I always differentiate between company rules and the real law. If I personally was driving the car I would keep my gun on me and leave it in a car safe when going into the buildings to drop of the supplies. In your own car nobody will know, even if you get pulled over you are fine as long as CCW's are legal in the state you are driving in.
What would you do?
- Thread starter yakfish
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Rich Miranda
New member
Lots of thugs and miscreants could use this sage advice.
As for keeping a gun, I would follow the rules or get a new job. It's a tough choice given that it pays well, but it's the current dilemma.
Thats doesnt make sense. Noone is going to try to rob you while you are in a locked car, and if they do they will have to have a gun, and it will be on you first. So just having a gun in the glove compartment is pretty much useless. The most dangerous situation your gonna get yourself into is out of your car moving the drugs into the home. If it were me I would just get my CCW and break the rules. Id rather be fired than dead, because there are a ton of people out there who would kill over 1000 dollars
I know this is against the grain but to be honest with you I would carry and keep it low key. If it's in a good ccw holster no one would know anyway.
In college I worked for a major convenience store chain that was very clear that you could not be armed while working. I ccw'd every single night that I worked for about 8 months. I almost always had someone there working with me and when I graduated and was quitting to move out of that town I asked the two people I regularly worked with if they had ever noticed. They both said no but they were glad I had been. I was glad too!
In college I worked for a major convenience store chain that was very clear that you could not be armed while working. I ccw'd every single night that I worked for about 8 months. I almost always had someone there working with me and when I graduated and was quitting to move out of that town I asked the two people I regularly worked with if they had ever noticed. They both said no but they were glad I had been. I was glad too!
Rich Miranda
New member
SW, I was about to suggest that but it is illegal to carry a gun into certain medical facilities in certain states. In performing his duties he almost certainly enters these facilities.
Breaking an employer's rule is one thing, but violating the law is another. I'm willing to risk the first, not the second.
Hellbilly5000
New member
Follow the rules and regulations set forth by the company you work for. If you have issues with them then lobby to have them changed or bust your butt so your in charge and can change the rules. Until then there are other avenues for protecting yourself carry a knife and asp or even a taser if they allow tasers.
40s-and-wfan
New member
Personally, I like the idea of having something to protect myself. I figure it's better to be jobless and alive than just plain dead! I'm not a fan of companies that set forth this kind of ruling and while it may be against policy to carry while you're working for them I would figure my life is worth more than the job is.
I've worked the convenience store scene where I was told I couldn't carry concealed while there and I've worked the same scene where they had no rules prohibiting such. I value my life. That being said, I will do whatever it takes to protect it.
My ultimate question is this: When you first signed on with the company did they make you sign anything stating you would not bring a firearm with you in your vehicle? I just don't understand how they can completely and totally control what you do in your own vehicle.
I understand this may be a minute detail but in my opinion it does contain some validity. I would think the company would be more worried about their valuable merchandise disappearing than they would about something like this.
Just my opinion, for what it's worth!
I've worked the convenience store scene where I was told I couldn't carry concealed while there and I've worked the same scene where they had no rules prohibiting such. I value my life. That being said, I will do whatever it takes to protect it.
My ultimate question is this: When you first signed on with the company did they make you sign anything stating you would not bring a firearm with you in your vehicle? I just don't understand how they can completely and totally control what you do in your own vehicle.
I understand this may be a minute detail but in my opinion it does contain some validity. I would think the company would be more worried about their valuable merchandise disappearing than they would about something like this. Just my opinion, for what it's worth!
How do you know what he agreed to? I worked for a company for 34 yrs. I never agreed to anything concerning firearms. The company had rules and I followed them until they forbade firearms on company property. Since I had no where else to park, I violated that rule every day for 10 yrs., with utter contempt in my heart and a smile on my face, so I could arm myself to and, especially, after, work so I wouldn't be unarmed on my personal time.
For someone who works for a company that cares more about their own liability than an employee who has a regular routine delivering drugs that people kill for, then I'd strongly recommend he carry a weapon.
Yes, he'll be fired if he should have to defend himself, just like the pizza delivery guy who has the common, basic sense to carry a gun. Both have a better chance of being alive to find a better job.
This isn't just a matter of being armed on company property or on company time. This is a matter of a company sending an employee into harms way unarmed because their lawyers told them that it's easier to settle with his family after his death than fight Bubba's piece of crap realatives in court.
For those who have a lot of time and retirement benefits at stake, they'd have a decision to make. If nobody is going to know you're armed until you've saved your own life, then that should make the decision a little easier.
Yes, I do feel better now, thanks for asking.
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Hellbilly5000
New member
yakfish a couple of questions
1) do they provide a vehicle or do you use your own?
2) is it in writing that you can not carry a weapon (its hard to enforce whats not written down)
3) if it is written down does it say weapons or firearms guns ect.
4) if it specifically states no firearms can you carry non lethal protection like a taser or oc spray?
1) do they provide a vehicle or do you use your own?
2) is it in writing that you can not carry a weapon (its hard to enforce whats not written down)
3) if it is written down does it say weapons or firearms guns ect.
4) if it specifically states no firearms can you carry non lethal protection like a taser or oc spray?
One more thing:
Yakfish, the stuff you carry is worth as much to some as the bags full of money carried in an armoured car by two armed guards--- which haven't proven all that effective against criminals with a little sophistication and planning.
I hope you aren't so predictable in your route that you'd be easy to ambush. If you were, do you think your liability conscious employer, who disarms you in your own car, would be worried more about your life or their drugs?
Yakfish, the stuff you carry is worth as much to some as the bags full of money carried in an armoured car by two armed guards--- which haven't proven all that effective against criminals with a little sophistication and planning.
I hope you aren't so predictable in your route that you'd be easy to ambush. If you were, do you think your liability conscious employer, who disarms you in your own car, would be worried more about your life or their drugs?
cerberus65
New member
This is a difficult situation. We owe obedience to God. We have a responsibility to our family. We owe allegiance to our country (including obeying its laws). Our employers have some legitimate demands upon us as well. It would be nice if there was never a conflict between those various obligations.
Does the company have policies and training for what to do in a situation where someone robs you?
I would also check your state statutes to see what legal weight the nursing home no-gun signs might or might not have.
Is the great pay a recognition of the fact that you're doing a risky job? Or simply because it's during the night?
After having the answers to those questions I would try to balance the competing demands and make a decision on what to do.
Does the company have policies and training for what to do in a situation where someone robs you?
I would also check your state statutes to see what legal weight the nursing home no-gun signs might or might not have.
Is the great pay a recognition of the fact that you're doing a risky job? Or simply because it's during the night?
After having the answers to those questions I would try to balance the competing demands and make a decision on what to do.
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
It's very simple.
If I say to you "A condition of employment is that you do not carry a firearm while you are on company time." and you continue to work then you have implicitly agreed to the condition. If you have not openly stated that you will not follow the policy then you have implied that you will, just like every other policy in the companies manual. The manual might say "business attire required" and you don't have to go to the boss and say "Boss, I agree that I will wear business attire.", you just do. Just because they cannot SEE whether or not you are complying doesn't change the fact that you have implicitly agreed to comply.
We can argue all day long about whether or not the rule itself is "moral". The fact is, it really doesn't matter. You have a choice, go work somewhere else. If you choose NOT to go somewhere else then you are putting money above integrity. It's completely different than the government trying to disarm you. The government leaves you no choice, they are all-inclusive, if the rule is sufficiently immoral then integrity requires that the rule be disobeyed. Employer rules are NOT impositions on your rights because you have a CHOICE.
Simply put, whether or not it is morally justifiable to disobey a rule very often depends on whether or not you are left with any other options. In this case you are, get another job.
Tennessee Gentleman
New member
peetzakilla said:
Peetza, what would you tell the lady who is being stalked by the violent ex? Does she have a choice (other than becoming a LEO)?
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
I'd tell her she should have a job were she can defend herself.
I'm not denying the right to defend yourself.
The whole question has nothing to do with the gun, really.
Remember my previous example? What if you were hired for a job and the guy said he'd pay you $25/hour but 2 weeks later he said, "You know, legally I've only got to pay you $7.50, so that's all I'm going to do." How would you feel? He could say "Well, it's my right to only pay you $7.50, you can't take away my right." I'll bet you that your response would be something like "Damn straight I can, I'll go work for someone else."
I'm not saying that the employer SHOULD disallow CCW while on the job. In fact, I say that he most certainly should NOT disallow carry but I'm saying he CAN and, if he does, you are sacrificing your integrity for money if you choose to carry anyway, and lie about it.
Tennessee Gentleman
New member
peetzakilla said:
While that is easy to say in this discussion that may be in fact a problem to do. Might be impossible. Sort of sounds like "let 'em eat cake" there might not be any cake to eat. Your option may not be present.
peetzakilla said:
But the employer can with no responsibility or liability to the employee. Hardly seems fair or moral.
peetzakilla said:
And I say if an employer denies you the right to protect yourself then he must assume that responsibility and if he does not then it is immoral and he is sacrificing his/her integrity for his own bottom line (read money). Honesty works both ways so the employer is wrong from the outset and I have no obligation to follow an unjust rule.
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
You do have an "obligation" to inform the employer that you will not follow that rule. That's the gist of my argument. Follow it or don't, that's not the point. LYING about it is the point.
Where do we draw the line on following "unjust rules"? I think it's unjust that my tax money funds abortions. Should I not pay taxes? I think building permits violate my rights. Should I build without one? I think sales tax is unjust double taxation. Should I not pay it?
Secondarily, if "my option" is not present then it would be pretty silly to risk your irreplaceable job so that you can carry. If you live in a place that is honest to God so dangerous that you consider yourself to be in that much trouble unarmed, you really ought to move.... but then, we've had that thread so I know how people feel about that idea.
Edit: I'm also not trying to change your mind, or anyone else's. Like you said before "We'll disagree." Every persons integrity and decisions are between them and God. The above opinions are what I believe to be true. Many good people have solid, well thought-out, honest opinions that are in complete disagreement with other good people.
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skydiver3346
New member
This discussion could go on forever: Bottom line is....
Your first responsibility is to protect your life and go home everynight to your family, PERIOD......
Because some guy at the home office tells you NOT to carry a gun in your car (delivering drugs late at night) then something is very wrong with this scenario. Yes, you still probably need to find other employment if this keeps presenting a concern for you.
However; regarding the company: At the very worst, you lose your job if you have to defend your life some night.
Regarding you: If you follow their requirements, at the very worst you could lose your life!
That is a pretty simple decision to me......
Your first responsibility is to protect your life and go home everynight to your family, PERIOD......
Because some guy at the home office tells you NOT to carry a gun in your car (delivering drugs late at night) then something is very wrong with this scenario. Yes, you still probably need to find other employment if this keeps presenting a concern for you.
However; regarding the company: At the very worst, you lose your job if you have to defend your life some night.
Regarding you: If you follow their requirements, at the very worst you could lose your life!
That is a pretty simple decision to me......
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