with it being the best. We carry it for one simple reason "low bid".
"Glocks shoot every time." If you think that's true then you haven't shot one enough. I recently spent several days on the range with several *hundred* Glocks that wouldn't work right.
Of course we can all rest easy in knowing that if we ever choose to throw our bavarian squirt pistol from a helicopter it will still work (if we could find it). I guess if I ever drop it and run over it when pulling out of the driveway I'll be happy about it (after all, that happens to me all the time). On my next trip to the Arctic, if I happen to get frozen in a block of ice I'll sure feel good when I pull the trigger.
Don't get me wrong, the Glock is an okay pistol but it's nothing out of the ordinary. Glock owners are constantly comparing the Glock to the 1911 in their efforts to show its superiority. This is simply because the 1911 is still the pistol to beat after nearly a century. If the Glock is still around in fifty years then I'll be impressed. As for here and now, I'm not.
224, several hundred? Several HUNDRED????
OK... What were the problems? You must have a list.
Anybody wants to know what is so special about a Glock, read this thread again and then ask what OTHER gun has as many qualities as the Glock all in one package deal???
Simply put, the Glock is the BEST combat pistol EVER made to date. Also, NO other pistol has ever been put through the crap that the Glock has (including negative "opinions") and has STILL came out with 60% of the LEO market and is rising.
Sure, of course the Glock is not perfect, but so what? What IS perfect in this world???
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Reality ALWAYS takes precedence.
OK... What were the problems? You must have a list.
Anybody wants to know what is so special about a Glock, read this thread again and then ask what OTHER gun has as many qualities as the Glock all in one package deal???
Simply put, the Glock is the BEST combat pistol EVER made to date. Also, NO other pistol has ever been put through the crap that the Glock has (including negative "opinions") and has STILL came out with 60% of the LEO market and is rising.
Sure, of course the Glock is not perfect, but so what? What IS perfect in this world???
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Reality ALWAYS takes precedence.
Yes Tazz several HUNDRED.
I work for a large State Police agency that transitioned to the Glock 21 about a year and a half ago. We had quite a few initial problems that we attributed to shooter error. However, after nearly a year of continued problems the fault was found to be in the magazines.
The problems came from various sources. The first, and most major was that the magazine follower was of defective design. When the rounds fed through the mag the front of the follower would drag against the metal sleeve inside the mag body, thereby causing a failure to feed.
The second problem is with the magazine spring. the mag spring is supposed to have 11 coils. Some of ours only had eight or nine. Many of the ones with 11 coils had jammed due to the springs backing up onto themselves. Apparently Glock had had two different subcontractors making springs for them. One good, one bargain basement. unfortunately we got the later.
These details have come straight from Glock inc. When the problem was finally narrowed down to the mag my agency contacted Glock and informed them. What was the response? "Yes we know". Our reply, "you mean that you knowingly sent us a defective product?" Glock, "uh, yeah". Supposedly Glock is sending us new mags of a different design. They still haven't arrived. That boat from europe must be pretty slow.
This whole incident is indicative of Glocks overly aggresive sales policy. Glocks intent is to get as much product on the market as soon as possible regardless of the outcome. In the mean time we have several HUNDRED Troopers in the field who are carrying sidearms that they can't depend on. Have no fear though, I'll asssure them that they're carrying the absolute best gun on the planet. I'm sure they'll feel better.
I sure miss my Sig.
I work for a large State Police agency that transitioned to the Glock 21 about a year and a half ago. We had quite a few initial problems that we attributed to shooter error. However, after nearly a year of continued problems the fault was found to be in the magazines.
The problems came from various sources. The first, and most major was that the magazine follower was of defective design. When the rounds fed through the mag the front of the follower would drag against the metal sleeve inside the mag body, thereby causing a failure to feed.
The second problem is with the magazine spring. the mag spring is supposed to have 11 coils. Some of ours only had eight or nine. Many of the ones with 11 coils had jammed due to the springs backing up onto themselves. Apparently Glock had had two different subcontractors making springs for them. One good, one bargain basement. unfortunately we got the later.
These details have come straight from Glock inc. When the problem was finally narrowed down to the mag my agency contacted Glock and informed them. What was the response? "Yes we know". Our reply, "you mean that you knowingly sent us a defective product?" Glock, "uh, yeah". Supposedly Glock is sending us new mags of a different design. They still haven't arrived. That boat from europe must be pretty slow.
This whole incident is indicative of Glocks overly aggresive sales policy. Glocks intent is to get as much product on the market as soon as possible regardless of the outcome. In the mean time we have several HUNDRED Troopers in the field who are carrying sidearms that they can't depend on. Have no fear though, I'll asssure them that they're carrying the absolute best gun on the planet. I'm sure they'll feel better.
I sure miss my Sig.
parabellum
New member
Whenever I hear people say what terrible pistols Glocks are they usually mean they don't like them, especially when they resort to obvious hyperbole. Several hundred?! Gee!!
Tazz10mm,
60% of LE agencies have Glocks because they are cheaper and easy to use. It is not because they are some kind of supergun. If Sig, S&W or Beretta started giving the kind of bids to agencies that Glock does you would see a change in the most used weapon.
I am not saying Glocks are bad guns I own some and like them. What I am saying it does not mean that much that 60% of LE agencies issue them.
60% of LE agencies have Glocks because they are cheaper and easy to use. It is not because they are some kind of supergun. If Sig, S&W or Beretta started giving the kind of bids to agencies that Glock does you would see a change in the most used weapon.
I am not saying Glocks are bad guns I own some and like them. What I am saying it does not mean that much that 60% of LE agencies issue them.
I have to agree with Mrat and Brasso. Like it or not, LE and military contracts do go with the lowest bidder. Not exactly the best way to go about picking equipment but that's the way it is.
Ergonomics to me is the one main reason I don't own a Glock. I also know of a few people who've had them KB on them with both handloaded and factory ammo; one still carries a Glock the others won't touch them. Again, there isn't too much special about them except maybe fad. Sure they hold a few more bullets, but I don't judge guns on how many bullets they hold.
You can subject a lot of other guns to similar tests and they can take it. HK extensively tested their USP. A lot of other guns like SIG, Beretta won't go off when dropped and can fire after being dropped; it won't break like glass. Other guns are just as reliable as a Glock.
You can also drive a truck over other guns without them breaking so that's no big deal, etc. Some of these test things remind me of the Cold Steel knife ads; a gun/knife is supposedly no good unless the company openly tells others that they are bad because they don't have videos of the tests.
Other guns can be field stripped quickly, and I can totally disassemble a SIG, even with all of it's parts, in about a minute. Again, not trying to rip on the Glock, just to point out that it's not the BEST pistol in the world. The BEST pistol in the world is the one you have when you need it and you shoot the best with. If it happens to be a Glock, so be it. If it's something else, that's fine, too.
Ergonomics to me is the one main reason I don't own a Glock. I also know of a few people who've had them KB on them with both handloaded and factory ammo; one still carries a Glock the others won't touch them. Again, there isn't too much special about them except maybe fad. Sure they hold a few more bullets, but I don't judge guns on how many bullets they hold.
You can subject a lot of other guns to similar tests and they can take it. HK extensively tested their USP. A lot of other guns like SIG, Beretta won't go off when dropped and can fire after being dropped; it won't break like glass. Other guns are just as reliable as a Glock.
You can also drive a truck over other guns without them breaking so that's no big deal, etc. Some of these test things remind me of the Cold Steel knife ads; a gun/knife is supposedly no good unless the company openly tells others that they are bad because they don't have videos of the tests.
Other guns can be field stripped quickly, and I can totally disassemble a SIG, even with all of it's parts, in about a minute. Again, not trying to rip on the Glock, just to point out that it's not the BEST pistol in the world. The BEST pistol in the world is the one you have when you need it and you shoot the best with. If it happens to be a Glock, so be it. If it's something else, that's fine, too.
LOWEST BID. BULL CRAP,Seems to me that the last time I checked the Ruger P95 and P97 would go for about 250.00 a piece if they were bought in lots of 2 or 300. Maybe even cheaper. Some peoples favorite pass time is cutting down Glocks. GET RID OF THAT NICKLE PLATED SISSY PISTOL AND GET YOUR SELF A GLOCK. Tommy Lee Jones.
Parabellum,
The one really convenient thing about the internet is that any chicken s!*t can call someone a liar without fear of any consequences.
I've never said that the Glock itself is a piece of junk. However, I do take issue with blind fanaticism toward any brand, including Glock. I simply use our experiences to illustrate that the Glock is not the BEST of anything, nor is it a perfect pistol.
If you choose not to believe my "hyperbole" that's your business. I would suggest that you and any other blind Glock fanatic contact Kansas Highway Patrol headquarters in Topeka Kansas if you would like to verify my "hyperbole".
Patrick Kelly
State Trooper
Kansas Highway Patrol
Gee !
The one really convenient thing about the internet is that any chicken s!*t can call someone a liar without fear of any consequences.
I've never said that the Glock itself is a piece of junk. However, I do take issue with blind fanaticism toward any brand, including Glock. I simply use our experiences to illustrate that the Glock is not the BEST of anything, nor is it a perfect pistol.
If you choose not to believe my "hyperbole" that's your business. I would suggest that you and any other blind Glock fanatic contact Kansas Highway Patrol headquarters in Topeka Kansas if you would like to verify my "hyperbole".
Patrick Kelly
State Trooper
Kansas Highway Patrol
Gee !
224-
I may have only owned two Glocks, but one was a 21 and I'll back you up. The mags were SH*T. I would get jams with BALL ammo if I loaded them to capacity. I went through 8 pre-ban mags ($$$!) trying to find a mag that would feed 100% with BALL ammo! I hear from my dealer that a State Trooper snapped it up when I traded it in, God help him if he ever needs it.
I'll stick with my Wilson CQB or H&K USP .45 Compact.
I did have a Glock 17 that never jammed, (1240 rnds) but 3-4" groups at 25yd with all the brands of +P 115gr ammo I tried did not impress me much, it's gone too.
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Cry "Havoc!" and let slip the dogs of war.
I may have only owned two Glocks, but one was a 21 and I'll back you up. The mags were SH*T. I would get jams with BALL ammo if I loaded them to capacity. I went through 8 pre-ban mags ($$$!) trying to find a mag that would feed 100% with BALL ammo! I hear from my dealer that a State Trooper snapped it up when I traded it in, God help him if he ever needs it.
I'll stick with my Wilson CQB or H&K USP .45 Compact.
I did have a Glock 17 that never jammed, (1240 rnds) but 3-4" groups at 25yd with all the brands of +P 115gr ammo I tried did not impress me much, it's gone too.
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Cry "Havoc!" and let slip the dogs of war.
parabellum
New member
My, my. Testy, aren't we? Yes, naturally since you're a state trooper(should I salute now?) I should automatically take at face value your outrageous statement About SEVERAL HUNDRED(!) Glocks being problems. You speak for everyone in your organization, I suppose?
Although I carry a Glock, I am most certainly not a "fanatic" for them. Glocks are no more special than the many other quality service pistols I own. You can believe what you choose. Oh, and by the way, I'm entitled to the same, like it or not, sir.
You're correct in that the internet does offer tremendous anonymity. It allows people to claim all sorts of ridiculous things. Of course, not you, sir. ANYONE but you, yes?
I'd be careful about references to chickens**t, sir. You might step in the truckload of it you're spreading.
Although I carry a Glock, I am most certainly not a "fanatic" for them. Glocks are no more special than the many other quality service pistols I own. You can believe what you choose. Oh, and by the way, I'm entitled to the same, like it or not, sir.
You're correct in that the internet does offer tremendous anonymity. It allows people to claim all sorts of ridiculous things. Of course, not you, sir. ANYONE but you, yes?
I'd be careful about references to chickens**t, sir. You might step in the truckload of it you're spreading.
I like my Glocks because they have always worked for me, fit my hands very well, conceal easily, are easy to use and a joy to shoot. I feel that this is all anyone can really ask of a pistol. And amazingly enough there are many that do this. I think that many people glock owners in particular like to think they own the ultimate, best, prettiest, tastiest, biggest baddest pistol ever created by this species called man. But I dont think one exists. If it is invented any time soon maybe I will buy it, until then I will be happy with my 40 cal Glocks.
Well I guess I should also say that I find it hard to believe that a dept. would choose a glock because of price. I deal with the Gov. all the time and they buy what they want. The bid process is not that complicated ,you decide what you want, call the Rep., and have the bid specs. written around that product. If you don,t meet the specs. you are out of luck.
The reason I like Glock is simple out of every other auto I've owned it's the only one that I liked out of the box. I am a 1911 nut but I have to say if I had to pick one auto. It would hands be down a glock. You can shoot a glock at the range and walk away wanting more range time not a trigger job, or some other mod. to improve it 's preformance.
The reason I like Glock is simple out of every other auto I've owned it's the only one that I liked out of the box. I am a 1911 nut but I have to say if I had to pick one auto. It would hands be down a glock. You can shoot a glock at the range and walk away wanting more range time not a trigger job, or some other mod. to improve it 's preformance.
Well, let me say that I have a Glock model 22 that I have fired over 13000 rounds through it and never..EVER had a FTF...I also have a 1911...which is very tempermental...I guess I need to spend another thousand bucks on it...or I could just buy two more Glocks...hmmmmmm 
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A MASTER OF HIS ART REVEALS IT IN EVERYTHING HE DOES
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A MASTER OF HIS ART REVEALS IT IN EVERYTHING HE DOES
115+P,
Try this for a bid process. You're replacing an old piece of equipment with a new design. You draw up your specs on what you think you're people need and submit them. A manufacturer threatens you with legal action because your specs exclude their product. Said manufacturer claims that you knowingly wrote the specs up to exclude them, not because it was what you really needed. The bid process can be complibated at times.
Parabellum,
I didn't identify myself in order to impress anyone (it doesn't impress me). I did so in order to lend credibility to my statement. I also gave you the source that can readily be verified by anyone, including you. I believe in putting up or shutting up. I've done the former, unless you want to verify why don't you do us all a favor and do the latter.
Try this for a bid process. You're replacing an old piece of equipment with a new design. You draw up your specs on what you think you're people need and submit them. A manufacturer threatens you with legal action because your specs exclude their product. Said manufacturer claims that you knowingly wrote the specs up to exclude them, not because it was what you really needed. The bid process can be complibated at times.
Parabellum,
I didn't identify myself in order to impress anyone (it doesn't impress me). I did so in order to lend credibility to my statement. I also gave you the source that can readily be verified by anyone, including you. I believe in putting up or shutting up. I've done the former, unless you want to verify why don't you do us all a favor and do the latter.
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