I'm an independent contractor and I deliver drugs to nursing homes 6 nights a week. My route is about 320 miles long and it takes all night. the company that I'm contracted with says, " no firearms are aloud to be with me in the car while I'm driving an my route." on an average night I am carrying serveral thousand dollars worth of medication and I would feel better if a was able to carry consealed for SD. Now all of the homes have signs sayiing no firearms aloud inside so should I have something with me in the car or should I just abide by the company "rules"? as an idependant contractor I feel like I should be aloud to have whatever I want in MY OWN CAR but if I am found to be carrying I could loose my job. But the chances of someone looking in my car are slim to none. So what would you do?
What would you do?
- Thread starter yakfish
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Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
You agreed to follow company rules when you took the job. It is essentially this:
Them: "Hey, I'll give you $X if you do this list of things"
You: "Ok. I'll do that"
You (later on)"Well, I don't like this rule so I'm not going to follow it."
Follow the rules. If you don't like the rules then get a new job.
What if they decided that they weren't going to abide by the mutual employment agreement? Like they suddenly decide to pay you half of what they originally said? You'd be pretty mad. You expect them to hold their side of the agreement, you should hold up your end.
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I live by the creed... "I was lookin' for a job when I found this one"...
That said I would carry in my ride but would really feel safer if armed 'tween the car and the door to the building... But arrest is imminent in many areas for violating the rules posted on the signage.
Brent
That said I would carry in my ride but would really feel safer if armed 'tween the car and the door to the building... But arrest is imminent in many areas for violating the rules posted on the signage.
Brent
, he plainly stated "Nursing Home" not individual residence...Tennessee Gentleman
New member
I would get a new job.
I was not informed about the rule until a couple moths ago when one of the other drivers mentioned he was carring a weapon on his run and was shortly after let go.
and no I don't deliver to private residences, they are nursing homes.
I can't get another job. This one pays too well!!
and no I don't deliver to private residences, they are nursing homes.
I can't get another job. This one pays too well!!
Tennessee Gentleman
New member
Need to choose between lifestyle and life.
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
Then your choice is between money and integrity. If you continue to drive, knowing the rules, and carry anyway then you are a dishonest person. If your reason is money then you're trading your integrity for cash.
skydiver3346
New member
No gun in your car or on your person?
Hmmmm, lets see now. You are probably delivering class II and III narcotics and other potentially "desirable drugs" that the bad guys would like to have. You are doing this all night long? Your company says no firearms in you car or on your person? NOT GOOD...(for you that is). I realize that you must have a job and we all need the money to live,(but that to me, is a recipie for disaster for you someday). I recently retired from the medical sales industry myself (after 30 years) and worked in most all the skilled nursing homes in north Florida area. There are some bad things going on and around in these nursing homes that I became aware of. I DID carry a Glock 19 in my glove compartment of my vehicle (just in case). When coming out of some of these nursing homes, I personally have had strangers come up to me and ask me what I was carrying in my briefcase..... I looked them straght in the face and said loudly, "NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS"... It took them back a bit but I didn't care as they were the ones that started this. Later on, I felt it was safer to carry (at least in my car), especially at dark. My company has never personally told me not to carry or keep in my car (although it is a pretty well known fact that they don't want you to). Better safe than sorry I say, but to each his own. I guess the bottom line is you will have to endure this "situation" until either you find another job (or God forbid, you have a run in with some bad guys one night and the decision will be made for you). I sure hope not and best of luck to you whatever you decide.
Hmmmm, lets see now. You are probably delivering class II and III narcotics and other potentially "desirable drugs" that the bad guys would like to have. You are doing this all night long? Your company says no firearms in you car or on your person? NOT GOOD...(for you that is). I realize that you must have a job and we all need the money to live,(but that to me, is a recipie for disaster for you someday). I recently retired from the medical sales industry myself (after 30 years) and worked in most all the skilled nursing homes in north Florida area. There are some bad things going on and around in these nursing homes that I became aware of. I DID carry a Glock 19 in my glove compartment of my vehicle (just in case). When coming out of some of these nursing homes, I personally have had strangers come up to me and ask me what I was carrying in my briefcase..... I looked them straght in the face and said loudly, "NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS"... It took them back a bit but I didn't care as they were the ones that started this. Later on, I felt it was safer to carry (at least in my car), especially at dark. My company has never personally told me not to carry or keep in my car (although it is a pretty well known fact that they don't want you to). Better safe than sorry I say, but to each his own. I guess the bottom line is you will have to endure this "situation" until either you find another job (or God forbid, you have a run in with some bad guys one night and the decision will be made for you). I sure hope not and best of luck to you whatever you decide.
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
Good man.
You should most certainly be allowed to carry but your integrity is who you are. Try to get the rule changed, if there is no hope then try really hard to find another job. Be the best employee you can, so it hurts them when you leave, and make sure they know WHY you are leaving. Maybe they'll reconsider.
Tennessee Gentleman
New member
peetzakilla said:
Peetza, For the record and I have debated this before with many others, I feel that a company that creates such a rule and removes your right to protect yourself and makes no effort to then provide you reasonable protection are themselves immoral.
A lot of companies do this to CYA at the expense of the employee and it is wrong. Just as wrong IMO as someone breaking their work rules.
In this case, I think the poster can work elsewhere, but as I have pointed out before, if this were a battered female who had a stalking ex after her I might think otherwise.
BTW I think Pizza Hut was immoral when they fired that guy who used his firearm in self defense and I won't buy their pizza's anymore since they forced the guy to go into bad neighborhoods without protection and knew of the risks he faced.
Again, when left with no option as the battered woman example then the rule would be immoral and disobeying it might get you fired but would not necessarily make you dishonest IMO.
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Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
Disobeying it may not be immoral but disobeying it while saying that you obey it is lying. If management is informed that you do not intend to follow the rule and they allow you to keep working then fine. If you are aware of the rule and agree to follow it, either implicitly or explicitly, then you are in the wrong.
Now, the signs on the nursing homes may or may not be different. In some areas those signs carry no legal weight and I'd ignore them. There is no agreement, since you are not employed directly by those homes. If those signs are legally enforceable then you would be breaking the law by entering, another no-no.
Tennessee Gentleman
New member
peetzakilla said:
We disagree. If the rule is immoral then it cannot be dishonest to disobey it. Lots of historical examples of people who lied to authority in order to protect those or themselves from immoral law. That is an individual decision and I do not think it would be necessary to inform the employer. I would probably say nothing. Doesn't mean I can't face punishment, many have before but it doesn't make me dishonest. Everything that is legal is not always moral (see AIG) and sometimes things that are illegal are moral. Up to the individual. But that's just me.
It appears that most everyone is saying that you should not carry. Well I disagree--IF you have a concealed carry permit. The choice is simple for me. Should you choose keeping your job or should you choose to win a deadly force encounter. I would choose to win a deadly force encounter everytime and if I was fired then so be it. At least I would be alive to find another job instead of dead. Good Luck.
Take morality out of it for a minute... would you be able to live with the consequences? Most people don't carry concealed illegally because they couldn't live with the consequences (jail). Your consequence is getting fired... If you can live with the possibility of getting fired, then by all means go for it.
Now take that one step further. Think of the odds of you getting into a deadly force encounter and the resulting consequence (living/dying)... Then think of the odds of you getting caught carrying on the job and the resulting consequence (staying employed/being fired). If, to you, the small chance of dying outweighs the more likely chance of you getting fired, then by all means carry.
Or ideally find a new job, but that is harder done than said...
Now take that one step further. Think of the odds of you getting into a deadly force encounter and the resulting consequence (living/dying)... Then think of the odds of you getting caught carrying on the job and the resulting consequence (staying employed/being fired). If, to you, the small chance of dying outweighs the more likely chance of you getting fired, then by all means carry.
Or ideally find a new job, but that is harder done than said...
onthejon55
Moderator
How often does the company you work for search your vehicle? Do they also search bags you carry with you on your route? If not then i personally would carry and just not mention it to anyone. That's the whole idea behind concealed carry anyway right?
skydiver3346
New member
Tennessee Gentleman said it best:
Ditto what he said when it comes down to it. The only reason these companies won't let you carry a gun on your person or even in your vehicle is to protect their "deep pocket" butts from litigation. Bottom line is, they could care less about your safety over their "Bottom Line".......... Yes, I too believe it is immoral for someone to tell you that you can't defend yourself. Remember this: Among reports from interviews of prision inmates as to what they fear the most, they always admit that it is the "The Armed Citizen" who is willing to protect himself/herself and their property.
Ditto what he said when it comes down to it. The only reason these companies won't let you carry a gun on your person or even in your vehicle is to protect their "deep pocket" butts from litigation. Bottom line is, they could care less about your safety over their "Bottom Line".......... Yes, I too believe it is immoral for someone to tell you that you can't defend yourself. Remember this: Among reports from interviews of prision inmates as to what they fear the most, they always admit that it is the "The Armed Citizen" who is willing to protect himself/herself and their property.
Buddy if you need that gun the last thing in the world you will be thinking of is your job! Carry carry carry! It's your life, keep in mind your car is a 3000lbs bullet, use it to get out of dodge or drive over whatever would be in front of you. Your work will never know you have a gun in your car, nor is it there buisness...
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