A Remington 870 12 gauge would be my choice. I have several and a couple of them would be excellent for bears. One is a Home Defense model with an extended magazine - it would be fine with Foster slugs. Another has a rifled barrel with a 1-4x scope on a cantilever mount - it shoots sabot slugs with superb accuracy. I took a running whitetail 10 pt. buck at about 125 yards with the rifled barrel 870. Iron sights might be better for bear defense, and I would prefer the rifled barrel.
What Shotgun for Bears?
- Thread starter bigamehunter
- Start date
Leftey,the reason I recommended against the Foster slug is I had occasion to need to kill a bear in Alaska. He had injured my wife and he was not leaving.
He was face on and upright. I put the bead on his nose and fired.Looking at bear skulls,the spongy sinuses lead right into he brain pan.I hit a few inches low and took out the lower incisors.The slug turned to flakes and did not penetrate.The bear was knocked down but was right back up.
The next slug hit spine in the neck and killed him.That slug turned to bits in the spine and stopped.Not over 8 in penetration and it stopped.
IMO,the dead soft slug just can't be trusted with bone.They are no doubt great on the average deer.This bear was 6 ft 6 in nose to tail.
For myself,if there is ever a next time,I will choose a harder slug.
He was face on and upright. I put the bead on his nose and fired.Looking at bear skulls,the spongy sinuses lead right into he brain pan.I hit a few inches low and took out the lower incisors.The slug turned to flakes and did not penetrate.The bear was knocked down but was right back up.
The next slug hit spine in the neck and killed him.That slug turned to bits in the spine and stopped.Not over 8 in penetration and it stopped.
IMO,the dead soft slug just can't be trusted with bone.They are no doubt great on the average deer.This bear was 6 ft 6 in nose to tail.
For myself,if there is ever a next time,I will choose a harder slug.
shootbrownelk
New member
T. O'Heir. I did mean MIM parts instead of the word "cast". You did get my meaning, right? I much prefer the quality of the STEEL parts in older Remington 870's compared to today's breakage prone MIM innards.JMO
"Not only for the safety location as buck460XVR mentioned, but the slide release as well."
The location of the slide release is what puts me off of the choice of Mossberg. On several occasions I saw my turkey hunting clients miss opportunities because they had inadvertently released the slide while holding the gun waiting for the right shot presentation.
Slide slightly retracted = NO BANG.
Facing an aggressive bear and getting a NO BANG = BIG PROBLEM.
Also noted one case of the plastic(?) safety thumb slide getting broken--another potential NO BANG = BIG PROBLEM
The location of the slide release is what puts me off of the choice of Mossberg. On several occasions I saw my turkey hunting clients miss opportunities because they had inadvertently released the slide while holding the gun waiting for the right shot presentation.
Slide slightly retracted = NO BANG.
Facing an aggressive bear and getting a NO BANG = BIG PROBLEM.
Also noted one case of the plastic(?) safety thumb slide getting broken--another potential NO BANG = BIG PROBLEM
22-rimfire
New member
With pump shotguns and black bears, I would choose the one that you are most comfortable with the safety location. For me, that would be the Remington 870 in 12 ga and a 18" rifled slug barrel.
bigamehunter
Inactive
Ok so am thinking I like the idea of an older wingmaster with 3" chamber if I can find one. Would the barrels and other accessories be interchangeable with the new ones?
bamaranger
New member
bear
Well, I wonder about your choice or a shotgun....., but I'm an 870 man and I'd look for an older Wingmaster, w/ slug barrel and appropriate sights.
Me, I wouldn't limit myself to a heavier, shorter ranged shoulder arm like a slug pump gun. I'd be inclined to lean towards something like a lever carbine, maybe an older Marlin in .35 Rem, but a Win 94 in .30-30 would be along the same lines. Light, flat, easy to carry about everywhere, and I could shoot it better than a handgun. Quick pointing, and theoretically, more reach than a 12ga slug.
But, no arguing with the punch of a 12 ga slug up close.
Well, I wonder about your choice or a shotgun....., but I'm an 870 man and I'd look for an older Wingmaster, w/ slug barrel and appropriate sights.
Me, I wouldn't limit myself to a heavier, shorter ranged shoulder arm like a slug pump gun. I'd be inclined to lean towards something like a lever carbine, maybe an older Marlin in .35 Rem, but a Win 94 in .30-30 would be along the same lines. Light, flat, easy to carry about everywhere, and I could shoot it better than a handgun. Quick pointing, and theoretically, more reach than a 12ga slug.
But, no arguing with the punch of a 12 ga slug up close.
I'm probably the only guy here that will say anything nice about buckshot, and even I would likely choose slugs.
That said, IF you choose buckshot, then choose a heavy payload moving fast. Why? Because higher pellet counts give a higher number of hits (if they pattern well in your gun), and speed is the only factor that improves penetration with .33 cal round balls. Further away it may break bones and will perforate (but NOT destroy) soft squishy parts, and it becomes quite slug-like at close range.
The choice is yours of course, but remember that each Buckshot round will have similar wound ballistics to a dozen rounds of randomly placed .22 WMR. Personally, I'd use slugs. Brenneke slugs if possible.
I will also jump on the 870 bandwagon. I've owned a few 870s, and a pile of Mossbergs, and while the 500s/550s/835s were easier to clear a jam from, it happened more often than with the Remington's.
That said, IF you choose buckshot, then choose a heavy payload moving fast. Why? Because higher pellet counts give a higher number of hits (if they pattern well in your gun), and speed is the only factor that improves penetration with .33 cal round balls. Further away it may break bones and will perforate (but NOT destroy) soft squishy parts, and it becomes quite slug-like at close range.
The choice is yours of course, but remember that each Buckshot round will have similar wound ballistics to a dozen rounds of randomly placed .22 WMR. Personally, I'd use slugs. Brenneke slugs if possible.
I will also jump on the 870 bandwagon. I've owned a few 870s, and a pile of Mossbergs, and while the 500s/550s/835s were easier to clear a jam from, it happened more often than with the Remington's.
reynolds357
New member
It does not exactly answer your question, but the SXP would be my hands down choice.
TheFriendlyMarksman
New member
A 12 gauge with a slug would get the job done, but in that case, why not just use a rifle? 30-06 or 450 Marlin should get the job done. I wouldn't be afraid to use my 270 either.
I would not be willing to bet my life, or that of a customer on a shotgun with a slug.
A 12 ga with a 1 ounce rifled slug will lose about 2/3 of it's 2400 ft-lbs of muzzle energy at 100 yards.
A 308 / 30-06 will lose ~ 20% of it's 2,800 ft-lbs of muzzle energy, and larger calibers lose less of their muzzle energy percentage wise. A .50 BMG only loses about 6% muzzle energy from the muzzle to 100 yards.
(I'm not advocating humping a .50 around, the point is larger calibers tend to lose less energy in the 0-5 yards you're more likely to have to defend yourself in, as a P O'd black bear can close 50 yards in about 3 seconds.)
Lot's of low cost rifles out there that should give you more security than a 12 ga.
A 12 ga with a 1 ounce rifled slug will lose about 2/3 of it's 2400 ft-lbs of muzzle energy at 100 yards.
A 308 / 30-06 will lose ~ 20% of it's 2,800 ft-lbs of muzzle energy, and larger calibers lose less of their muzzle energy percentage wise. A .50 BMG only loses about 6% muzzle energy from the muzzle to 100 yards.
(I'm not advocating humping a .50 around, the point is larger calibers tend to lose less energy in the 0-5 yards you're more likely to have to defend yourself in, as a P O'd black bear can close 50 yards in about 3 seconds.)
Lot's of low cost rifles out there that should give you more security than a 12 ga.
bigamehunter
Inactive
Thanks for all the responses guys, I really do appreciate it!
I am going to look for an older 870 wingmaster with 3" action and equip it with and 18" cylinder bore.
Thanks,
Mitch
I am going to look for an older 870 wingmaster with 3" action and equip it with and 18" cylinder bore.Thanks,
Mitch
bigamehunter
Inactive
For the record I've shot bears with multiple guns varying from a 223 varmint rifle (head shot) to 300wsm and at ranges anywhere from 10 yards to 250. The sole purpose of this gun/weapon choice is (should the much undesired situational need arise) to knock a bear on its a** at unavoidably close quarters. If we are hunting clear cuts I'll more than likely have my 270 or 300 along. But in the instants that a hit bear makes it to the reprod it will be nice to know that there is a good close quarters thumper in the truck.
reynolds357
New member
Why rule out the autoloading shotguns? The new breed of autoloaders are as reliable as pumps. I dare venture to say that they are probably more reliable(When you weed out the idiots that do not know the meaning of the word"cleaning"). In our use of shotguns in SWAT training and in tactical shotgun classes, I have seen far more "jams" (in their various forms) in pumps than I have seen in auto loaders. There are a pile of reliable autoloaders out there. The Mossberg 930 is probably the best one for the money. Those guns run and run and run and run in 3 gun competition. I have never seen one fail on the police range. They sure tame the recoil of the 3" slug.
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The Bennellis are sure nice semi-autos.
I have always been a fan of the Ithaca 37.But there is something I have noticed about them.
Shotgun shells aren't what they used to be.The rims.It seems like the materials and methods they use today produce smaller,less defined rims.They tend to have a little more inside radius..Anyway,they offer less for an extractor to grab.
I'm not saying YOUR Ithaca doesn't work. I'm saying extraction may be a little less reliable than it used to be.Maybe a fine tune of the extractor hooks will help.
But if you leave a hull in the chamber,remember you have no ejection port on an Ithaca.If the extractors slip off,you pull the slide back and another shell feeds. Tied Up!!. You have to pull the barrel to clear it.
I have always been a fan of the Ithaca 37.But there is something I have noticed about them.
Shotgun shells aren't what they used to be.The rims.It seems like the materials and methods they use today produce smaller,less defined rims.They tend to have a little more inside radius..Anyway,they offer less for an extractor to grab.
I'm not saying YOUR Ithaca doesn't work. I'm saying extraction may be a little less reliable than it used to be.Maybe a fine tune of the extractor hooks will help.
But if you leave a hull in the chamber,remember you have no ejection port on an Ithaca.If the extractors slip off,you pull the slide back and another shell feeds. Tied Up!!. You have to pull the barrel to clear it.
but reynolds how reliable are the semis when not fired from the shoulder?
In my youth full of piss and vinegar I tracked wounded bears (browns) with a rem1100 and slugs
It did the job fine
but I thank my lucky star today because later regular shotgun use it showed to be very finicky
what about a poor mans double rifle?
double barrel, double trigger can't get more reliable than that!
o/u or sbs with as short of a barrel as possible, even a small RMR type reddot, ejectors and extra slugs on the stock?
like all the "cool" african professional hunters use?
In my youth full of piss and vinegar I tracked wounded bears (browns) with a rem1100 and slugs
It did the job fine
but I thank my lucky star today because later regular shotgun use it showed to be very finicky
what about a poor mans double rifle?
double barrel, double trigger can't get more reliable than that!
o/u or sbs with as short of a barrel as possible, even a small RMR type reddot, ejectors and extra slugs on the stock?
like all the "cool" african professional hunters use?
reynolds357
New member
The gas guns are very reliable fired from the hip. We used FN's extensively for breaching doors. The inertia guns, I have no idea. I never have been a fan of the inertia guns so I could not tell you.