What the heck is it with these people!

Wayne,

A hypothetical question that might be worthy of asking the rape victim...
(not that I would want to reopen horrific memories)... so maybe better NOT to ask the victim, but to query the group in general, "Would it be right or wrong, if during the act of violence against you, a law-abiding citizen who came upon the scene, and having a weapon at hand, stopped the crime, during the course of which, said assailant who beat you and raped you, got shot and died? Because you know he's going to keep on doing it to other women and/or men."

Continuing along those lines... "The fact that no one here wishes to discuss this, in fact you ousted the one who raised this point, makes me ponder this, "Do you perhaps condone his actions, to perpetuate a 'victim of society mentality' and wish other weaker women and men to suffer the same outcome?" By removing me from the meeting, your actions point to that conclusion."

"Because we've know that Freedom isn't free. It comes at a great price. We are free to act in the manner we deem necessary to our lifestyle, provided we do not infringe on others rights or desires. However, should harm come my way, I have made the descision to fight it. There and then. Because if I choose to do nothing, those that delight in inflicting this harm will continue their evil acts. Sometimes violence IS the right answer."

At any rate, getting that off my chest makes me feel a little better.

I do hope your friend recovers from the ugly incident.

Continue to fight the good fight.
 
Baba Louie,

Thank you for that. I knew that this was going to be a hard row to hoe when I got into it (I have two agenda's here with this group, to teach them what I've learned) and I was just frustrated with them and their attitude.

I have to remember certain things, like I am considered a "grandfather" in the group as I am older, and maybe abit wiser, then most. The second oldest to me is around 26 if that. I have to remember what they were taught in school and what they are being taught in college (and yes, I've gone head to head with a couple of instructors here).

I have to remember that they grew up in the world as I was serving it (as a member of the military) and that while I was brought up around guns and think of them as a tool, they were taught that the tools were evil and that whatever happens to them is okay, because in some way they deserve it and that taking anothers life is a bigger taboo than anything else.

What I think that I may do is use their "selfisness" attitude against them. They mostly are all for the "me, me" concept and maybe I will use that to get them to rethink their position. That a firearm, when trained in it's use, will further their me, me attitude as by being in charge for themselves. The leader of the group, a lady, has her own agenda that she's been trying to push (that everything that you do is okay, don't eat meat (yes, she's one of those also), guns are evil, push your gayness into other peoples faces (she and I have gone at it a few times on this one), etc..).

I also have to remember that the college is the hub of liberalism here in town. That being so, and also one of the most crime rendered areas, due to "tolerance" of what they believe and the assault on those that don't believe the same, that I have taken a big bite and now I'm forced to chew on it.

But, I can do it :).

I'm going to take a page from the anti's playbook. They state, "If it saves just one child then it's worth it" and mine is, "If I can help train and prevent one of my brothers or sisters from violence, then it is worth it".

It just gets so frustrating sometimes, always trying to correct the wrong thinking of people when it comes to issues that it's draining on the mind as well as the soul. Its so much easier to just give money and then sit back, you skip the frustration, the heartache, and the headaches that come by being pro-active, but it's something that I can't/won't give up. I guess that I'm a sucker for punishment :D.

Wayne
 
Its so much easier to just give money and then sit back, you skip the frustration, the heartache, and the headaches
Click to expand...

Wayne
The problem with just giving money and calling it good is that the money can do as much damage as it can help. You said yourself that the "leader" of this group is pushing an agenda that is in direct conflict with your vision.

If you are to tired to continue with that group (that is not intended as a slight against you, it happens to the best of us) it would not help to further your vission by donating money as the leader of the group would use it as she sees fit.

Keep up the good fight, all deserve to defend themselves.
 
USB45: I noticed you were at a college. Anti-gun agendas are pushed hard by professors. These young folks are easy targets for a NEW left wing agenda. Colleges breed most anti-gun thinking. They are taught that gun owners are deranged, stupid, dangerous, and creepy. Thats why you were treated the way you were. They become ltle solders of the NEW left. Go to GUNGUYS.COM
Tell me those young folks are not brainwashed. The same people graduate and become our media, politicians, community leaders, and TEACHERS, wear it all starts again in evan younger minds.
 
Is there no where on that campus where you can join in those who share the intelligent views you have? If so seek them out and gain strength in numbers. If not, keep up the fight man, at least you have our support.:cool:
 
Usp - I would suggest that you gently bring some books to the group and suggested reading them.

Gun Women - Stange and Oyster
Real Knockouts - McCaughery

These are written by feminists who are confirmed believers in self-defense and firearms. They are not written from the point of view of the male.

Case in point, I used them in class and a female student who was antigun at first, told me that she found the arguments convincing.

A subtle approach is best. Telling people that they don't get it - gets you nowhere.
 
USP

David Rostcheck is an excellent communicator. Print some of his stuff or, better yet, wangle an invite from the group for him to speak.

Here's one from the KABAArchive
 
Usp

Take them to see Brokeback Mountain,
Take them to the range,
Show them the appropriate Oleg Volk posters.
Good Luck.
 
I suspect that you could have phrased your advice in a way that did not make her feel blamed for the past lack of readiness. Tact is hard to practice in such touchy situations, but it is essential to success.
 
The media is the message:

I was about to say the same as Oleg, but I'll put it differently.



"you should have had a gun and blown his balls off".

Would you have a different result with:
"Would some sort of weapon or other physical deterent have stopped your attack?"


I think we often make the mistake of seeing guns as their own magic category. But a gun is just another weapon; just like a stick, knife, baton, tazer or mace. The point is to make people think in terms of using defense tools, rather than make a huge mental jump to "guns are great".

Once people become interested in taking care of themselves, firearms start making more sense to them.

The second amendment isn't about "firearms", it is about "arms". Making that into a strictly firearm agenda makes the issue harder to discuss.


Wayne, I think your statement was just too blood thirsty for that group, shocked by the recent violence, to take without undo emotion. Whether that's smart of them or not has little to do with how effective you are as an ambassador of second amendment rights. I think you jumped the gun and short circuited a discussion of self-defense before it could start.
 
USP...While I totally feel that you were shuned because of the groups possible liberal anti gun stance, I wonder if perhaps you were a little insensitive to the woman at the time.

Think of it this way. A woman going to college get concern about crime and buys a whistle thinking that if she is in trouble she will just blow the whistle. "Wow, the perfect non-lethal weapon, this is the smart thing to do" she thinks to herself. She is the typical college student, young, confident, yet niave. The rape happens and her trusty whistle is completely useless, and this cocky, confident, woman gets raped and the snot beat out of her. She gets enough courage to tell her story in front of the group...now as a man you should let her tell her story, and AFTERWARDS, mention that if she was interested in a handgun, you can help her. Now I was not there, but you might of more or less gave the impression that this woman was stupid for carrying a whistle and should have been carrying a gun. Trust me she should have been carrying a gun, or at least some sort of weapon (OC, stun gun, etc) other that a whistle, but to tell her that right after she told the story in front of everyone might not have been wise. Also, You did not tell the group that you carry during all this ???
 
Wayne:

I agree with jcim. You might just have stumbled on the wrong place, time, and method of presenting the idea. It was a group, so they stuck together with their idea that you were a bad gun man.

Individually, they might have reacted differently.

I can tell you that gays aren't necessarily adverse to owning guns.

As for Pink Pistols, their website looks OK. But recently two members of Pink Pistols (at least that's what the newspapers said) showed themselves to be top-shelf Jerry Springer material here in Broward County. If memory serves, the brouhaha involved shooting (or maybe shooting at) a cop.

Personally, I'd rather gun owners identify themselves as "gun owners", rather than "gay gun owners", "jewish gun owners", "black gun owners", or even "redneck gun owners". But that's just me.
 
Advocacy group, particularly those on college campuses, tend to have idealized views of human nature. Those who pack guns tend to have more cynical (or realistic) views. Your presence in such a group causes a disturbance simply because your view of human nature is a variance with the group's prevailing view.

I would suggest continuing to participate. Don't beat any drums. Just maintain a steady, calm presence. One day a group member will siddle up and start asking questions. Those of us who are married to spouses who don't understand or accept guns in general or CCH in particular are all familar with "The Question". We are together and get into a situation where the spouse feels threatened. At that point opposition to guns and CCH disappears with the question, "You packin'?" At that point the spouse's worldview just changed forever. I would expect the same kind of event to take place eventually to someone in the group.
 
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