What rifle for hiking defense?

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Hueco

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Alright fellas, here's my situation. I am going to be regularly going into some backwoods for hikes and climbs. They aren't extremely out of the way, but they aren't in civilisation either. I have two concerns. First is bears. I have a .458 that could work very well for that and it will be coming along. Second is two-legged vermin. I've seen only one other guy out there besides me and my group, and he was armed with a handgun. Now, that means one of two things. Either he (and possibly others) are out there and are a problem. Or, he knows something I don't, and that is why he carries. So I want some personal protection from the bad-guys. The .458 is only a single shot. That's not too bad unless there's more than one guy after me and my group. My questions are should I not take any rifle for that purpose (humans) so as not to excite any attackers into active agression instead of just hassling us? Or would it be a good thing to have a special rifle for that purpose as a deterrant (something obviously capable of inflicting major harm to any attacker). The next question is -- what to get? It has to be small, fairly light, fast (semi-auto preferably), and powerful. The territory would dictate short shots -- all easily under 75 yards. I am currently eyeing an AK variant (SSR-99) anyway, so how would this work for my situation? I figure alright, since it is a battle rifle of sorts already. I mean, that's what it was designed for. Also, just any thoughts that you have on this, if you could pass them along. Thanks!

I should mention, I am 18 and not able to carry/own a handgun. And since I would be the guide, it would be my responsibility to protect the group from harm (bear or otherwise). So...it's gotta be a rifle.


Hueco
 
The Marlin lever action carbine in 45-70 would probably answer quite nicely. I don't think their is anything on God's green earth that they wouldn't handle if properly loaded. Besides that, it's a neat gun!
 
Yep.. I second that. Get a Marlin 1895SS. Ain't much a .45-70 won't stop in the range your talking about. Follow up shots will be just as fast as a semi. And then... if you really want to trick it out sent it to Jim West for his Co-Pilot modifications.



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Schmit
GySgt, USMC(Ret)
NRA Life, Lodge 1201-UOSSS
"Si vis Pacem Para Bellum"
 
It sounds like you've got the lion/tiger/bear angle covered with the .458, so your issue is dealing with a possible problem with bad folks. You've already seen one guy who was armed, so if he himself doesn't pose a threat, he's worried that someone may (as you already pointed out).

Have you considered a shotgun? A Remington 870 sounds like it would be ideal in this situation--especially if your opposition is armed with a handgun. The extra plus is that it's a lot easier to hit your target if the pucker factor gets anywhere above 6.

If you're set on a self-defense rifle, then something in the assault category would be handy. My personal choice would be a Bushmaster AR-15 with a 16" barrel. The shorter barrel is nice and compact for hauling around. An AK variant in either 7.62 or 5.45 would also be a good choice--and far less pricey. Both rifles also have the added deterrant value of being military arms. Are you sure your customers aren't going to be spooked by an assault rifle carrying guide?

The most important thing is that you be ready mentally for the situation you're concerned with. Carrying a rifle will do you no good if you're not ready to use it--and if you've prepared yourself correctly, chances are, you'll never have to.
 
Tango27, I am positive that they would not be turned off by my carrying a nasty looking all black very-non-PC rifle. The most I would get out of any of them would be a curious "oh." I made sure of the appropriateness before I even considered the *need* for a rifle. It wouldn't be of need if it would scare off the clients. Then who would I have to guide? And, then why would I need a rifle? :) Thank you for pointing that out to me though, I know I *don't* know it all. :D As far as the mental preparation, another good point. It is true that simply being armed isn't worth dirt if I am not ready to use it, and if I am not technically capable of using it. Both of those points will be addressed, and both of them will have the needs met before setting out.

A few of you have said 45-70. A good choice for me, true. Its powerful, light, and fast. The only problem I have is the mag capacity. I feel it is a little on the low side. A hangun can easily go 10 rounds, shotguns 5 or more. I want to be able to beat that score by a good margin. But that is the only bone I have to pick with the Guide Gun or SS.

Thanks for the recommendations guys, I always appreciate the help!


Hueco
 
You probably are not going to encounter platoon-sized groups of attackers on your pleasure hike. Your main concern should be for a weapon that can reliably stop an attacking bear or human. A .45-70 lever gun would be a fine choice. If capacity is an issue, learn to shoot better. Like I said before, you ain't gonna run into a platoon of raiders on your hike.

If you think that you can still miss fast enough to hit your target, try a Springfield M1A .308. It is a "civilian" version of the classic M14. It fires a hard hitting round and you can still find lots of 20 round pre-ban mags.

I would stay away from any .223 or 7.62x39 rifle if you want the weapon to serve as an anti bear/human gun. There is just not enough power behind these cartriges!
 
Hueco. I guess when you discuss bears, you mean the common black bear, rather than a grizzly of Kodiak bear. Right? If that's the case, let's look at a couple of lighter options. Marlin and Winchester make 30-30s which have always been adequate, if not the best thing for bear. But they also make rifles in .44 Magnum. Let's see, 75 yards or less; how about one of those loaded with Garrett's loads? Or you could load hard cast 300 gr. bullets. At the ranges you are considering, they'd work real good. Also, most of them hole around 10 in the magazine and one up the spout. Ther're lightweight, even lighter than the guide gun, and still are "politically correct, an oxymoron if I ever heard one.
I have a Winchester 94 in .45 Long Colt (I know it's an incorrect name) and that's what it holds, if I remember correctly. There are some very stiff handgun loads for thre .45 LC in (www.sixgunner.com) that have been worked up and pressure tested by John Linebaugh. I sure wouldn't worry too much about a black bear with those loads in my Winchester. It's pretty darn accurate too.
At least with 11 rounds, yuou'd be closer to being competative against a possible bad guy. Remember what the bad guy said in A FISTFULL OF DOLLARS? No man can stand up to a man with a rifle, if he only has a pistol in his hands. There is a lot of truth in that. Just my thoughts on the matter.
Those that disagree, flame away, I have my Nomex on.
Paul B.
 
If he's already taking his .458, then what he needs is a weapon specifically for human annoyances. That being the case, I'd NEVER bet my life that I'm only going to have to worry about a single attacker. Rural mountains would be ideal for banditos looking to rob a group of hikers, and they'd need more than one person to carry all the loot. It's best to be overly prepared.

PaulB--didn't the guy with the rifle end up dead? :)
 
The new rifle will be specifically for humans. The .458 is for "da' bears" (yes black). I just wanted to clear that up, it sort of sounds like a few of you think I will be taking a do-it-all rifle. That's just not the case. The bears aren't as much a threat really as a possible criminal. I don't care how stupid or "crazy" I look with two rifles shouldered. :D I am working on a "Quick release" system for my pack. Somethign at least to stabalise one of the rifles securely, but still have it right at hand. So, .458 for bears -- that's already set. The question is what to bring for the bad people. Thanks guys...again!


Hueco
 
I'd steer away from a rifle and go with a riot type shotgun equipped with ghost ring sights.

Train with it, learn to hit tin cans with slugs at 50 yards, fill it with your choice combination of slugs and #4 buck, and you're ready for bad guys anywhere. Bears too.

Then again, if you're worried about being PC and think there might be a problem walking around with a riot gun, try a Winchester 94 in 30-30. A very good rifle for quick action.

[This message has been edited by Bill Bryant (edited April 27, 2000).]
 
Hueco,

I'd have to side with those here that recommend a lever action. Personally, I like the Guide Gun in .45-70 for your situation. This caliber will work for humans or bears, so you would only need to hump one rifle in the bush. As suggested above, this gun is sufficient to settle any firefight you're likely to encounter. I know that No.1 of yours is new, but a big bore lever gun makes the Ruger superfluous.

Another plus to the .45-70 is that it shoots the same bullets as your .458 WM, a consideration if you decide to get into the reloading game.

As an aside, since I already own and load for a Guide Gun, I've recently been pondering the Ruger No. 1 in .458 just so I can shoot cast loads in it. Who knows, you and I may end up with the same combination of rifles before long. Good luck on your choice.
 
mabey a little underpwoer and light on mag capacity for what you want but for decent power lightweight maneverability ect plus not likley to scare your coustmers how about a win. 94 trapper in say 44 mag
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tango27:

Have you considered a shotgun? A Remington 870 sounds like it would be ideal in this situation--especially if your opposition is armed with a handgun. The extra plus is that it's a lot easier to hit your target if the pucker factor gets anywhere above 6.

If you're set on a self-defense rifle, then something in the assault category would be handy. My personal choice would be a Bushmaster AR-15 with a 16" barrel. The shorter barrel is nice and compact for hauling around. An AK variant in either 7.62 or 5.45 would also be a good choice--and far less pricey. Both rifles also have the added deterrant value of being military arms. [/quote]

Another "military" alternative would be the SKS Paratrooper (16" barrel). They hold 12 rounds of 7.62x39 and don't look as aggressive as an AR or AK (which may attract unwanted attention). The spring steel clips (for reloading) fit well into a coat pocket. With a bit of practice, you can reload these rifles very fast. They're also cheaper then the AR's or AK style rifles.
 
Lever action .44 mag. It's a little light for bear, but it'll suffice, especially with good placement. It's available in several light, handy models from Winchester and Marlin and even Ruger. The Winchester and Marlin rifles have good mag capacity to boot. And it's about as PC as any gun can be these days.
 
My view on the subject is this....If I were a bad guy one look down the bore of that cannon would give me second thoughts. As for multiple attackers...think they'll draw straws or flip a coin to see which one of em gets to play hero and get disemboweled for his efforts? My guess is they'll look for easier prey. Just carry a map to Rosie's house with ya.

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"Is it getting bad out there?" "Out where?" The Trigger Effect
 
First choice: 12 gauge pump
Second choice: Short (Trapper) lever gun in 30-30, .44 mag or .45 Colt.

Leave the .458 at home.

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TFL's official "Curmudgeon Member" and damned proud of it!
 
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