What would you have done?

[bamaranger]

LEO's and guns

I've stopped a LOT of cars, and contacted a lot of folks in "service" type contacts as well. I'd much rather be notified, than pick up on it myself. Note that an observant officer may not see your firearm, but other items that may heighten their suspicion, such as ammo, holsters, gun cases, spent cases, decals, etc.

Like it or not, no one is assumed to be a complete non-threat upon initial contact. Mom, kids and the van do not on the surface indicate a completely safe circumstance initially. The van could be stolen, youngsters kidnapped, the adults a warrant, its the world LEO's operate in. Why add an undeclared firearm to the mix?

 

[Aguila Blanca]

... its the world LEO's operate in. Why add an undeclared firearm to the mix?

Because some LEOs are jackbooted thugs and would insist on disarming you and maybe fiddling around with your gun (which they may not even know how to operate) all in the holy name of "officer safety." If I'm stopped for a purported traffic violation and I'm going to have to be reaching into various pockets for a driver's license and a carry permit, and the glove box for my registration and proof of insurance, then I'll tell the officer if I'm carrying. If he happens along while I'm dealing with something on the side of the road (whether it's a flat tire or a puking kid), I'm not going to say anything unless he asks, or if I'm in a state that requires notification. (My home state does not.)

 

[Wag]

When an officer pulls a motorist over, he's putting himself in a hugely dangerous position, even aside from traffic flying by which he can't watch while interacting with the occupants of the vehicle.

As a result, I want that officer to feel as safe as possible with me. I get my paperwork out while he's approaching the vehicle, roll down all four windows, turn the car off and keep my hands on the steering wheel from that point forward. In our neck of the woods, it's better to stay in the vehicle but in some jurisdictions, they prefer you get out.

When the officer gets up to my window I hand him my documents, including my carry permit and I inform him that I'm carrying. In this area, cops are pretty used to the idea of people carrying so they don't get too worked up about it. But the last thing I want is to make him the least bit uncomfortable.

I don't get pulled over much, but the last two times I did, the officer epxressed his appreciation by NOT citing me.

Again, the bottom line is, I want the cop to feel as safe as possible and I'll do everything in my power to make that happen, regardless of the requirements of the law.

--Wag--

 

[zukiphile]

And it's not limited to police officers, it also applies to the trucker patrols (Department of Transportation?).

We have cars that weigh trucks and check logs along the side of the road. They look like State Patrol from far away, but are marked differently so one can resume speed once identified.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

As a result, I want that officer to feel as safe as possible with me. I get my paperwork out while he's approaching the vehicle, roll down all four windows, turn the car off and keep my hands on the steering wheel from that point forward. In our neck of the woods, it's better to stay in the vehicle but in some jurisdictions, they prefer you get out.

I have never heard of a jurisdiction that prefers drivers to get out of the car but, that aside ...

Whether or not I'm carrying that day, my driver's license is in a wallet in my left back pocket, my carry permits (I currently have six) are in a separate card wallet in my left front pocket, and my registration and insurance card are in the glovebox of the vehicle. There's no way I can get all that out and squared away while an officer is approaching, and while I'm squirming around to get all that my hands will be out of sight -- and while I lean across to the glove box I will be mostly out of sight. That's what makes cops uneasy -- they don't know what you're doing with your hands in that period. All I have read and been told by officers I know (I do know a couple of officers socially, and I've done three "citizens' police academy" ride-alongs with local PDs) is that it's better to just sit there with the driver's window down, your hands on the wheel, turn on the dome light if it's at night, and wait for the officer to tell you what he wants. That's when you tell him you have a permit and you're carrying, your driver's license is ___, your permit is ___, your registration is ___ and the gun is ___. "How would you like to proceed?"

That's for a stop. The situation under discussion in this thread was not a traffic stop. Notification was not required.

 

[Pahoo]

I always stay in the car; Life lesson !!!!

I have never heard of a jurisdiction that prefers drivers to get out of the car but, that aside ...

It might be and that is a good point. As for me, a number of years back, I did "start" to get out of the car and the LEO told me to stay in the car.
Well it was more like he yelled at me. Since then, I stay put. ……


Be Safe !!!!

 

[44 AMP]

I have never heard of a jurisdiction that prefers drivers to get out of the car but, that aside ...

The one I grew up in did. Probably doesn't NOW, but it was part of driver training back then. We were TAUGHT you pulled over, exited the vehicle, and waited for the officer at the rear corner of the vehicle, furthest from traffic.

I still do that, unless the officer tells me to get back in the car, in which case, I comply. I've only been pulled over a couple times in the past decade or so (and both were warnings, light out, etc) so its not a big concern for me. Don't remember the time before, but do remember the last time, officer told me to get back in the car, so, I did. Not an issue for me.

I haven't been asked, but if I am ever asked why I exited (or more likely, attempted to exit ) the vehicle, my answer will be "because that's what I was taught to do when I learned how to drive". Which was probably about the same time the officers father learned to drive...but I'll try to keep that part to myself,

 

[DaleA]

We were TAUGHT you pulled over, exited the vehicle, and waited for the officer at the rear corner of the vehicle, furthest from traffic.

Hmmm....they might have had the same text book in my state. When I was young we were taught this too but a subtle point that was sometimes missed in my neck of the woods was that when you exit the car and go to the back of the vehicle do NOT bring your beer can with you.

 

[rpseraph]

We were TAUGHT you pulled over, exited the vehicle, and waited for the officer at the rear corner of the vehicle, furthest from traffic.

Hmmm....they might have had the same text book in my state. When I was young we were taught this too but a subtle point that was sometimes missed in my neck of the woods was that when you exit the car and go to the back of the vehicle do NOT bring your beer can with you.

Wouldn't cause the officer a lot of stress? To have someone get out and walk toward them? This definitely wasn't in MY driver's ed That said, it was a while ago, so maybe I forgot (like everyone else)

 

[Mike38]

Depends on state laws. Here in Illinois you are not required to disclose carry, unless asked. It's made very clear, that if asked, you best be admitting it.

 

[M88]

Here in PA I'm pretty sure you do NOT have to inform the officer if pulled over and asked for license/ reg/ insurance. Because PA is surrounded by NY, NJ and MD, states that don't recognize PA CC permit (or any other states permit I believe), and I often have to cross into those states, I don't carry all the time, only when I know I'll never leave PA. I'd be an instant felon as soon as I crossed the state lines. The two times I've been pulled over (here in PA) in the last few years, I was not carrying. But since the officer knows I have a permit as soon as he/she runs my plate, both times I started the the convo as they got to my door with "...officer I want to inform you that I have a CC permit but I have no weapon on me or in my car today." Obviously if I WAS carrying, I'd report that I was. Both times the officer thanked me for letting him know. Both times btw, just a warning, no ticket.

 

[Pathfinder45]

The CCW class that I took here in Oregon was taught by a retired Captain of the Clackamas County Sheriff. In talking about what to do in a traffic stop, he said the best thing to do would be to simply hand your license together with your carry permit at the same time, along with registration and proof of insurance and make no mention about guns. In fact he said that you should never say the word, "gun", to the officer, because if you do, you will immediately be made aware that he also has a gun. If the officer even asks whether you have a gun, simply say yes or no. Don't ask if he wants to see it; if he wants to know where it is, he will ask. Just follow their lead.
There was a lot more discussed, but that could drift off topic. It was a really good class with a great teacher. But this is Oregon and even here in the liberal Willamette valley, the gun culture is ubiquitous

 

[Aguila Blanca]

The CCW class that I took here in Oregon was taught by a retired Captain of the Clackamas County Sheriff. In talking about what to do in a traffic stop, he said the best thing to do would be to simply hand your license together with your carry permit at the same time, along with registration and proof of insurance and make no mention about guns.

And a previous comment, from a different jurisdiction, has already noted a court case in which it was ruled that simply handing over the carry permit with the driver's license did NOT satisfy that jurisdiction's interpretation of "immediate notification."

THERE IS NO ONE-SIZE FITS ALL ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION.

 

[Rob228]

I have and I haven't, it all depends on initial rapport with the LEO and laws of the state.

 

[davidsog]

it's better to just sit there with the driver's window down, your hands on the wheel, turn on the dome light if it's at night, and wait for the officer to tell you what he wants.

That is pretty much spot on. Digging in the car as they approach tends to make them nervous as they have no idea what you are digging for in the first place.

That's for a stop. The situation under discussion in this thread was not a traffic stop. Notification was not required.

It was LEO contact and whether required or not, it is prudent to let them know at first contact.

 

[davidsog]

It might be and that is a good point. As for me, a number of years back, I did "start" to get out of the car and the LEO told me to stay in the car.
Well it was more like he yelled at me. Since then, I stay put. ……

Which is what most departments teach and the typical reaction if you get out. Getting out of the car makes the stop more dangerous for the Police Officer.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

It was LEO contact and whether required or not, it is prudent to let them know at first contact.

Regardless of the fact it was a "contact," it was not a "stop," and the law in the state doesn't require notification even when "contacted."

As to "prudent," that's a judgment call, and my opinion differs from yours. I think it was prudent not to mention a "GUN!" when there was no need or reason to do so.

 

[zukiphile]

As to "prudent," that's a judgment call...

Indeed. If I were to tell every PO who spoke to me that I had a firearm on me, I'd be locked up not in a jail, but a psychiatric ward.

I've been stopped by some very courteous highway patrol officers, and some city police who I'd say were friendly and helpful. I'd have no problem telling any of them "In my concealed carry class they said I should notify you, so I am..."

On the other hand, I've been stopped by POs who were enraged, belligerent and in one instance clearly drunk. I'd have reservations about prolonging any of those conversations. Complying with a notification requirement isn't worth being shot over.

 

[davidsog]

I think it was prudent not to mention a "GUN!" when there was no need or reason to do so.

Of course it is your opinion and you are entitled to it.

I completely agree going "GUN!" would be rather stupid assuming you meant to yell with the all caps.

But that is nothing like what I said.

I always keep my hands in plain view and inform the officer I am a licensed and carrying.

Understanding how Officers are trained is key to a good outcome. Hands Kill. They are trained to watch your hands.

Simply keep them in sight and do not move them unless the officer tells you. It is that simple.

You digging in the back of your Van, pants, or glove compartment and mentioning GUN is a very different threat level to any LEO from you holding your empty hands in plain sight for him to view.

Try it and see what happens, LOL.

 

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

I've had a CCW Permit continuously since 1981. Upon entering my vehicle windows up & doors locked I slip my sidearm into the glove box before driving.
I'm not paranoid about my safety when in my vehicle/s or in my home ._ {I only have a slight need for a sidearm when I'm out & about in public.} Thru the years I've been pulled over for minor traffic infractions like many other citizens.
Never had a problem telling the traffic officer/s at first glimpse with both my hands at 12-oclock on the steering wheel ("for you're information officer there is a loaded pistol in the glove box and I do have a valid CCW Permit w/me.")
Works for me. _You others? ~~ May want to consider other options.