What to do about a lusy gunsmithing job?

All too common a story. A good gunsmith builds a reputation. Then he dies, loses interest, or gets too busy, and the bulk of the work is taken over by his "apprentices" who are untrained, incompetent, lazy or don't care, or any combination of the above.

If the show owner is a good guy, he tries to make good and meantime educate his hired help. If he is not, he tells the customer to go to a warm climate, figuring that another sucker will walk in the door in a couple of minutes.

I hate to see any gunsmith shop fold, but some deserve it.

Jim
 
No mercy, pass the word.
We put a store (not guns) here out of business for mistreatment of an employee - a shooter's wife - by adverse publicity and boycott.
 
Please re-post on other forums. I am less interested in revenge at this point than in saving others from such an experience.
 
OK, but what to do about the rifle?
I'm with RomaRana, patch it up and shoot it.
The bad news is, the local klutz screwed it up.
The good news is, it works and is suitably accurate.
The next one off the boat might not be.
So get it to a good shop - it isn't THAT far from Nashville to Knoxville along I40.
Have the Lyman sight properly located. If that uncovers the klutz holes, put plug screws in them.
Have the front sight straightened up.
Have the tangent rear sight base milled or filed flat and darkened with cold blue.
Scrounge up a bandspring.
Go shooting.
 
what this guys e-mail address? if enough people get in contact with him about this maybe he will realize that he is going to lose ALOT of business over it and make it right. I would not have paid money for the DAMAGE he did, note i didnt say work i said damage.
 
He's not on-line. Probably doesn't realize how fast news travel that way.

I am researching small claims court options.
 
Oleg, I have done a couple of the rear peep arrangements, and the guy may have done you a favor, that is if you can live with out the charge guide. If a person wishes to use an adjustable apareture sight, you need to cheat the base forward to clear the bolt. The peep sticks too far to the rear otherwise. The adjustabe opening is a joy to use, and you control the opening size, and the amount of light by twisting. As you vary the size of the opening, you will notice the front sight either clear or fuzz up. This allows you to quickly bring your front sight into focus without changing peeps. Millet makes them.
Yeah, the guy is a butcher, but if you sporterize this thing don't be to hasty to move the rear base. Mike
 
Yeah, the guy is a butcher, but if you sporterize this thing don't be to hasty to move the rear base.
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He was hired as a professional to do a professional job, which he did not do, and he did not conduct himself in a professional manner afterwards.

He was specifically asked to install the rear sight ONLY IF stripper clips could be used with it - that "gunsmith" had no right to go ahead and install it otherwise.

Also, that "gunsmith", being the professional, has the obligation to say "I can't do that," - meaning if he could not complete the job in a satisfactory manner within the time specified by the customer, than he should have said so. Oleg did not say, "Oh, I'll take a half-ass hack job on the original rear sight, as long as you're done by tomorrow." Oleg was not pushy.

If this "gunsmith" had any ounce of pride in his craft, he should have remedied the problem instead of trying to sell Oleg an equivalent rifle as "compensation".
 
I would almost bet that "gunsmith", if he is under 50, has no idea what a clip is or how it is used. He probably wonders what that funny looking hole in the receiver is for.

Jim
 
for what it's worth, it's also entirely possible to have a rear aperature sight not interfere with either bolt handle OR clip guide -- I've an old 1903 that was sporterized in the 60's or so, and all parts work together fine.

So jah, hack job. :barf:


-K


He tried to sell Oleg a replacement? :eek:
Guy's got nerve.
 
I will take the rifle to the next gun show and a poster on it. I don't think small claims court would be worth my time.
 
You guys are correct, it is possible to have a rear peep that does not block the bolt, and that the guy is not a professional. However, the facts that the guy is not a professional and that one of you has an '03 are not germain to what I said. I do not care how the sight got to be where it is or whether or not an '03 can have a sight that does not interfer with the bolt.
Engage your brain. It is easy to huff and puff about what you would do, but this does not rectify the situation. The shop owner seems unwilling to bend, and following some of the advice given here would probably land Oleg in jail. Should Oleg decide to sue, his only cheap way out would be in a small claims court. He would have to prove that negligence not incompetence was the the reason the sight was mismounted. That is damn unlikely to happen.
Oleg is probably stuck with what he has. He can either be pissed off, get over it or make the best of a bad situation. Yes, even a Mauser can have a peep that does not interfer with the bolt, but there is little clearance and none if one uses an adjustable peep by Merrit. Do you even know what I am talking about, or are you like the guy who put on the sight? That is, ready to jump in without the experience or knowledge to help Oleg out.
Oleg, I say again, should you decide to sporterize contemplate keeping the base where it is. If you would like to try a Merrit, to see what I mean, I will mail you one of mine to try. Just send it back in a couple of weeks. Mike
 
He would have to prove that negligence not incompetence was the the reason the sight was mismounted. That is damn unlikely to happen.
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I'm not a lawyer, but I'd say if Oleg took it took court, he'd win easily and recover court costs.

Oleg saw the workmanship on other rifles, including similar ones, that was done at this shop. He advertised as a professional gunsmith who can do a professional gunsmith job. After seeing his previous handiwork, he had no reason to believe otherwise.

Being incompetant also doesn't make this "gunsmith" any less responsible.

Oleg said,"I only want the rear sight installed if I can use stripper clips." apparently, the gunsmith couldn't do it that way, but he installed it anyway.

He also reassembled the rifle improperly (negligently; seeing the other rifles in the shop, we knew this wasn't the first time he's had his hands on a Mauser). Luckily, Oleg was not injured when the rifle fell apart when he fired it -- otherwise there would be a medical bill to deal with afterwards.

Do you even know what I am talking about, or are you like the guy who put on the sight? That is, ready to jump in without the experience or knowledge to help Oleg out.
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If this comment was meant for me, please hold the mild condescending remarks. I do know what I'm talking about. I've seen the small claims court system at work many, many times, and no, I'm not talking about Court TV.

I've also had the rifle in my hands, before and after the hack job. And I was there at the shop. I'm a witness.
 
I'd say that no, you do not know what I am talking about. In fact you are right back moaning and groaning about Oleg's problem, with the gunsmith, instead of correcting me and telling me that it is Merit and not Millet that sells the adjustable peep. So, it appears as if you jumped right in moaning and groaning again without being able to comprehend what I had said to Oleg.
Life is not always getting what you want. Sometimes you get screwed. How you deal with that is what counts. The number of candles on a birthday cake has nothing to do with maturity. The ability to rise above a royal screwing is a better indicator.
If a person takes another person to court over a couple of bucks, and that is all that is really at stake here, how much per hour is the takee selling his time,his life, his peace of mind for?
Oh you say, this is not about money. That other individual screwed me! So he screwed you; are you now going to obsess about it and give that other individual control of your life? Being angry is okay. Letting that anger control your life to the point of parading around a gun show with a poster attached to a bungled up rifle, does not speak well of the one carrying the sign. Life is to short and uncertain to waste trying to get even with an uncaring, unprofessional gunsmith.
What I mentioned in my first post, was a way, and not the only way, to salvage not only part of the rifle, but a way for Oleg to experience something new, and perhaps gain further knowledge of his hobby. I didn't then, and I don't now give a darn how many rifles people own with peep sights, or about this gunsmith's problems.
A few years ago I had a nice rifle screwed up by a 'gunsmith.' It required a new barrel when he finished, and it was wearing a new Douglas XX when he started. I spoke with the fella a few weeks ago. I was nice and polite, but he will never get any business of mine again. And no, I don't bad mouth him. Had I stayed angry at him, how much of my life would have been spent in that state? It isn't worth it.
I spent today day in the shop milling out a falling block action on a Bridgeport. I also have a lathe and enough tools to do my own work now.
For a few bucks, probably less than $100, Oleg could set himself up so that he would not be dependent on others to do simple jobs. It is either run around in circles with the other mad dogs, or grow from the screwing. I hope you understand by now, 'cause I ain't awastin' no more time on it. Mike
 
Sounds like HD51fl works for Custom Gunsmithing... :D

So if Oleg fails to return your peepsight after he gets a look at it, are you going to encourage yourself to just forget it and move on? Or are you gonna run around in circles with the other "mad dogs"?

A little civility goes a long way on this board.
 
I'd say that no, you do not know what I am talking about. In fact you are right back moaning and groaning about Oleg's problem, with the gunsmith, instead of correcting me and telling me that it is Merit and not Millet that sells the adjustable peep. So, it appears as if you jumped right in moaning and groaning again without being able to comprehend what I had said to Oleg.
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And we continue with the mild condescending remarks.

If you can't get your brand names straight, that's your issue.

I think the original problem began here:
Yeah, the guy is a butcher, but if you sporterize this thing don't be to hasty to move the rear base.
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Maybe you meant trying out new sights, but it came across as, "He was a butcher, but you shouldn't have been hasty and hurried him," - as if you were placing blame on Oleg for the hack job, because, as the gunsmith claimed, Oleg wanted it done fast. So I answered this with why it wasn't his fault. The misinterpretation was a mistake on my part, and I apologize. Reciprocate? I in no way warranted your condescending language. "Rise above" it.

I am trying to ensure that maybe this won't happen to the next person who comes across this "gunsmith" - by suggesting to Oleg that he should take this man to court. The smith will have to be a man and face his responsibility instead of acting like a barking dog and trying to intimidate Oleg.

You're right, it's not about the money. There's not alot of money at stake here. It's about doing the right thing; what the "gunsmith" should've done in the first place. I don't mind taking time out of my day to get the problem remedied. It's not eating me inside out and causing me to lose sleep, either. It's not sick, warped revenge.

Go to the "Retail Deals and Feedback" forum here. There's gun owners trying to keep other gun owners from getting screwed. I'd like to know who's out there practicing bad business so I don't receive the same treatment.

This gunsmith goes by word of mouth. Why not walk around with the rifle at a show? Others will see it and remember, and hopefully it'll keep someone from ending up with a permanently mutilated family heirloom after he sends his prized gun to this smith. (Luckily, Oleg's rifle is an economically priced, non-heirloom.)

If Oleg chooses not to take any action, than that is his business. It's his rifle. It's his time.

If I saw you turning in your vehicle in to a notoriously bad auto shop for repair, I'd stop and tell you. If that's considered obsessing about how I had been screwed over by this repair shop, or "badmouthing", than call it so. You'd be happy not getting a bad brake job, losing control of your vehicle and smashing into a tree.

This is where I got the sign carrying idea from: A person I know bought a brand new car and it was a complete lemon. The dealership gave him the runaround continuously so they wouldn't have to deal with the repairs. He wrote, "(Company name) sold me a brand new lemon and doesn't care" on a big piece of posterboard, and taped it to the back of his lemon. He drove around like that. People saw it. The dealership called him in and swiftly dealt with the lemon problem. His car's fixed now.

(Edited for typo)
 
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KMKeller, Should Oleg steal from me, that is his problem. I would not have to convince myself to forget it. My problem would be that I trusted him. Personal responsibility, that means that if I make a decision, I am responsible for the results of that decision. If Oleg makes a decision to steal the peep, why would I fault him? I made the decision to offer to loan it to him. It is not like he crept into my shop under cover of darkness. Can you grasp that? The responsibility for choice behavior remains with the one making the choice, popular psychology aside.
Oleg should retain a little responsibility for his actions in regards his rifle. He had the opportunity to research this tradesman, he had the option of giving complete written instructions, he had the option of handing over a drawing of what he wanted, and he could have epoxied the thing in place to see if it would work as he wanted. He choose not to do these things. He took the chance I will take if he askes to borrow my peep. I will accept what comes my way as a result of my decision. Can you say that about the decisions you make? It isn't easy, but it is a damn sight better than not having a backbone.
I made a simple remark to Oleg. 'Do not be too hasty to move the rear base. ' It is in English, and quite plain in meaning. Any inferred meaning is within the person reading it. Runt decided to land on me due to the reasons he imported into the sentence I wrote. To that I say, if you cannot take it do not dish it out. Don't expect to vent on others and then climb up on your high horse and protest the treatment you get in return. Again personal responsibility. Runt decided to jump on me for offering Oleg a potentially helpful pointer. He bears responsibility for his actions. The question is whether or not he can shoulder it. He has apologized, and I accept it. It is up to him how he internalizes it.
I ain't p.o., upset, or angry over this. I have not got time to be. I am dissappointed though. So many gut reactions, and so little rational logic. It would have been such a pleasure to read that someone took the time to research the adjustable peep, to see that someone was eager to learn and grow. It would even have been nice to be corrected about the name as that would indicate that someone had checked, rather than remaining locked into what they already are sure of.
I wonder if Ann Landers got such responses to the statement, "If life hands you lemons, make lemonade."
 
hd51fl

Couple of flaws in your logic though. First, I think if Oleg had wanted to sporterize the piece, he would have taken it in and asked to have it sporterized. I agree that everyone should do their best to let bygones be bygones, but allowing someone to screw you over without doing something about it only ensures that this person will do the same to someone else down the road.

You speak of how refreshing it would be to see someone do a little research (of the peepsight) and learn and grow. I too would have loved to have seen a little research and growth on your part. Had you done a modicum of research, you would have learned that our Runt of the Litter is not a he, but a she and that Runt and Oleg have a very longstanding and somewhat emotional attachment to each other. Therefore, her indignant response to your dismissal of the 'smiths' incompetence is wholly understandable. Your attitude from your first post on has been dismissive and superior, where neither were appropriate and were based wholly upon your complete ignorance of the larger dynamics at work.

There are some of us left in this world who expect an honest effort for an honest dollar and are unwilling to allow someone to screw us. If you find that morally pleasing for yourself, more power to you, just don't try to feed it to others and expect them to swallow.

I believe if Oleg had asked what he could do with the weapon after it was butchered, your viewpoint would have been salient and wholly appreciated. The vein of this thread was indeed what to do about a lousy gunsmithing job, but it is clear from Oleg's first post that the question was geared towards how to obtain justice. Your posts were dismissive of his request and seemed to both defend the hack and blame Oleg for expecting that a good job be done. Where's the "rational logic" in that approach?

I can appreciate that you were trying to be helpful, but it would seem that you had an ulterior motive for interjecting into the thread. Was it perhaps to sell something to Oleg?
 
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