what should my draw speed be?

+1 on smooth is fast.

Start slowly at first. Perform each step methodically until you get comfortable with the motions and movements. Repeat each step slowly a dozen times initially and work towards making each as perfect as you can.

Then start putting the individual motions together at slow speed, but in one continuous motion. Then practice making each draw perfect, with no fumbling or other mistakes. Repeat, repeat, repeat, until it begins to feel natural. If you make any mistakes, slow down again and work out how not to make that mistake. Build up speed again.

Then it's a simple matter of continual practice until you don't even think about doing anything but "drawing" the gun. It's one, smooth, fast action.

I've seen a few folks who can draw a CCW gun in less than 1 second, firing one-handed. They move so smoothly and quickly the gun seems to just appear with little fuss. Most of the shooters who can draw & fire in under 1.5 seconds are "quick". If you're taking over two seconds, you should be using some kind of diversion technique to slow your opponent's reaction time.

You need two draws in your toolbox. The first results in a two-hand hold with the gun at eyeball height, ready to engage a target at 5 yards or more. The second is a single-hand presentation for "close quarters" shooting, when your opponent is inside the 12 foot range. You won't be able to use your normal reaction of a 2-hand hold if your opponent is within 6-8 feet or closer.
 
I was just wondering how much weight people gave to certain characteristics of the handgun when selecting a carry gun with regards to how it affects the draw, or ultimately, the speed of the draw. The action type, type of safety (if any), barrel length and weight. Although the type of safety is mentioned a lot, it isn't particularly in the context of speed, though that is clearly implied. The other factors don't seem to come up at all from a speed standpoint so much as from a concealment standpoint. Actually, it seems that all the same factors apply if a handgun were carried openly in a secure holster.

Perhaps other than action type and safety type, these factors may not make any noticable difference, provided there is a requirement to actually hit a target. There is a hard to describe characteristic of a handgun which you would call balance that might even make a greater difference than other factors, though everyone will have their own ideas of what that is.

Revolvers have long been used for "quick draw" by which I am not distinguishing from "fast draw." I am referring to live ammo usage and, really, to double action. An S&W K-frame has been around for ages and in all sorts of variations. In my own experiments a 4-inch heavy barrel with fixed sights is tough to beat, though a 3-inch barrel is handy enough. But make it a regular tapered barrel of any length and all the balance seems to disappear. I have had people comment on the difference between a 1911 length barrel and a Commander length barrel in the Colt automatics but I never made up my mind about the difference in a quick draw.

Same thing with the large frame revolver. The four inch versions have the best balance (for me) but the weight is a drag both on the draw and to carry. More modern automatics fall all over the place in terms of balance but some are very good in that respect and with some, you don't have to trouble with a safety. This all makes it easier once you have made the difficult decision of actually drawing the weapon.

You can't do it at the range but it might not be a bad idea to practice making a draw when you are sprinting. Your reaction to danger need not be an either-or answer.
 
Draw Speed Doesn't Matter

I know I'll catch flack for this, but... Trust me when I say it doesn't matter.

I had no practice drawing when I actually had to last year. None. In fact, I had only had my GA Firearms License (CC permit) for two weeks. If you ever find yourself in that situation (and I hope no one ever is!) it won't matter. Fight-or-flight kicks in, along with a heavy dose of adrenaline, and you do what you have to.

FWIW, you may not even remember drawing when in a real situation. I still don't.
 
Judging from my own experience, you probably also don't recall hearing the shot (if there was one) or feeling the recoil.
 
Slow is smooth, smooth is fast. Enough said. Speed may not matter as much as we like to emphasize, but proficiency does. If you can reliably draw and fire under 2.5 secs without fumbling 100 out of 100 times, you're ahead of the game if you were to draw and fire in under 1.5 secs 50 out of 100 times.

Speed isn't a bad thing, but smoothness and proficiency is WAY more important.
 
I was just wondering how much weight people gave to certain characteristics of the handgun when selecting a carry gun with regards to how it affects the draw, or ultimately, the speed of the draw. The action type, type of safety (if any), barrel length and weight.
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Jeff Cooper used to say that it didn't make much difference, as long as you trained with the gun in question. Between the time you cleared the holster and the time you got on target, no matter how fast you were, there was enough time to get the gun cocked, safety off, etc. Follow-up shots might be a different story. A SA revolver would slow you down compared to a SA auto or DA wheelgun.

Some of the old-time Western gunfighters used to practice what they called "Drop the Dollar". They'd put a silver dollar on the back of the gun hand at waist hight, then draw and snap (dryfire) before the dollar hit the ground. That's about 1/4 second. Pretty fast for a single-action sixgun.

In my younger days, I used to practice that drill with a 4" S&W .38 revolver and a homemade speed holster. It's not that tough, really.

A harder drill is to hold your arm out straight with the dollar on the back of your hand, go for the gun and hit the coin with the muzzle as it falls past your waist.
 
I think a good fast draw is an important fundamental of defensive handgunning. I have to disagree with the poster who called it irrelevant. It is one skill in the multitude of gunfighting skills that may be needed in a given situation. Yes, the chances are that you will have been able to anticipate danger and taken appropriate steps so that a quick draw is not needed. But what about a scenario such as getting caught by surprise by an armed suspect who now wants to force you into a car or somewhere else. All you need is that moment of distraction; He looks toward the distraction, and if your smooth and fast enough, you might be able stop his violent action. The quick draw may not be the most important factor to some but it should be practiced and never discounted.

As far as that goes, in my opinion, drawing from a concealment belt holster and getting a solid hit on target at around five yards in a range of 1.5 to 2 seconds is not too shabby. Anything faster then that is pretty dang fast.
 
Kyo,

If you are not situationaly aware, I suggest you be as fast as Jim 'The Waco Kid'. And that's mighty fast.

Speed is relative. Not only in yours .vs. the other guy(s) but in what tip offs you see. And how far they are, how the weapon is carried, lighting, traffic, other people. Things like that.

You can be lightning speed (which is a good skill to have) but if you are not there mentaly, well you will be left at the gate when the race starts.

What is more, your reaction time is based not from when you are on the highest alert, best condition, but when you are tired. Like after a days work (and that is why in a IDPA match I'm a SO. I'm tired by the time my turn comes at the end of the match. Kind of a test.)

Get as fast and sure as you can, and then stay alert when on the street. There are schools that focus on looking for indicators (SouthNarc is one of them.) Get that kind of training to add to your shooting skills.
 
If your CCW draw from concealment is 1 second or less I think you're very fast. I'd judge that many of the practiced folks draw in 1.25-1.35 seconds (just an estimate of what I've seen).
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I'd agree. A respectable time is hitting the target in 1.5 sec. from the draw. I practice with a timer from concealed carry and I use 1.5 sec. as a gage. If I don't practice regularly, I can't do it on demand. CCW draw is a little slower, but it doesn't make sense to practice any other way if you carry.

To get to one second (from the timer) would require plenty of hard work.

A total time of 1 sec. isn't hard to achieve as long as there's no reaction time involved.

I think it was Clint Smith who was asked by a student, "how long would I have in a real gunfight?" Clint said, "the rest of your life, son." Clint also said he never saw a timer in a gunfight.

The best competition shooters are in their own world. Under a second.

Slightly off topic but related:

I have a tape, I think from Stafford and Janeck, that shows a former hit-man draw from belt carry with gun hidden in front of pants, and fire in .3 sec. Point Three!

He was so smooth he didn't look fast. The former assassin who looked rather harmless (a little Asian guy), would walk up close in an unsuspecting manner, lift up his shirt with left hand, and simutaneously draw and shoot one handed with the right.


He carried a .45 auto with only one round, and liked to "hit" people who just sat down in their car. They never stood a chance or saw it coming. Then he'd ditch the gun.

Not a gunfighter, just an assassin.
 
I think you are talking about the sparrowhawks. Asian assassins.

I have the film. Saw it first at SouthNarc's class.

What they do, using a 1911, is carry it in their waistband with the butt below the beltline. The other hand is in the pocket holding the muzzle. The off hand holds the gun so it won't drop down and it allows the holding hand to push the butt of the gun above the waistline for drawing.

Very fast and very subtitle. But they can't hold the gun there all day. As an assassination technique it's pretty good, as a CCW it's very bad. Kind of hard not to be noticed with your off hand always in the pocket seemingly playing with, uh.. your roscoe so to speak.
 
Practice smooth, practice fast, but be sure the front sight is dead on the target when the gun comes up. So much depends on how you grip the gun from concealment as you draw it. You can worsen the time by as much as a second if you initiate the draw poorly and the front sight doesn't come into your sight line.Then you must compensate.

I personally think the initial grip on the gun is the most important mechanical thing in a draw from concealment you can sequentially screw up and affect the outcome of your shooting.

This is something you can practice, practice ,practice.Practice with dry fire again and again and then live fire with multiple 3 shot groupings. Then try it while moving! Gunfights these days will probably be multiple shot affairs with multiple BG's. This is a very complex group of skills to master, starting with an effective draw. It is not easy to master.
 
I know I'll catch flack for this, but... Trust me when I say it doesn't matter.
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No flack to you, but your statement is not fully accurate. What you should have said is that it often doesn't matter as there are times that it most definitely does matter.
 
There was an interesting study by the Force Science group in Mn. They filmed college students facing a camera, with a gun stuffed in the waistband and covered by a t-shirt. The study was to determine how fast an average college student (18-25) could pull a gun and fire on a police officer.

They also tested police officer's response times to visual cues to fire with their gun drawn and pointed at the target. Response times ranged from about .6 to .85 seconds (IIRC) with the average at .75 seconds. So for a visual cue it took an average of 3/4 second to see the move, process it as a threat, decide that shooting was appropriate and squeeze the trigger.

Now, the bad news? I think the draw times by the student test subjects¹ was... 3/4 of a second. Since you have to see the movement in the first place, you're at least 1/4 second behind the curve. I'll see if I can dig up a copy or a URL for that article.


¹ Note that these were college students with varying degrees of experience with firearms. None were highly trained for CCW.
 
BillCA,

I believe it. No doubt.

Like Bill Jordan said about that in his book, "No Second Place Winner". He wrote about getting fast with a gun and reaction time. He said if both gents are fast and strait shooters, then whom ever starts for the gun first will probably win. The reaction time will sink the other guy.
 
BDS32, If you are referring to my post I said "virtually irrelevant". As mentioned by several posters already there are several things that are more important than draw speed. Only in the most rare of occasion would a hyper fast draw speed assist one in winning an armed confrontation. First if draw speed is an issue you are probably behind in the reactionary curve. Friends who have been behind in the reactionary curve in FOF training almost always died and always got shot. My personal informal training with my coworkers suggests the same.

Basically you are left with hoping the bad guys attention is diverted or attempting a diversion. Then you still have an armed adversary to deal with. Just because you get off the first shot doesn't guarantee a hit or a stop before return fire gets you.

So from a logical stand point anything you can do to either avoid the trouble or be prepared in advance for said trouble is far more important than a few tenth of a second while starring down the barrel of a 45. IMO of course
 
They also tested police officer's response times to visual cues to fire with their gun drawn and pointed at the target. Response times ranged from about .6 to .85 seconds (IIRC) with the average at .75 seconds. So for a visual cue it took an average of 3/4 second to see the move, process it as a threat, decide that shooting was appropriate and squeeze the trigger.

Now, the bad news? I think the draw times by the student test subjects¹ was... 3/4 of a second. Since you have to see the movement in the first place, you're at least 1/4 second behind the curve. I'll see if I can dig up a copy or a URL for that article.
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I draw in under 1/2 second from a snapped holster (open carry) and can't beat my coworkers trigger fingers..............and they can't beat mine either.
 
I draw in under 1/2 second from a snapped holster (open carry) and can't beat my coworkers trigger fingers.
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Does your coworker already know you are going to draw and is waiting for it (i.e. he has already made the decision to fire and he is just waiting for the cue from you) or does he have to recognize what you are doing, decide what the appropriate response is and react?

For example, we did a drill where two students stood on the line and as soon as one student started to draw, the other student was to draw his pistol and fire at the targets downrange as well. This resulted in very close times and even occasional instances of the "waiting" student firing first.

However, when we did Force-on-Force with some of the same students, those lightning reaction times went way down because students were busy processing a lot of information and despite knowing they were going into a scenario where drawing and shooting was likely going to be necessary, they still needed critical time to process that information. Situational awareness also tended to be a lot bigger benefit than a fast draw time in those scenarios.
 
And that is the thing. At gun schools and FoF training, people have often already decided they are going to shoot or have made several of the relevant decisions that going into shooting before they shoot. Those also include the notion that they may be in an immediately lethal situation and need to perform accordingly. FoF training and gun schools usually don't dedicate too much time to not shooting, or maybe not enough. Add to that the fact that there isn't much of a penalty for being too quick on the trigger in training other than some verbal instruction.

So it is easy to be quicker in such training because there is a goodly amount of reality that is nullified including the notion of surprise, or even if surprised, people tend to expect it more.

In watching videos of civilians and officers in critical situations, sometimes the slowest part of the draw is the decision to draw and by that time the good guys are already under fire. In other words, they are behind the curve when they get a chance to start their physical draw and speed of the draw most definitely does matter. The amazing thing is how many (predominately officers) do it whilst doing other tasks, such as putting distance between themselves and their aggressors. So not only are they trying to draw and fire while under the start of attack or under actual fire, but they are trying to do so accurately while in startled retrograde or evasive motion.
 
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