dogtown tom
New member
My vote goes to the 1909 Argentine Mausers
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What would be the best Milsurp Rifle?
- Thread starter Milsurplover
- Start date
Ignition Override
New member
Milsurplover:
Among other people who know their guns, madcratebuilder really know his Enfields.
If you want the ease of aperture sights and really good value, an Enfield #4 and then a 'Service Grade' Garand from the CMP are recommended.
The Enfield #5's recoil is not as bad as what many people claim, but there are many imitations.
My shoulders are skinny, but standing or sitting upright with a "chickenwing" keeps the recoil more comfy than with my Yugo Mauser.
My first "Jungle Carbine" came from "Joesalter.com".
You look much longer to find a good Enfield #4 or #5 (except on "Joesalter"), therefore searching for a good Garand need not be in haste.
Among other people who know their guns, madcratebuilder really know his Enfields.
If you want the ease of aperture sights and really good value, an Enfield #4 and then a 'Service Grade' Garand from the CMP are recommended.
The Enfield #5's recoil is not as bad as what many people claim, but there are many imitations.
My shoulders are skinny, but standing or sitting upright with a "chickenwing" keeps the recoil more comfy than with my Yugo Mauser.
My first "Jungle Carbine" came from "Joesalter.com".
You look much longer to find a good Enfield #4 or #5 (except on "Joesalter"), therefore searching for a good Garand need not be in haste.
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Jim, while no major offensives were to the K31's credit....they did kill some nazis in border clashes. One involved a a french town being ransacked by the SS, with german gunfire directed toward the swiss side of the town...the swiss troopers showed the SS thier marksmanship training in return with k31 and machinegun fire ...stopping the slaughter of french civilans and routing the SS from the town with heavy SS causulties.
the K31 guarded the Vatican in the hands of the swiss guard unit for several decades(till the sig 550 5.56mm)
a few german and american airmen were killed with the k31 during escape attempts from swiss P.O.W. camps.
The K31 was fired in anger.
the K31 guarded the Vatican in the hands of the swiss guard unit for several decades(till the sig 550 5.56mm)
a few german and american airmen were killed with the k31 during escape attempts from swiss P.O.W. camps.
The K31 was fired in anger.
From personal experience, the M1917 Eddystone is very nice and accurate. Enfield SMLE's are quite interesting and fun. Also in the very accurate department is the Carl Gustaf Swedish Mauser. Mosin–Nagant's as also fascinating and happen to be very plentiful lately, both in 91/30 (which I need to get) and M44 iterations. The Egyptian Haakim rifle is a hell of a blast, literally. I recently acquired a Polish made Tokarev that I've taken quite a liking to. Others that I'd suggest, that are on my "need to get list" are a Swiss K-31, Russian Makarov, German K98, Argentine or Chilean Mauser in 7X57, 1895 Nagant revolver and a CZ-70 for starters. Of coarse an M14, Garand, M1 Carbine and Springfield 1903 would be great as well to add to any collection. Sadly, since they've all been raised up to ridiculously over inflated prices over the last 15 years I'll probably never have any of them. But if money is no object then by all means go for it.
Tikirocker
New member
Get em all, one of each ... that's where my collection has gone but my main area of interest is the Enfield rifles. I have out shot scoped modern rifles from the off hand position at 200 yards at my range using my 1942 Lithgow No1 MkIII* using irons ... much to the chagrin of those further down the line. No problems with accuracy and Enfields, I load my own ammo as well.
( I don't really class the K31 as a Milsurp ... as it was not used by a combatant nation and never really saw dedicated action - it's a nice target rifle, but not really a legit battle rifle )
Tiki.
( I don't really class the K31 as a Milsurp ... as it was not used by a combatant nation and never really saw dedicated action - it's a nice target rifle, but not really a legit battle rifle )
Tiki.
Tikirocker
New member
It was never shot in a battle, this is true
Exactly ... in my view it's not a battle rifle or a rifle in the same class as those fielded by the Allied and Axis combatants of WW2; it didn't feature.
Tiki.
Gunplummer
New member
If you want to shoot them, add an M-1 Carbine, the ammo is reasonable.
...I don't really class the K31 as a Milsurp ... as it was not used by a combatant nation and never really saw dedicated action - it's a nice target rifle, but not really a legit battle rifle...
A distinction without a difference - it is a milsurp because it is a military surplus.
Tikirocker
New member
A distinction without a difference - it is a milsurp because it is a military surplus.
Many collectors of WW1 and WW2 Military surplus don't class it as a legitimately tested battle rifle. As a matter of semantics, it can be claimed that it is ex military and therefore a Milsurp. Closer examination of the issue reveals that it didn't serve with the same distinction as the main battle rifles of the Allied and Axis forces of either WW1 and WW2 and that is why the distinction can be, and often is made. So yes it is a Milsurp ... but the term Milsurp for many collectors is synonymous with rifles that saw service with a major combatant.
Tiki.
simonkenton
New member
The best milsurp rifle?
Swedish Mauser, hands down.
Swedish Mauser, hands down.
Cheapshooter
New member
"the greatest battle implement ever devised" by General George S. Patton,
M1 Garand
That being said, and considering the relatively high cost I would say for a beginning collector any of the afore mentioned lower priced rifles are good starters.
Ignition Override
New member
Milsurplover: If you can shoot well with the old open sights, you can buy a really good/exc. Yugo 24/47 Mauser, or 48 for about $200-250. The surplus ammo should still be about .25/rd., as it was last spring.
A company now advertises that their rear scope mount requires no (perm.) alteration for a short scout scope.
GregM:
I missed your comments earlier about the "Jungle Carbine".
You had 'stolen my thunder', and finally saw where you state that it is also your favorite rifle.
Just in case you are not too far, visits to my brother's outdoor club by Evansville always includes an Enfield #5 and the SKS.
A company now advertises that their rear scope mount requires no (perm.) alteration for a short scout scope.
GregM:
I missed your comments earlier about the "Jungle Carbine".
You had 'stolen my thunder', and finally saw where you state that it is also your favorite rifle.
Just in case you are not too far, visits to my brother's outdoor club by Evansville always includes an Enfield #5 and the SKS.
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Glenn Bartley
New member
I have a Mossberg M44, in .22LR, that was a military issued trainer and which I bought from the CMP as military surplus. Most people do not think of a rifle in .22LR as milsurp, but if they were military trainers then indeed they are milsurp. As for the M44, it is a great rifle, accurate as a tack driver, and was not that expensive. I do imagine though they have gone up in price more than a little bit since I got mine several years ago.
I also have a couple of Mosin Nagants - one M44 and a 91/30, a Yugoslavian SKS, and a Yugoslavian M24/47 in 8mm Mauser. M24/47 is pretty accurate and a strong rifle. I like it a lot. All are great rifles. I also owned a couple other SKS's and another Nagant M44 but sold them. Those are the milsurp rifles I can speak to through ownership. Of all of them, the Mossberg M44 is by far the best quality rifle and the best shooter.
I would like to pick up a decent Enfield, bought a couple but returned them to the dealer because the crowns were badly scraped, sure would like another in nice shape.
As for the best overall, I have not tried enough of em yet to be able to answer and any answer I could give would be very subjective to personal likes and dislikes.
All the best,
Glenn B
I also have a couple of Mosin Nagants - one M44 and a 91/30, a Yugoslavian SKS, and a Yugoslavian M24/47 in 8mm Mauser. M24/47 is pretty accurate and a strong rifle. I like it a lot. All are great rifles. I also owned a couple other SKS's and another Nagant M44 but sold them. Those are the milsurp rifles I can speak to through ownership. Of all of them, the Mossberg M44 is by far the best quality rifle and the best shooter.
I would like to pick up a decent Enfield, bought a couple but returned them to the dealer because the crowns were badly scraped, sure would like another in nice shape.
As for the best overall, I have not tried enough of em yet to be able to answer and any answer I could give would be very subjective to personal likes and dislikes.
All the best,
Glenn B
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.300 Weatherby Mag
New member
No love for the Arisakas on the accuracy front?? My type 38 is scary accurate... My remington built Mosin Nagant m91 is really accurate and only the M39 Finn is comparable in the Mosin Family...
Wow! Favorite (in my collection)?
History:
1895 Chilean M95 Mauser
1939 Soviet (Finnish capture) Tula Mosin 91/30
1917 LSA Enfield No.1 Mk. III
Accuracy:
1945 Long Branch Enfield No.4 Mk.I*
1954 Spanish FR8
1954 Romanian Mosin M44
1954 HRA M1 Garand
Just Plain Neat:
1945 Fazakerly No.5 Mk.I
1907 Soviet (Czech rework) Izhevsk Mosin 91/38
1942 Sako (1898 Sestroryetsk) Mosin M39
1904 Hopkins & Allen 12guage
History:
1895 Chilean M95 Mauser
1939 Soviet (Finnish capture) Tula Mosin 91/30
1917 LSA Enfield No.1 Mk. III
Accuracy:
1945 Long Branch Enfield No.4 Mk.I*
1954 Spanish FR8
1954 Romanian Mosin M44
1954 HRA M1 Garand
Just Plain Neat:
1945 Fazakerly No.5 Mk.I
1907 Soviet (Czech rework) Izhevsk Mosin 91/38
1942 Sako (1898 Sestroryetsk) Mosin M39
1904 Hopkins & Allen 12guage
it was one or more K31 (or K11) in each Swiss home that allowed the Confoederatio to remain free during IIWW....
That and being a manufacturing center for the Third Reich.
If we eliminate the K-31 then would we have to do the same thing to the Swedish Mauser?
What counts as enough military use?
The 6mm Lee Navy saw some limited use. Nothing like the Krag and the Krag was limited to a brief war and police actions. The French MAS 49 didn't see much action.
If we go back to the black powder age there are several rifles that only saw colonial action (keeping the natives in their place).
Personally I think the Swedish Mauser should be near the top of any list of quality milsurps. We should base our opinions on the quality of the rifle not that is chanced to be involved in a conflict.
Tikirocker
New member
We should base our opinions on the quality of the rifle not that is chanced to be involved in a conflict.
Nobody has questioned the quality of the K31, on the contrary, what is in question is its legitimacy as a battle proven rifle within some circles of collecting and shooting communities. There is no room for straw men here ... the issue has nothing to do with quality, but rather legacy.
Tiki.