What "type" of gun do you use to introduce newbies?

Why I start with a DA/SA revolver.

"There's no cocking/decocking, long triggers, etc. It's just point and click.

Then we build from there."

Because I desire to teach them a little more about guns in general I guess,,,
Not just familiarize them with the easiest type of handgun to shoot.

For example I want them to physically experience what happens,,,
When you manually cock the hammer on a revolver,,,
Then decide not to shoot that round.

I want them to understand that you now have a round out of sequence.

Remember my friend,,,
I'm not trying to change anyone's mind here,,,
In starting this thread I really wanted to read different opinions.

If a person said to me, I need a handgun TODAY for protection,,,
I need to buy one today and learn how to shoot it today,,,
I'd probably say, Let's get you a GLOCK and some ammo.

But when I take a newbie out to the range,,,
I want to turn them into a knowledgeable gun handler.

Every kid I know who learned to drive with an automatic,,,
Had trouble transitioning to a manual shift.

Every kid I know who learned to drive with a manual shift,,,
Had no trouble transitioning to an automatic.

Same with archery,,,
Learn on a self bow and then transitioning to a compound is easy,,,
Start out on a compound and it's not so easy to learn to shoot a recurve.

Just my not-so-humble opinion.

Aarond

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It's all good and well to start a new shooter out slowly and work your way up to more and more powerful calibers.
And if you have the time to teach, and if you have the guns to let them learn on, and if the newbie can afford the ammo (or if you're willing to provid the ammo)...THAT'S GREAT.

But most of us lead busy lives with our free time being demanded by family and friends and home projects, and internet forums, ect...
Taking the slow and steady path might not be a viable option.

Even the U.S. military went to automatic transmissions because it didn't take as much training time to teach a soldier how to proficiently drive an automatic vs a manual.
Training time is always limited, and there is so much to learn for a new Soldier.
 
I'm of the single shot bolt action 22 rifle clan. If handguns are the next step,open iron sights would be OK.

I'll give some reasons.

A new shooter has a lot of new thing to focus on. Simplifying it makes it easier to do a few things well.
Safety considerations.Muzzle discipline with a long gun is easer to keep track of. Sweeps happen quick with a handgun.
Its easier to keep track of "Loaded or clear" with a bolt SS 22 with the bolt either open or its hot.
By making safety as simple as possible,its more likely there will be no dangerous incident,and its really OK if our newbie is able to avoid having a stressed coach or RO "explain things" after a pistol sweeps someone.

The basics of shooting. Natural point of aim. Breathing. Sight alignment trigger control. Follow through.

All of them apply to both rifle and handgun shooting.

Its far easier to learn from success beginning with a rifle.

A person can't focus on too many new things at once.

Whether slung up,prone or even bench and bag,at 50 feet,the initial sight alignment,breathing,and trigger control can be its own focus. And the feeling of hitting "Bullseyes" is encouraging!!
Mostly keeping them inside the 8 ring on a 50 ft target might be an achievable goal.

Then step up to prone. Success there can lead to sitting,etc.

When our shooter can keep them in the black standing at 50 feet....Its a level of competence with the basics.

Now we can apply all those fundamentals...practiced,understood fundamentals ,to the more difficult handgun.

Even with a 22,the bounce of recoil covers up many sins.

Ammo is cheap,and,using ear protection,the flinch experience is unnecessary

(That will come later!!)

By this time,range safety should be more well ingrained.

Realisticlly,next step would be based on available firearms.A single action revolver is a good choice. So is 22,though 32 or 38 target wadcutters will do.

IMO,nothing wrong with going two handed hold.

Once again,take the time to master keeping them in the black on an appropriate NRAbullseye target,one hand or two,with cheap,very mild ammo.

Then step up to a 9mm duty full size auto,or a mid size frame DA 38/357 with mild loads,

And begin to intro the SD sort of shooting,including speed.

A shallow table saw kerf in a chunk of 2x4 makes a good groove to stand Ritz cracker in.,or saltines.

I understand,for some folks the realization hits them "I want a gun" You can buy that.

But there is no "Instant Pudding solution " to becoming competent with that firearm.

There is not a guitar in the world that will make you a rock star just for owning it.

Its just an undeniable reality that learning to play a guitar takes some time and effort.

While I will concede,its possible to start a new shooter with a 9mm,or 38/357. an M-4...or ,as Veterans likely know,a Garand and a 1911.

Even if I only had a weekend to teach someone basic competence with a 9mm handgun we would start out shooting at least 50 or 100 rds of 22 through a single shot rifle. Its the simplest,least cluttered way to focus on natural point of aim,sight alignment,breathing,and trigger control.

Without those,it can be difficult to hit a queen sized mattress at 30 feet for a new shooter with a handgun.
 
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For someone who has never shot before, I always demonstrate with an airsoft gun. I go over gun safety, grip, stance, sight alignment, breathing and trigger pull.

When we go to live fire, I start with my Browning Buckmark. The idea is to build confidence and minimize the flinch reflex. I then move to a full sized 9mm from there. If I see they are comfortable and not flinching, I move to .45 acp. I don't shoot much .40 S&W these days. I sometimes bring my Ruger GP100 and will start on .38 Special before going to .357 mag. I am not a big revolver fan so I don't always bring it.

I hate watching video where people give new shooters very powerful guns. Why scare new shooters and risk injury? It is irresponsible and dangerous.
 
I start with the gun they will use, a 22 rimfire. My last two have been kids and I used a Ruger SR22 because it was small enough for them to grip well. First off is the safety lecture and demonstration with the gun empty and then each got to handle it and demonstrate that the safety lecture "took". Then each got to shoot it loaded with a single round and this was the procedure until I was satisfied they would follow safety rules. Then they got to load two rounds for awhile and then finally went to a full magazine. The oldest is large enough now to hold any of my various rimfire handguns but she still likes the little Ruger with the red dot sight. It's a bit embarrassing to admit that she can out shoot me with the little thing now. That fact may just be one of the reasons she likes it. The younger one still has some growing to do before larger guns are an option.

I haven't introduced any adults to pistol shooting in years but if I did it would start with a 22 rimfire and size would depend on the adult's size.
 
I'm enjoying reading the reasons behind each person's preference,,,
In many cases they make perfect sense to me.

Most of the different opinions seem to revolve around different training goals.

Thanks for responding gentlemen,,,
I'm being exposed to new ideas here.

Aarond

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I remember taking the NRA Basic Handgun Safety course years ago with a BHP rental gun. The instructor advised to try out every type of handgun you can for at least 6 months before you committed to a first purchase. I probably tried a dozen different guns for more than 6 months before I got a deal on a decent Sig P228 and to this day I know what that instructor said back then was really good advice and I know I made a good first choice.
 
Right now I am helping a lady,, in her 40’s, I guess, decide on her carry gun. She’s fairly strong, so can shoot any handgun. I’ve had her try everything from 22LR to a 45....She thinks the 45 is way too heavy,,,,she says she doesn’t have to hit the bad guy with it, cause the shock wave will kill him...She can put a full mag thru it with no problem and for some reason always ends up with the giggles.
However, right now she is favoring what she called ‘the ray gun’. A Remington R51, she likes the way it fits her hand, the slight recoil and the easy to aim....She is trying several others, but always goes back to that one.
 
Walther P22 or one of my Charter Arms .38's with exposed hammer. When bumping up to the .38, I start with Magtech .38 shorts, then eventually graduate up to cowboy loads, and then wadcutters.
 
Yes, definitely DA/SA revolver with exposed hammer. I like standard-pressure .38 special from a ~4" K or L frame. Really spend some time with it and talk them through what is happening with some electronic muffs.

Then for fun, once they have the hang of it and want to try, you can bump up to .357 magnum with reactive targets like water jugs, cheap soda, or overripe fruit. :)
 
I have taught a few people and have a routine.

I spend day 1 in garage with them and firearms, with snap caps and no live ammo.

I actually introduce them to EVERY type of semi-auto and EVERY type of revolver that I own, so that they know how to load/unload and handle anything they might pick up.

I work with them on loading/unloading, grip, sight alignment, trigger squeeze and avoiding flinching.

It is about getting them comfortable with all of them, so there is no stress. And, all of this is without live ammo- and without the ability to 'rush' things to go shoot them.

I start them with .22lr and move up through different calibers to the largest they can hold on target with the sights aligned.


Day two we go to the range and repeat, with live ammo, in each caliber and type.


I have moved everyone through: 22lr, .380acp, .38sp, 9mm, .45acp, .40S&W, .45LC, .357mag, .44mag.

Heck, the 11 year old girl went all the way up to .44 mag and fired that twice, hitting the target both times. Then she decided it was more than she wanted to do. She wanted to keep shooting, so picked my 5" 1911 in .45acp to keep having fun, as it felt 'best' in her hand.

This is all about familiarity and confidence.

Second range trip we focus on one or two firearms and spend time becoming proficient with them. First time is just safe use, familiarity and confidence.

That is how I do it, but I am lucky in that I've inherited a lot of options, and bought some of my own.

Yet, everyone starts with my .22lr revolvers, then go to semi-autos.
 
Consider the Ladies

Yet, everyone starts with my .22lr revolvers, then go to semi-autos.
Click to expand...
I agree and there is a benefit for starting out with SA/DA revolvers that I forgot till I spoke with a fellow instructor. He asked the question;

"Have you ever asked a female students to load her own magazines?"

Be Safe !!!
 
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Pahoo said:
I agree and there is a benefit for starting out with SA/DA revolvers that I forgot till I spoke with a fellow instructor. He asked the question;

"Have you ever asked a female students to load her own magazines?"

Be Safe !!!
Click to expand...
I've never seen any adult female that could not load a magazine with just their hands.
Heck, I've seen 13 year old girls load magazines with just their hands.
They might not load it to full capacity (maybe 1 or 2 shy), but they definitely can load it.
 
jmstr said:
I have taught a few people and have a routine.

I spend day 1 in garage with them and firearms, with snap caps and no live ammo.

I actually introduce them to EVERY type of semi-auto and EVERY type of revolver that I own, so that they know how to load/unload and handle anything they might pick up.
Click to expand...

I don't know that this is the best method.

I am a radiologic technologist (aka X-Ray Tech) and I work with students every week.
I would never start them off by instructing them on every X-ray machine we have in the entire hospital (from portables, to trauma ER rooms, to C-Arms in surgery, to 3D spin C-arms, to mini C-arms, to fluoro tables, to pantomograms, to head units).

It would be sensory overload.
the typical person is just not going to retain enough knowledge to competently use all of those machines.

Better to start them off on say 1 portable X-ray machine and 1 diagnostic routine X-ray room.
Once they have shown competence with those, then you can teach them the other different machines.
 
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I've never seen any adult female that could not load a magazine with just their hands.
Click to expand...

One way to jump to inaccurate conclusions is to paste on a monolithic label and then put all individual samples in the same box.

We have "Magazines" and we have "Adult women"

"Adult Women" is a pretty broad brush. Many are not nearly as weak and frail as they are alleged to be.
I've known 3 women who are tire busters. Some are machinists. I know of one welder. One woman chef I know has man-like strong hands.Farming,gardening,and horse women tend to have strong hands. A baker who kneads dough all day might be pretty strong.
My 40 year old daughter trains crossfit. I've seen her do pullups where she then brings her feet up to touch the bar.
And there are men who get their hand strength in a chair at a keyboard.

Arthritis,carpal tunnel,etc can hit anyone.

Magazines? A 1911 and most other single stacks are pretty easy.
But my S+W M+P 9C magazines are difficult to load without a Magula for myself. I have not tried a Shield,but I would not assume they are easy.
I'm not a Ninja Gladiator, but I'm not lacking in hand strength.

I'll agree with
" Many Women and teens have adequate hand strength to load some magazines.Other magazines are just difficult to load,even with good hand strength.A tool like the Magula helps Some folks,such as the elderly,might have better luck with a revolver"

We have to start with whatever is true for the shooter.

[QUOTEIt would be sensory overload.
the typical person is just not going to retain enough knowledge to competently use all of those machines.

Better to start them off on say 1 portable X-ray machine and 1 diagnostic routine X-ray room.
Once they have shown competence with those, then you can teach them the other different machin][/QUOTE]

This,I agree with. Overwhelming someone with new information is not an effective way to teach. Maybe in any one lesson you will be successful teaching three new things. Up that to nine new things,a lot will get lost.

However,I've had a few great range sessions where I brought a large variety of firearms and ammo.

Mostly kids.,young folks ,or new shooters.

My rule was one student would be paired with one responsible,experienced adult who would supervise and coach that individual at all times on the firing line.

Any student could point to any gun and say : "May I try that one?"

There were no imbecile moves...if a kid pointed at the 44 Magnum Super Black hawk,they would be steered toward a Single Six in 22 or 32 H+R.
But it would be no problem if they tried an M-1 carbine,an SKS,an AR,and an FN-FAL on the bipod that day.
The thing is,its just an experience. It IS immersion,but there is no expectation that anything is retained.

The lessons in marksmanship would return to the one familiar firearm,probably a bolt 22. IMO,its not wrong to follow the old NRA Junior 50 foot progression....shooting bullseye for a while.

If you want to become a musician,you might start with piano lessons and reading music.
A basketball player might start with dribbling ,then dribbling and moving.And shooting baskets.

There is a certain amount of drill on the basic fundamentals to establish a foundation. Jumping ahead of that plan establishes bad habits that have to be unlearned to progress.
 
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Originally Posted by jmstr View Post
I have taught a few people and have a routine.

I spend day 1 in garage with them and firearms, with snap caps and no live ammo.

I actually introduce them to EVERY type of semi-auto and EVERY type of revolver that I own, so that they know how to load/unload and handle anything they might pick up.
Click to expand...

I'm not a certified NRA trainer, but I agree with peacefulgary: 1 gun at a time.

Guns, by design, are dangerous. A new shooter needs to digest the 4 rules 1st, THEN be introduced to the gun and what those rules mean for THAT gun, going over the 4 rules again. Then sight alignment, grip, body position, trigger pull. Lots of trigger pull. Each gun has it's own trigger pull to learn. That's a fine motor skill I want them to master and appreciate. I can't imagine breezing through those steps just to show off my vast collection.
 
I don't teach to promote either; Just present options !!

I've never seen any adult female that could not load a magazine with just their hands.
Click to expand...
And I know a "few" women that defer that task to someone else. You won't have a big problem with younger females and that's fine but on the older ones, it "can" be a minor problem that is not present with revolver. When I teach, I bring both but start out with a revolver. ...... :)

Be Safe
 
"I've never seen any adult female that could not load a magazine with just their hands"

I have however seen many who say they "can't",,,
Because that final 2-3 rounds hurts their fingers.

Heck, even I don't like stuffing those last few into my CZ-75B magazines,,,
But that's why Uplula loaders were invented.

I am a "trainer" by profession,,,
Trained by the USAF and 7 years of university.

Personally I take short shrift with anyone who says,,,
"That's too hard."

I usually stop right there and say,,,
"If you say so, who am I to argue with you."

Shame rarely works with children,,,
But is often very effective with adults.

Bottom line is if they can't/won't load their own mags,,,
They are forced to stay with revolvers.

Most of the time they buck up and learn to load their own mags.

Aarond

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“Necessity is the mother of invention” is true in many ways.

Research shows clearly that it’s very hard (some say impossible) to learn things with the need or motivation to. After all, why learn to load magazines when someone else will do it for you?

It’s hard to stand back and let people struggle but the goal of teaching is learning, not teaching. Many people fall in to the number one teacher’s trap of having so much fun demonstrating their expertise they forget that people watching them don’t learn much more than “the teacher is really good at it.”

Many years ago I was riding my bicycle out in the country. A woman was on the side of the road with a flat bike tire. “Hi! Do you have everything you need?” I asked.
“Yes!” She replied cheerfully, making no moves to change her tire.
“Uh, if you need help I’d be happy to teach you how to change out your tube..”
“Oh no! Whenever I get a flat some attractive man stops and does it for me!”
“... well, good luck” and off I went, continuing my ride.

I would teach any cyclist on the side of the road or stop and see if anyone needed an extra tire lever or third hand for some of the really tight tires... but my wife can change her own tires like a pro because that’s what I feel keeps her safe and she got tired of guys stopping and doing it wrong and blowing her spare tube.

Point is, everyone loads their own magazines and “you shoot it, you clean it.”

It’s how people learn and knowledge is power.
 
I teach. I train. Im certified. I write my own curriculum too.

this is my way....

person walks in.
say they want to learn to shoot.
ok.
1. what do you want to shoot?(paper,animal.human)
2. what do you want to hit it with?(size bullet)
3. how far away will you be?
4. do you own a gun?
6. how simple do you want one to be?(revolver,semi,single shot)
7. how good are your eyes?
8. lets try some grip sizes(balance, pointability)
9. bench it. (breathing drills)
10. lift it. (6 second drills)
11. stand with it. (do dudd drills.)
12. test.

as you can see, type gun is a very small segment of the learning process. many factors will determine the correct answer.
hope this helps.
 
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