what should my draw speed be?
- Thread starter Kyo
- Start date
If your CCW draw from concealment is 1 second or less I think you're very fast. I'd judge that many of the practiced folks draw in 1.25-1.35 seconds (just an estimate of what I've seen).
But don't get caught up in being Speedy Gonzales. Your mind should be ahead of circumstances to let you prepare for it. If you've practiced with differnt cover garments and can always get the gun into play quickly, that's all you really need.
But don't get caught up in being Speedy Gonzales. Your mind should be ahead of circumstances to let you prepare for it. If you've practiced with differnt cover garments and can always get the gun into play quickly, that's all you really need.
Your speed draw time should be exactly as fast as you can clear cover safely, bring the gun onto target, and hit the target accurately. That's it.
And no, I'm not making a joke here.
Hopefully you will be faster than your opponent (well, actually the real hope is that you'll never need to test this skill) but even if you aren't, misses don't count.
This goes against "common knowledge" but in real life many folks have been "2'nd fastest" and still won because they were more accurate. (Not that being first, and most accurate wouldn't be the desired goal).
And no, I'm not making a joke here.
Hopefully you will be faster than your opponent (well, actually the real hope is that you'll never need to test this skill) but even if you aren't, misses don't count.
This goes against "common knowledge" but in real life many folks have been "2'nd fastest" and still won because they were more accurate. (Not that being first, and most accurate wouldn't be the desired goal).
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Under 2 seconds with an A zone hit from concealment at 7 yards. Under 1.8 is better.
And yes, you have to be faster than your opponent and of course you don't know how fast that will be. But a well-practiced sub 2-second draw lets you use the 21-foot rule as a rule of thumb, and insisting on that accurate shot every time keeps your emphasis where it should be. You go as fast as you can while getting your hit. Don't neglect the "hit" part in your quest for speed.
As you're learning, it's far more important to be smooth than it is to be fast. You'll do yourself no favors at all if you regularly practice fumbling at great speed. Rather, practice making every movement as smoothly efficient as it can be, and only pull the timer out occasionally to check if you're on the right track. Racing the timer is great fun, but not a route to effective improvement unless you're practicing the right things.
pax
And yes, you have to be faster than your opponent and of course you don't know how fast that will be. But a well-practiced sub 2-second draw lets you use the 21-foot rule as a rule of thumb, and insisting on that accurate shot every time keeps your emphasis where it should be. You go as fast as you can while getting your hit. Don't neglect the "hit" part in your quest for speed.
As you're learning, it's far more important to be smooth than it is to be fast. You'll do yourself no favors at all if you regularly practice fumbling at great speed. Rather, practice making every movement as smoothly efficient as it can be, and only pull the timer out occasionally to check if you're on the right track. Racing the timer is great fun, but not a route to effective improvement unless you're practicing the right things.
pax
For me draw time is virtually irrelevant. If I have done my job and sniffed out the pending trouble well ahead of time and escape is not available, then I'll have plenty of time to draw. If I have failed to sniff out trouble no draw speed is likely to beat my assailants reflexes.
I would put way more emphasis on situational awareness and just being consistent and smooth with the draw.
Draw practice for me is more of a tool to ingrain the appropriate reaction I desire if hostilities arise and I revert back to my training on a subconscious level. To draw without thinking "draw now" in the face of a sudden threat.
I would put way more emphasis on situational awareness and just being consistent and smooth with the draw.
Draw practice for me is more of a tool to ingrain the appropriate reaction I desire if hostilities arise and I revert back to my training on a subconscious level. To draw without thinking "draw now" in the face of a sudden threat.
riggins_83
New member
One of the best drills to run for this, IMO, is to get snap caps and a stop watch. Have somebody with the stop watch say "go" when you're not facing them, draw, sight, and pull trigger. When they hear that trigger they may stop the stopwatch. It also gives you the chance to see if you're jerking the pistol, pushing down, pulling up, etc. I'll pick a target in the house, such as a picture frame, check 5 times to be sure there's a snap cap in the chamber and no live rounds in the mag and do this from different angles, etc, relatively often.
Housezealot
New member
+1
I give up a lot of draw speed at work just in the manner I carry, to me having my weapon completely concelead is a fair trade off over when I used to carry a larger pistol in a rig I could draw from quickly but couldn't conceal as easily.
I recently attended some training and the Shooting Skills test consisted of shooting from a concealed holster, all shots are as controlled pairs. In order to pass you had to met or beat the following times.: 3m - 1.8 secs., 5m - 2.0 secs., 7m - 2.1 secs. and 10m - 2.6 secs. Also, Failure to stop, Followed by Untimed Head shot, 7m - 2.1 secs. and Single Head shots, 5m - 1.9 secs.
Capt. Charlie
Moderator Emeritus
So very true. In fact, smooth can mean fast, or at least, faster.
A few years ago, I hit a plateau where I just couldn't seem to improve either accuracy or speed. Then I went through a FATS training session. The after action review showed that, during the draw, my weapon's muzzle was all over the place.
I began working with a laser, tracking the dot from the draw, along the ground, and up onto the target. Gradually, the laser's path went from a bunch of erratic squiggles to a straight path on target.
That squiggly path caused the muzzle to move over a much greater area... and use up more time. Refining my draw increased both my speed and accuracy significantly.
Concentrate on your draw technique, and forget speed for now. Speed will automatically come with time and practice.
SquidWarrior
New member
Slow is smooth, smooth is fast. Work on perfecting your form. Once you have it down, and its second nature, speed will come.
What other's have already said, adding a protest to the "draws do not matter arguments;" those presented and likely to come. The draw is a fundamental to the use of carried pistols as defensive pistols and should be as fluid and quick as a person can make it. Full stop. No "yea buts..."
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I'm another 'smooth is fast' adherent ...
Smooth, done consistently, can also help make for less 'fumble prone' performance when things are happening away from a controlled safe training environment. Fumbling, and reacting to fumbling, can probably create the potential for unintended and unanticipated events (think unintended discharge, loss of control regarding accuracy, etc).
Proper repetition, done consistently smoothly, can help lead to faster performance of the learned technique.
What's "FAST ENOUGH"?
Dunno. Couldn't begin to tell you.
One of the training classes I attended had some retired cops as instructors who measured the students against their idea of a reasonable relative 'yardstick' for speed.
It was a 'tactical undercover/plainclothes' type training class, meaning the weapons were expected to be concealed under normal working-type garments and drawn from under such garments, when actual working holsters were being used. No contest rigs.
The first day the students were checked for overall individual abilities by being timed during the performance of a drill which required that they draw from concealment (no hedging by prepositioning hands, clothing, etc), move offline at least one step, acquire a 2-handed shooting grip and fire 2 accurate rounds within a COM scoring zone on a 'standard' silhouette target.
More than a few cops grumbled that they were faster using just one hand and firing just one round. I don't doubt it. Drawing from actual real-world concealment while moving offline and acquiring a 2-handed hold, and demonstrating enough control with their shooting technique to fire 2 accurate shots, is probably a bit slower than using just 1 hand and firing 1 round from the hip. Probably a bit more difficult, all things considered.
It was an assessment, not a drill, though. Everyone was timed as a reference point.
At the end of the week the drill was once again given and times checked.
Nobody 'failed', but we were told that the instructors felt that a time of 1.5 seconds probably indicated an overall combination of working skills that would likely serve students well in the course of their duties, presuming they maintained those skills. This was just a test of various skills and abilities, conducted on a controlled range when the students were EXPECTING to draw, present & fire against a KNOWN & IDENTIFIED threat target, after all. Much of the Observe/Orient/Decide process had already been done, so to speak. (Yes, they still had to 'observe & orient' on the starting signal, but you get my meaning.)
There was some noticeable improvement throughout the class, with many now attaining this 1.5 second goal, and a few exceeding it. FWIW, although I easily exceeded the goal on the first day, I did consistently better (faster) at the end of the week. In other words, I learned some things which helped me and which I took back for continued development.
Some still demonstrated times in the 2-4 second range, though. Hey, it was only a 4-day class and there was an obvious (and expected) range of skill levels demonstrated among the attending cops, after all.
After I returned from that class and continued working with under the watchful eyes of the senior instructor I continued to emphasize proper technique and smooth execution without paying strict attention to the timer. I felt increased speed would come with increased smoothness.
There's no way to know what's ever going to be 'fast enough', especially when considering that reacting and drawing against a threat which has already presented itself puts most folks behind the curve from the start. Action vs. reaction can be problematic and require more than sheer technical skill solutions to resolve ... but a smooth, well-practiced & skilled technique is probably always going to be preferable to a fast, jerky, fumbling, jittery reaction done in response to an unexpected (and perhaps 'unbelievable') stimulus occurring in the real world. Just my thoughts, anyway, and I'm nobody's expert.
However, I can think back to instances where I didn't remember even thinking about drawing my weapon against a sudden threat, let alone think about it as it happened.
There's something to be said for repetitive SAFE training done properly and smoothly to develop technical skills ... which are still considered perishable, you know.
Smooth, done consistently, can also help make for less 'fumble prone' performance when things are happening away from a controlled safe training environment. Fumbling, and reacting to fumbling, can probably create the potential for unintended and unanticipated events (think unintended discharge, loss of control regarding accuracy, etc).
Proper repetition, done consistently smoothly, can help lead to faster performance of the learned technique.
What's "FAST ENOUGH"?
Dunno. Couldn't begin to tell you.
One of the training classes I attended had some retired cops as instructors who measured the students against their idea of a reasonable relative 'yardstick' for speed.
It was a 'tactical undercover/plainclothes' type training class, meaning the weapons were expected to be concealed under normal working-type garments and drawn from under such garments, when actual working holsters were being used. No contest rigs.
The first day the students were checked for overall individual abilities by being timed during the performance of a drill which required that they draw from concealment (no hedging by prepositioning hands, clothing, etc), move offline at least one step, acquire a 2-handed shooting grip and fire 2 accurate rounds within a COM scoring zone on a 'standard' silhouette target.
More than a few cops grumbled that they were faster using just one hand and firing just one round. I don't doubt it. Drawing from actual real-world concealment while moving offline and acquiring a 2-handed hold, and demonstrating enough control with their shooting technique to fire 2 accurate shots, is probably a bit slower than using just 1 hand and firing 1 round from the hip. Probably a bit more difficult, all things considered.
It was an assessment, not a drill, though. Everyone was timed as a reference point.
At the end of the week the drill was once again given and times checked.
Nobody 'failed', but we were told that the instructors felt that a time of 1.5 seconds probably indicated an overall combination of working skills that would likely serve students well in the course of their duties, presuming they maintained those skills. This was just a test of various skills and abilities, conducted on a controlled range when the students were EXPECTING to draw, present & fire against a KNOWN & IDENTIFIED threat target, after all. Much of the Observe/Orient/Decide process had already been done, so to speak. (Yes, they still had to 'observe & orient' on the starting signal, but you get my meaning.)
There was some noticeable improvement throughout the class, with many now attaining this 1.5 second goal, and a few exceeding it. FWIW, although I easily exceeded the goal on the first day, I did consistently better (faster) at the end of the week. In other words, I learned some things which helped me and which I took back for continued development.
Some still demonstrated times in the 2-4 second range, though. Hey, it was only a 4-day class and there was an obvious (and expected) range of skill levels demonstrated among the attending cops, after all.
After I returned from that class and continued working with under the watchful eyes of the senior instructor I continued to emphasize proper technique and smooth execution without paying strict attention to the timer. I felt increased speed would come with increased smoothness.
There's no way to know what's ever going to be 'fast enough', especially when considering that reacting and drawing against a threat which has already presented itself puts most folks behind the curve from the start. Action vs. reaction can be problematic and require more than sheer technical skill solutions to resolve ... but a smooth, well-practiced & skilled technique is probably always going to be preferable to a fast, jerky, fumbling, jittery reaction done in response to an unexpected (and perhaps 'unbelievable') stimulus occurring in the real world. Just my thoughts, anyway, and I'm nobody's expert.
However, I can think back to instances where I didn't remember even thinking about drawing my weapon against a sudden threat, let alone think about it as it happened.
There's something to be said for repetitive SAFE training done properly and smoothly to develop technical skills ... which are still considered perishable, you know.
Erik, I said draw time matters very little. The difference between 1.8 seconds and 2.3 seconds is virtually irrelevant. A smooth, consistent, draw, free of as much unnecessary movement as possible, is more important IMO. If the speed is there great.
I just feel that if we worried as much about situational awareness as we do over things like draw speed we would be far better off. Hard to draw with a gun in your face.......without getting shot.............I don't care how fast your draw.
I was watching the electronic timer at the Steel Challenge Nationals a few weeks ago. Drawing from exposed holsters and hitting the first target on "Smoke & Hope" (big, close target) took 1 to 1.3 seconds for the non-professional shooters. Some shooters were running 1.5 - 1.7 sec. The AMU and Team S&W shooters were much faster, but they have the best equipment, all the ammo they want and shoot every day. Plus, they were shooting Unlimited guns from race holsters.
Drawing from concealment and hitting a -0 at 20 ft on an IDPA target?
I'd say that "par" would be around 1.2 sec for an Expert class shooter.
Drawing from concealment and hitting a -0 at 20 ft on an IDPA target?
I'd say that "par" would be around 1.2 sec for an Expert class shooter.
Willie Lowman
New member
troy_mclure
New member
im right at 2 sec on my xd40sc from sob. thats draw point and fire, the following shots will be aimed. even if i dont hit with the first shot it will(hopefully) make them flinch, buying me another second or 2.