what the best milsurp rifle

I'm picking up my second 8mm yugo today, a M48A. Comes with over 300 rounds of yugo ammo, current owner claims no FTF's. The plan is the shoot it and my M48 this afternoon.
Maybe take the K31's along and burn up some gp11.
 
I was rained out, freak storm came through, blew down power lines and made a general mess of the afternoon. I didn't get power back until around midnight.
 
earlthegoat2:

A really young guy who helps develop the fully-automatic Saiga 12 (Alliance Armament) tried out my LE #5 "Jungle Carbine" days ago.
From 50 yards with the iron sights following two starting shots, he got four or five shots within a 2" x 3" pattern, on the upper edge of the black plastic's bullseye. Wish I could do that one day.

iac: :) "Roger that", for economical semi-auto milsurp rifle fun, the SKS.
 
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No criteria here for the term "best", so I'm going with most fun to shoot - Garand!

As for bolt guns, I'd have to go with the large ring Mauser simply because no other bolt action is as smooth to operate. They are surprising fast to shoot if you actually know how to shoot a bolt action.

Off subject, but if watching people at the range is any indication, then 95% of shooters don't know how to operate a bolt gun. Dad was a WWII vet, that enlisted in 39 when they were still training with Springfields. He taught me how to shoot.

The next time you're shooting a bolt action (of any kind), do NOT remove your cheek from the stock or lose your sight picture after each shot. Just snap your hand back and work the bolt while keeping your sight picture. You'll be amazed at how quickly you can shoot if you don't have to regain your sight picture after each shot. The cock-on-opening mechanism of the Mauser facilitates this and makes it faster and more accurate to shoot. When you first try it, you're afraid the bolt will hit you in the eye, but it won't if you've got a proper cheek weld.

I've never shot a Springfield, but I suspect (since it's such a close copy of the Mauser) that it's also fast to shoot. I have shot Swedes and Enfields and because of the force required to cock as the bolt slides forward, it makes accurate follow-up shots tougher.

my two cents....
 
The next time you're shooting a bolt action (of any kind), do NOT remove your cheek from the stock or lose your sight picture after each shot. Just snap your hand back and work the bolt while keeping your sight picture. You'll be amazed at how quickly you can shoot if you don't have to regain your sight picture after each shot. The cock-on-opening mechanism of the Mauser facilitates this and makes it faster and more accurate to shoot. When you first try it, you're afraid the bolt will hit you in the eye, but it won't if you've got a proper cheek weld.
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My Dad said the same thing to me when I was learning to shoot. He learned it from his Dad and his Uncles. :)

Forgot to add, that's how I shoot my mosin 91/30. It isn't the 303 I grew up with, but it is more accurate; at least it seems that way now, a few decades later.
 
The cock-on-opening mechanism of the Mauser facilitates this and makes it faster and more accurate to shoot. When you first try it, you're afraid the bolt will hit you in the eye, but it won't if you've got a proper cheek weld.

I've never shot a Springfield, but I suspect (since it's such a close copy of the Mauser) that it's also fast to shoot. I have shot Swedes and Enfields and because of the force required to cock as the bolt slides forward, it makes accurate follow-up shots tougher.
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Up until now I've been hearing just the opposite - that the cock-on-closing operation of the Enfield makes it quicker to cycle. So much quicker that, as anecdotally reported, Germans storming British troops thought they were facing semi-auto fire when it was only Enfields.
 
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Up until now I've been hearing just the opposite - that the cock-on-closing operation of the Enfield makes it quicker to cycle. So much quicker that, as anecdotally reported, Germans storming British troops thought they were facing semi-auto fire when it was only Enfields.
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My experience is that the force needed to drive that bolt forward in the cocking motion of an Enfield or small ring Mauser makes you lose your sight picture. Perhaps practice can overcome that, but I don't see how.

With the Mauser 98, you slap the bolt upward (cocking it) while the rifle is still in recoil, then the rear and forward motion is smooth and effortless, so by the time you lock the bolt again, you're on target and ready to shoot.

In either case, most people do it wrong. Films are even worse - even otherwise accurate films where they've done the homework to have the right arms, gear, etc, usually get this wrong. They show soldiers lifting their heads while they work the bolt - sometimes they even take the stock off their shoulders to work the bolt.

It's not exactly a pet peeve, but those of us with bolt guns should all learn how to do this. Perhaps in another generation, this art will be forgotten and nobody will know how to shoot a bolt gun with both speed and accuracy.
 
Up until now I've been hearing just the opposite - that the cock-on-closing operation of the Enfield makes it quicker to cycle. So much quicker that, as anecdotally reported, Germans storming British troops thought they were facing semi-auto fire when it was only Enfields.
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There's no reason a cock-on-closing rifle like the Enfield can't be shot very quickly. My point is more about keeping your sight picture while cocking, particularly during that forward motion just before your next shot is fired. I'm talking about quick and accurate fire, not just speed.

I suspect that old story about the rapid fire of the Enfield fooling the Germans may be apocryphal, but if true it's probably due to the ten round capacity of the Enfield. That large capacity gave the British the ability to put a lot more rounds downrange in a given time since they didn't have to stop and reload as often. All things considered, I think I'd rather make a frontal assault on a company of men armed with Mausers rather than Enfields.
 
Films are even worse - even otherwise accurate films where they've done the homework to have the right arms, gear, etc, usually get this wrong. They show soldiers lifting their heads while they work the bolt - sometimes they even take the stock off their shoulders to work the bolt.
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Guns in Hollywood don't recoil or heat up either. One can carry a .50 BAR and shoot it fully automatic under one's arm. Bad guys only hit the target when it's plot-convenient. And the sound of the cases hitting the ground is as loud as the shot itself.:rolleyes:
 
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