What would you do when bail bondsmen break into your home looking for someone who used your address?

[USNRet93]

Haven't read this whole thread carefully but if the home owner opened the door but not the screen door, and the bondsman id'ed themselves wanting to enter and the owner refused and pointed a gun at them...would the bondsmen then start shooting?

But to ME, if I were in that position..handgun at ready and 911 call...they can't legally beat down my door and enter w/o my permission...

 

[zincwarrior]

Haven't read this whole thread carefully but if the home owner opened the door but not the screen door, and the bondsman id'ed themselves wanting to enter and the owner refused and pointed a gun at them...would the bondsmen then start shooting?

But to ME, if I were in that position..handgun at ready and 911 call...they can't legally beat down my door and enter w/o my permission...

That sounds like a very bad idea, tactically and legally.

 

[armoredman]

I like Arizona's take on the whole thing;

13-3885. Arrest of principal by surety; prohibited conduct; violation; classification; definitions

A. For the purpose of surrendering the defendant, a surety on the bail bond of a defendant may arrest the defendant before the forfeiture of the undertaking or, by written authority attached to a certified copy of the undertaking, may empower a bail recovery agent or a bail bond agent as defined in section 20-340 to arrest the defendant.

B. A bail recovery agent or a bail bond agent shall not do any of the following:

1. Enter an occupied residential structure without the consent of the occupants who are present at the time of the entry.

2. Conduct a bail recovery arrest or apprehension without written authorization from a bail bond agent licensed in Arizona.

3. Wear, carry or display any uniform, badge, shield or other insignia or emblem that implies that the bail recovery agent is an employee, officer or agent of this state, a political subdivision of this state or the federal government. A bail recovery agent may display identification that indicates the agent's status as a bail recovery agent only.

That covers everything bandied about in this thread.

 

[USNRet93]

That sounds like a very bad idea, tactically and legally.

So, what do you do? Open your door or let them crow bar it open? If you know it's not LEO?

 

[buck460XVR]

shoot first, ask questions later
my state has both castle doctrine AND stand your ground
NO ONE comes into MY house w/o asking.

Same here.....exception would be LEOs that have identified themselves.

 

[Don Fischer]

Didn't read all the reply's. First off the video does suck, not a clue if they identified themselves in the beginning. Then once the home owner can see them, they are clearly marked. Has to mean something, not sure what. I don't see the need to break in right away, they should have enough people it seem's to cover all exit's. I can't see non public servants being allowed to do that. So they screw it up and the police, city r state doesn't get sued but rather the bail bondsman. seem's tome if a house needs broken into it should be the police that do it, not some bounty hunter.

So what would I do? Well in the service, if someone came into my room and woke me up I was allowed two minutes the beat the crap out of him. In my home, I'd think the same law should apply! I am wondering if they did give the occupant any notice when they got there who they were and what they might be after. Right wrong or indifferent, those bounty hunter's may have invited a gun fight, I wouldn't blame the home owner had they not attempted to settle it peacefully before breaking in! Don't know if they did or didn't, no sound on the video. I don't think the amount of the bond really matter's. We can't say one thing is acceptable in one price range and something else in another. The guy they were after failed to appear, end of discussion! If the bond was one million dollars it wouldn't change the fact that someone failed to appear! I think that something like this should have been handed peacefully as possible and cops should have been there to monitor it. Better yet, those bounty hunter's should be employee's of the state!

What to do, what to do. Just depends on how it started. Surprise me with the deal breaking down the door and I'm shooting. Notify before any attempt to break in and then we have something to talk about. Guy who's family is inside should have every right to protect his family but once he's informed of what's happening, allow them in, what would he have to hide. The guy they are looking for is in there and he could start the fight, then it's on him!

Showing up and breaking in with no notice even when you get there invite's a fight, bounty hunter's then loose!

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Then once the home owner can see them, they are clearly marked. Has to mean something, not sure what.

In a day and age when home invaders sometimes wear actual police uniforms, to me it means they were able to afford to buy tee shirts and patches. Nothing more.

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=bail+enforcement+agent+shirt&ref=nb_sb_noss_1

https://www.nles.com/Patches/

https://www.nles.com/Bail-Enforcement-and-Fugitive-Recovery-Badges/

You don't need any credentials at all to buy these things, just a credit card and a shipping address.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Didn't read all the reply's. First off the video does suck, not a clue if they identified themselves in the beginning. Then once the home owner can see them, they are clearly marked. Has to mean something, not sure what.

So were the "DEA" agents in the vid I posted, only they weren't DEA.

Well in the service, if someone came into my room and woke me up I was allowed two minutes the beat the crap out of him.

Please show me in the UCMJ where that appears.

 

[Glenn E. Meyer]

The 'DEA' agents really did not look real, if you know your stuff. But not opening and calling the cops is a good thing.

 

[Rangerrich99]

You sir have good taste in the Canine species. What better to protect the home than a dog used to hunt lions!

Yeah, he's a great dog, maybe the best dog I've ever had. Though to be honest, when I first looked at him I had no idea what a Rhodesian Ridgeback was; I had to look it up.

Max, from what I've read is pretty typical of the species; very smart, but intensely stubborn, strong protector instinct, not terribly fast, but good stamina and powerful almost beyond belief. Oh, and the size of a small horse, and apparently no pain receptor nerves at all.

 

[zincwarrior]

So, what do you do? Open your door or let them crow bar it open? If you know it's not LEO?

1. Don't open door.
2. Call 911 that youf home is being invaded. Keep line open.
3. Shout that you are armed and in fear of t
Your life And you will defend yourself.

 

[Don Fischer]

Please show me in the UCMJ where that appears.

Love to but that was close to 50 yrs ago. You win by default I guess!

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Well in the service, if someone came into my room and woke me up I was allowed two minutes the beat the crap out of him.

Love to but that was close to 50 yrs ago.

What service were you in? I was in the Army about 50 years ago and I never saw any barracks with "rooms."

 

[USNRet93]

Well in the service, if someone came into my room and woke me up I was allowed two minutes the beat the crap out of him.

HA..in the USN, as a nugget, we were often chosen to wake somebody up in person..kinda like an initiation..early on you learned to stand some distance away and yell at him..don't go touching him..never know what the response might be.

 

[Elkins45]

All this makes me glad my state, Kentucky, is one of a handful that outlaws bail bondsmen. It is a felony for an out-of-state bail bondsman to come into Kentucky and forcefully take someone into custody, regardless of any warrant from another state.

BTW, that 150 year old SCOTUS case, Taylor vs. Taintor, referred to in the news story doesn't say what it is purported to say. The opinion is here: https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme-court/83/366.html. It's from an era when judges and lawyers barely spoke English as we know it today. A Wikipedia article about it is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taylor_v._Taintor.

I'm not 100% sure that's accurate. KRS 440.270 says in part:

(2) No bail bondsman or his agent shall arrest, detain, imprison, or remove from the state any person for having broken the terms of his bail unless a warrant for that person's arrest has been issued as provided for in subsection (1) of this section.

I added an emphasis on the word "unless" in the reg because it makes it seem they can arrest someone IF they have gotten a KY jurisdiction to issue a warrant. Section 1 does, however specify the warrant is for the direction of a "peace officer" so it's a tad muddled to me. Typical of KY regs...

Here's the excerpt from Section (1) of the reg:

the judge shall issue a warrant directed to any peace officer commanding him to apprehend the person named therein, wherever he may be found in this state, and to bring him before the Circuit or District Judge of the county in which he was arrested

 

[Old 454]

If you have a bond with a bondsman and default on it... isnt reasonable that they would at least try during day light hours to at least see who actually is living there ? Especially with information that's 20 yrs old.
There are many means a bailbonds man can do to check for residentcy... go to the city... tax records... utility bills... registered vehicles.
This does not sound like they did there due diligence

I mean 2am on a sound asleep person and your door gets smashed in .
I think that's just asking for things to bad very quickly.

Think about it...your sound asleep.. door is being smashed in..do you have the the wits about you to call police or does self preservation kick in and you grab your gun to defend yourself

 

[TXAZ]

...
Think about it...your sound asleep.. door is being smashed in..do you have the the wits about you to call police or does self preservation kick in and you grab your gun to defend yourself

My guess is it’s dependent upon where you live / expected PD response time, and your cojónes factor.

If typical PD response time was 15-30 minutes as it often is in large cities, I’d expected more would opt for their own counter attack (if not most here would).
If on the other hand PD will be there in 3-5, that answer may change.

But I’m guessing most here are going for the hybrid approach, call the cops and start repelling the invaders.

 

[Glenn E. Meyer]

You can get alarm systems that on one button press, with a control in the bedroom, will call the law that you are under attack and sound a loud siren.

Also, these folks didn't do a surprise breach, so that's not the situation.

 

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Here is a good review of the fake home invasion problem - that issue is brought up in the context of who's at your door:

https://www.activeresponsetraining....rence-between-a-swat-raid-and-a-home-invasion

 

[5whiskey]

^^^That's a pretty good article Glenn.

While it does happen, probably more frequently than people realize, there are usually pretty good indicators (to the trained eye at least) to spot imposter police from real ones. 2 dudes in D.E.A. t-shirts, jeans, and face masks are kind of obviously not real agents. DEA teams roll deep and are heavily armed/armored.

Face masks are a big clue. While I have seen many photos of legit SWAT teams wearing masks, I don't agree with the practice. Most agencies whom I have worked with and have knowledge of do not don face masks during SWAT response. Unless you want to protect exposes skin from chemical splash/burns (as some investigations may lead you to encounter), I see absolutely no reason why a "good guy" should cover their face.