what rifle did the north koreans use?

Skorzeny

You seems more knowledgable about korean war than ordinary Joe, so it would be welcome,
but, I have enough first hand experience to talk about it too,

yes, you are partially correct about strength of chinese army during korean civil war,
but I have had enough first account battle report from ROK soldiers encountering chinese forces(most of them never been translated to english) about their poor equipment, also first hand account memoir(also not translated) from persons who were NK soldiers, officers and korean chinese soldiers(in northern china, there is several millions of koreans living since 19th century, and they were pierce anti-japanese fighters during WWII, some of them came to north korea(most famous is Gen. Kim in north korea), some of them remained in china after WWII, and they volunteered to help their brothers), they ALL have big complain about soviet's allegedly help,

Want to talk about south korean army's civillian killing? what kind of first hand account do you have? filtered info by KCIA mostly?
Jeju islands will be prime example, they killed almost 1/4 of total population of there during 1947-1949, and many people refugeed to japan illegallly, and became loyal north korean supporting korean japanese(in japan if you were korean, means you were japanese during WWI and WWII, you could acquire japanese citizenship at that time, not sure how it works now),
Also, I was a little shocked when I first found first hand account that many people actually refugeed to NK army's occupied territory from allegedly democratic US supporting south korean army,
 
johnAK:

I lived in Asia for over 10 years. I've read plenty about first hand and second hand works on the Korean War in various languages.

First hand knowledge? I have been touch with veterans associations in ROK (but I do that with several countries in Asia, Europe and the Middle East, not to mention the US). I've met and talked in depth to numerous wartime ROK officers and men, including General Paik Sun Yup (then the commander of ROK 1st Division and later ROK Joint Chief of of Staff).

"Gen Kim" being a "fierce" anti-Japanese fighter? Where do you get your info, Nodong Shimmun (the official North Korean newspaper - for those of you looking for outrageous hilarity - try it)? Kim Il-Sung's "resistance" history is a COMPLETE fabrication. He was being trained in Moscow as a Soviet agent during WWII. Whe he first showed up in Soviet occupied Korea, he received puzzled derision from actual anti-Japanese partisans UNTIL of course his Soviet bodyguards took care of any "improper" reception by real veterans.

Well, I guess the North Koreans manufactured 200 T-34 tanks, hundreds of lorries and Yak fighters out of their frigid rice paddies, then? And who exactly operated those tanks? North Korean peasants out of the same grimy, dung-ridden rice paddies with no training on how to operate and maintain armored vehicles?

Recently opened ex-Soviet archives document the extent to which Stalin and Mao aided Kim Il-Sung and the North Koreans. Kim was actually able to convince Stalin and Mao that ROK would be conquered quickly and that the US would NOT intervene.

Skorzeny
 
The United States actually very likely contributed to North Korea's beliefs that the United States would not intervene in a general Korean war.

Up until the time of the outbreak of the war, the US position on Korea was surprisingly mute, virtually ignoring the situation in Korea.

Policy speeches on the containment of Communism around the work were also surprisingly mute where Korea was concerned.

This led North Korean and Chinese analysts to conclude that Korea would, were the North to attempt unification, simply be abandoned, and the US would evacuate the limited number of American troops that were in the country.
 
>>Kim was actually able to convince Stalin and Mao that ROK would be conquered quickly and that the US would NOT intervene.

you are right about one BIG point here, IF US didn't intervened, korean civil war would have ended within 3 months and would have saved millions of human lives.(Does anyone see similarity between this and vietnam and current Balcan situation?) Why 3 months? before McArther did Inchon landing, NK was occupying almost all of south korea already, and most of south korean population was hating south korean dictatorship,

>>Well, I guess the North Koreans manufactured 200 T-34 tanks, hundreds of lorries and Yak fighters out of their frigid rice paddies, then? And who exactly operated those tanks? North Korean peasants out of the same grimy, dung-ridden rice paddies with no training on how to operate and maintain armored vehicles?

same point for ammo and heavy weapons south korean army was using for killing civillian population, where did they get it? Was US ordered that? then why do you think Stalin ordered "War"?

>>as a Soviet agent during WWII

so what??? soviet agent to help japanese? or soviet agent to fight japanese? "was he really soviet agent?" is moot question here, "Is japanese army's 2nd leautenant dictator is any better?"
You don't think all "Free France coalition" by De Gaull(sp?) as british MI6 agent, do you?
 
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Mike Irwin: It's fairly well codified that the North Koreans had been stockpiling weaponry during the late 1940s in preparation for heading south.

In early-ish 1950, Then SecState Dean Acheson gave a major policy speech about our intentions vis-a-vis Asia in general. There was one small "throwaway" line which indicated a general lack of U.S. interest in the Korean Peninsula.

A couple or three months later, the North Koreans headed south.

(I was two days out of Yokohama, headed for San Francisco on a passenger freighter. The Russians were jamming most of the frequencies on which we could get news. No news was regarded as bad news. :( Four years later, I was there on occupation duty.)

Tell ya what, folks: For a nickel, anybody who wants it can have my share of Frozen Chosen. Honey wagons in the summer; 20 degrees below zero in the winter. Yuck!

:), Art
 
talk about that damn snow melted mud, and marching in heavy snow with that damn LBG and gas mask and M16A2 and whatever, fortunately I wasn't carrying M60 even thou I was company M60 gunner :D (you litterly can't see 10 yards away from ya)
YUCK!!!
 
Is it an Urban Legend that the M1 Carbines were so ineffective in Korea because the NK wore such heavy clothing in the winter ? Guys use to get knocked down and get back up.
 
Art,

Of course the North Koreans had been stockpiling weapons and training troops -- virtually since the partition you don't attack in that kind of force with a few weeks preparation.

What Kim needed, though, was buy-off from both China and the Soviet Union to actually engage in the war.

Neither nation was particularly enthused about allowing North Korea to start the war, until it became increasingly clear that South Korea wasn't really on US political radar.

I seem to recall that Acheson later expressed regret that the United States ignored the Korean peninsula politically because the inaction may have helped lead to the deaths of so many people.

Interestingly enough, it seems pretty clear that the spectre of US disinterest in Korea was remembered and turned 180 degrees to the hyper interest that the United States showed in Vietnam.

My uncle was with an Army unit not too far from Choisin Reservoir when that situation went south.
 
Soda,

I've heard that no only about the .30 Carbine, but also about the .45.

Chinese troops, in particular, had those heavy quilted uniforms. With a heavy winter overcoat they were supposedly pretty effective soft body armor.

I've also heard similar stories about both guns during winter campaigning in Europe.
 
Mike Irwin:

You are absolutely correct. Before the Dean Acheson speech, both Stalin and Mao were uncertain about repercussions of a possible invasion of ROK by DPRK.

When Acheson excluded ROK from US "defense perimeter" in Asia, it was a pretty "clear" signal to Stalin and Mao. They, of course, badly misjudged President Truman's reaction to the invasion.

BTW, in the early days of the invasion, all US advisors were ordered to evacuate. Several of them reportedly cried when told to leave (read "abandon") their Korean units. With the UN mandate established, that situation changed quickly, of course.

johnAK:

You've got to stop reading Neo-Marxist revisionist history of the Korean War. Many of the statements you've made have been discounted by most established historians and, what is more, disproven by opened Soviet archives.

>>you are right about one BIG point here, IF US didn't intervened, korean civil war would have ended within 3 months and would have saved millions of human lives.(Does anyone see similarity between this and vietnam and current Balcan situation?)<<

Theoretically and absurdly, that could be true. That argument is akin to suggesting that US should have NOT intervened in WWII in order to "save countless millions" that died from fire bombings, the two atomic attacks and general warfare in Europe and Asia.

Of course, those same millions and more (roughly 43 million) in Korea would be living under abject poverty and weird successionist, Stalinist totalitarianism. ROK is a pretty viable and functioning democracy today. I don't think that the blood of UN veterans (mostly Americans and ROK, but also Aussies, Brits, Turks and others) were wasted. Certainly Koreans who remember are very grateful.


>>Why 3 months? before McArther did Inchon landing, NK was occupying almost all of south korea already, and most of south korean population was hating south korean dictatorship,>>

Ah, you got your history mixed up again. Syng Man Rhee eventually became a dictator (and was forced to resign due to mass student protests), but in 1948, he was legitimately elected under a UN-supervised election. The Soviet sponsored election in DPRK was, uh, less than transparent, shall we say. Certainly the election in ROK wasn't fully competitive by today's standards, but it was much more so than in DPRK.

>>same point for ammo and heavy weapons south korean army was using for killing civillian population, where did they get it? Was US ordered that? then why do you think Stalin ordered "War"?<<

You keep inverting things. It is the NKPA that massacred tens of thousands of ROK civilians (particularly doctors, lawyers, landlords, merchants, teachers and professionals) during their occupation of much of ROK. Prior to the war, ROK Army had very little heavy weapons. No armor, no combat aircraft, no heavy artillery, no anti-tank weapon. In fact, the US was leery of supplying ROK Army with anything considered "offensive" weapons. Unlike the ROK, NKPA received hundreds of tanks, lorries and attack aircraft as well as medium and heavy artillery. Their personnel received fairly thorough training as well.

>>so what??? soviet agent to help japanese? or soviet agent to fight japanese? "was he really soviet agent?" is moot question here, "Is japanese army's 2nd leautenant dictator is any better?"<<

I never said better or not. I simply stated that Kim's so-called anti-Japanese partisan legend was completely fabricated. He was BEING trained as a Soviet agent when WWII ended. The Soviets promptly dressed him up as a "legendary anti-Japanese fighter" and sent him off to their portion of occupied Korea. His real name wasn't even Kim Il-Sung.

Nonetheless, if you must compare, General (and later President) Park Chung-Hee never fabricated his own history nor was he a stooge of Soviet totalitarians. Certainly Park was a dictator. But he (like Lee Kuan Yew of Singapore) never personally enriched himself. He was "power-mad," rather than corrupt. He did initiate the industrialization of ROK, which has led to its present prosperity.

In any case, let us judge the end result. Would you rather live in DPRK or ROK? Funny how thousands of defectors try to flee DPRK to ROK (or even to China and Russia). You don't see a whole lot of ROK folks eager to cross into DPRK (exept as tourists).

>>You don't think all "Free France coalition" by De Gaull(sp?) as british MI6 agent, do you?<<

Whhaaa? I have no idea what you mean by this. What's De Gaule's Free French movement or MI6 have anything to do with DPRK/ROK issues?

Skorzeny
 
Skorzeny:

Probably I have a little bit of experience myself how barbaric south korean army are than you,

>>Of course, those same millions and more (roughly 43 million) in Korea would be living under abject poverty and weird successionist, Stalinist totalitarianism.

yes. it could be true, but that same statement was applied to all eastern europe and vietnam since 1945, look what happend to eastern Europe and vietnam and china now, Are they still Stalinist totalitarian regime(maybe still a little, but certainly better than 10 years ago)? look at the both korea now, are they better than before? NO, why??? because "split half" situation effectively blocked any chance of reform or revolution, it is same situation in both korea, if someone in south korea try to reform, he will be arrested for being a spy of north, in north, same situation,
Even in american civil war, even if it cost lots of life, Lincoln's decision was right, "unification is much better than split nation", I couldn't even imagine what would have happened if Lincoln didn't decide to go war,(probably WWI and WWII would have extended to american continent)

>>would be living under abject poverty

you are confused between causes and end-result here, north korea's poverty is caused by agricultural failure, not by the stupid government head(or dictaor like south korea), and biggest reason for agricultural failure is lack of fertilizer(maybe you can remember that in korea they are growing rice in the SAME land already last 5000 years, not like only 200 years of agriculture history in US),(that's why they request fertilizer at the FIRST item in the negotiation whenever america try to stop nuclear power plant to solve electric and heating energy shortage) why they have fertilizer and electric shortage? because of the US and south korea's barbaric Embargo of everything, specially OIL and equipment(unfortunately fertilizer factory and ammo factory is essentially same, remember how Timothy made TNT out of fertilizer to blow up federal building? so every thing related to fertilizer factory is classified to military something thus subject of very harsh embargo), also, thanks to ahrsh embargo, NK cannot exort things, thus NK does not have cash to buy anyway,

>> ROK is a pretty viable and functioning democracy today.

you might better stop reading "seoul shinmun" edited by KCIA,

>> I don't think that the blood of UN veterans (mostly Americans and ROK, but also Aussies, Brits, Turks and others) were wasted. Certainly Koreans who remember are very grateful.

It all depends on who you are talking to, beneficiary of dictatorship or victims,(certainly Hitler did same thing as so called Gen. park, Hitler saved german out of poverty caused by Great Depression, certainly you might remember that living standard of german was highest of the whole Europe at 1939, and german riches and workers were thankful, that's why they supported Hitler)

>>Ah, you got your history mixed up again. Syng Man Rhee eventually became a dictator (and was forced to resign due to mass student protests), but in 1948, he was legitimately elected under a UN-supervised election. The Soviet sponsored election in DPRK was, uh, less than transparent, shall we say.

"Ah, you got your history mixed up again." thanks to KCIA historians, huh?
at the time of 1948 south korea's election one of the two biggest south korean political party was boycotting election, thus they didn't made candidates, and 2nd election was held on 1950 MAY, and that political party which was boycotting 1st election got landslide winning election(can you imagine how much population was hating Lee's government?) AND important point here is at that time south korea's constitution says President and Government cabinet was elected by congress vote just like British system, and after 1950 JUNE(anyone remember what happened JUNE?) so called president Lee's first thing he did was "change constitution to presidential election by popular vote NOT congress vote (since LEE was minority)" with opposition party congressman was either house arrest or abbducted in the bus going to congress AT THE GUNPOINT, thanks to martial law he declared,(of course that M1 rifle south korean army was pointing to congressman was supplied by US).
(anybody smells fish here about war and election timing???)
Absolutely Certainly, IF THERE WERE NOT A WAR, so called president Lee would have been arrested after 1950 election loss with people's disgust, in the charge of corrupt, genocide, and everything,

>>but in 1948, he was legitimately elected under a UN-supervised election.

so WOULD you say legitimately elected president ALGORE in 2000, IF president Clinton used federal troops in FL and recouted vote in FL, and declared winner ALGORE with Republican senator and congressman at the gunpoint??? I REALLY want to hear it, so please!!!
He WAS NOT elected legitemately and until 1990's or something south korea NEVER HAS HAD legitemate election(even thou you could still argue about that election),

>> Certainly the election in ROK wasn't fully competitive by today's standards, but it was much more so than in DPRK.

well, do you know Taiwan government's position for last half century? they maitained whold china's congress over 50 years, based on that they claimed they are the ONLY one legitemate in whole china,(since mainland china only has congressman from mainland, taiwan has congressman from mainland AND taiwan islands), so do you agree with Taiwan about this point?
NK maintained same position,(since SK had only congressman from south korea AND NK had congressman from south korea and north korea at the time of election 1948), of course in south korea, under the terror of police and paramilitary group, election was under the ground(so that was the point maintained by KCIA historians), but still election was invited to everyone except known para-military suppoters(that was point maintained by north korea)

SEE??? how korea's history is wholly makaroni messed up??? :mad:

>>You keep inverting things. It is the NKPA that massacred tens of thousands of ROK civilians (particularly doctors, lawyers, landlords, merchants, teachers and professionals) during their occupation of much of ROK.

"You keep inverting things." NO!!!,,
yes, you were partially correct, there was certainly civillian killing by NK side, but mostly it was revenge by victims of civillian killings in 1945-1950 by south korean police and paramilitary, and north korean government and army was trying hard to prevent that,(BTW, civillian killing or rape or whatever to civillian, NK soldier was shot on the spot, same harsh rule as Mao's during chinese civil war) AND after McArther's Inchon landing, it WAS revenge time whole over again much more bigger scale, south korean government and south korean army's offcicial policy was, "anyone who didn't refugee to south Pusan parameter IS communist or communist collaborator", and thanks to Han river bridge blow up,(you mentioned) most of seoul residents stayed put,also south of seoul was same situation, south korean army's retreat was so fast, refugee couldn't keep up,(also, any refugee crossing line was shot by US GI and south korean army anyway, Ever heard recent news story?)
Heck, think about yourself as poor south korean at that time, before Inchon landing north korean was certainly look like winner, and they are the one with weapon, and they ASKED(ask or order, arguing point) you to help to fix US bombing things, and WALLA, you did, and after Inchon landing south korean army came over, want to kill ya since you are suspect communist,(you helped NK, didn't ya?) millions of people went to prizon or prizoner of war camp or what ever, hundreds of thousands were murdered by south korean army or paramilitary, of course, if he were hard line communist, he followed NK's retreat,
(anyone see simillarity with current Balcan?)

>>In fact, the US was leery of supplying ROK Army with anything considered "offensive" weapons.

because US KNEW, if they did, south korea would make war themself first, from the start 1948 both south and north made clear they will do unification, by force if necessary,

>>Unlike the ROK, NKPA received hundreds of tanks, lorries and attack aircraft as well as medium and heavy artillery. Their personnel received fairly thorough training as well.

most of them was japanese weopon stashed in north korea and north china(during WWII japanese's policy was "make south korea as base of rice, make north korea and north china as industrial and weapon base, that's how north korea and china got most of factory and weapon and ammo, and almost NO factory for south korea)

>>Nonetheless, if you must compare, General (and later President) Park Chung-Hee never fabricated his own history nor was he a stooge of Soviet totalitarians. Certainly Park was a dictator. But he (like Lee Kuan Yew of Singapore) never personally enriched himself. He was "power-mad," rather than corrupt. He did initiate the industrialization of ROK, which has led to its present prosperity.

so called president dictator Park's secret swiss bank account was well known secret, also, you cannot maintain dictatorship without illegal money(as carrot to supporters), again, same point as Hitler, He brought prosperity to war-torn & Great Dpression-torn German,
 
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>>In any case, let us judge the end result. Would you rather live in DPRK or ROK?

Would you want to live under Hitler or under Stalin??? very moot question well used by KCIA and dictator to population,(BTW, that was the question NAZI was using from the start to the end)

>>Funny how thousands of defectors try to flee DPRK to ROK (or even to China and Russia).

Historically, from 1945 to present, more south residents defected to north than north residents to south(for north defectors, it's constant survailence and living undeer terror anyway, Ever heard of fabricated spy ring case during 1970's by KCIA?,and I got this information from former KCIA who living in US now)

>> You don't see a whole lot of ROK folks eager to cross into DPRK (exept as tourists).

because, anyone show up near border south side will be SHOT TO KILL, same as like berlin wall east german side,
Tourists??? you mean south korean resident tour north??? where did you get that idea? if someone goes to north for whatever reason, he will go to jail at least 10 years(I don't remember now what was minimum sentence) and tortured to the death, in the charge of treason or being communist or got the order from them to kill our beloved(!) president,

How funny to watch german court case to east german border guard in the charge of shooting civillian simply because civillian was approaching berlin wall or border, HECK, that's what's happening in the south korea side border since 1945 until this day)

>>Whhaaa? I have no idea what you mean by this. What's De Gaule's Free French movement or MI6 have anything to do with DPRK/ROK issues?

because during WWII, France has legitemate goverment (ever heard of Vichy's??) and by the nazi's side De Gaule was simply MI6 agent collaborating Britain and get trained by US and Britain,

any agent or whatever, got trained or not, if he was fighting against NAZI and/or Jap, he's freedom fighter, just like De Gaule,

how funny, if west germany or austria or czech or france or any former german occupied nation has new dictotor(former german SS 2nd lieutenant), what do you think about it?
 
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John

You need to stop reading that communist propaganda. And also do some fact checking on a few of the things that you post

Diesel and fertilizer is ANFO, not TriNitroToluene.

Just about everything that goes to N. Korea goes into arms production and the military. Although the lacked fertilizer they seemed to be able to still make and export explosives. Although there was famine in the country, guess were almost all the foreign aid went? It went into the militaries war reserves.

When the North pushed South, thousands of Koreans fled. When the PLA sweep down out of China, hundreds of thousand of Koreans fled south, something like 100,000 plus alone were evacuated by the Amphibious Task Force at the withdrawal at Hung Nam.

The reason many see Asian armies as being barbaric is that, the Asians' generally don't have the same view of human rights as Western Europeans. Additionally they don't believe in political correctness. They understand the stupidity doesn't work when people lives are on the line.
 
johnAK's post contains so much confused and incorrect information that it would take hours to refute.

I'll take a couple of points that can be refuted quickly...

>>Tourists??? you mean south korean resident tour north??? where did you get that idea?<<

Where did I get that idea? From the fact that an ROK corporation with the blessing of the ROK government has established tourist ferry trips to Kumkang Mountain (reputedly the most beautiful place in all of Korea) in the North. The ferry and escorted tours have been running for several years now. You need to read the newspapers once in a while.

Talking about newspapers, there is no such thing as "KCIA edited Seoul Shinmun." The major newspapers in ROK are: Choson Ilbo, Hankuk Ilbo and Dong-Ah Ilbo. "Ilbo" means "Daily" in Korean. Nodong Shinmun, which I mentioned previously, is the official newspapers of the North Korean People's Workers Party.

>>yes, you were partially correct, there was certainly civillian killing by NK side, but mostly it was revenge by victims of civillian killings in 1945-1950 by south korean police <<

Actually not only did the NKPA kille ROK civilians, but it also rounded up and killed local communists in ROK! During the war, there was a HUGE purge of southern (meaning non-Soviet) communists by the NKPA, the reason being that several prominent southern communists were rivals to Kim Il-Sung. The North Vietnamese did similar things when they finally occupied Saigon. They purged what remained of the Viet Cong (made up of southern Vietnamese communists) after Tet '68.

>>most of them was japanese weopon stashed in north korea and north china<<

So, you are saying that T-34s and Yak-9 were made by the Japanese? You better consult your history books. The NKPA 105th Armor Brigade, which overran the two western most ROK divisions and opened the way to Seoul in June 1950 was made up of about 150 T-34 tanks supplied by Soviet Union. The NKPA air force was made up of Yak-9 fighters. The motorized troops were armed with the PPsh. The heavy artillery was all Soviet-made. The ordinary infantry was armed mostly with Mosin-Nagant. Not quite "Japanese" weapons, are they?

As I mentioned in a previous post, the beneficiary of the Japanese Kwantung Army stockpile was the Chinese PLA, not the NKPA. The Soviets captured that stockpile and handed it over to the Chinese.

Despite touting personal knowledge, johnAK seems to be either very confused or highly brainwashed. He should really read some basic history books (as for the "KCIA" that seems to be his big bad boogey man - it is now actually called the National Security Planning Board).

I can go on, but I think that it would be like trying to teach a pig how to sing. I'll never get it to sing and it will simply annoy the pig.

Skorzeny
 
Skorzeny:

well, we both agree to disagree,
current south and north korea's situation is basic political question as old as at least 100 years,
"which is more bad? left side dictator? or right side dictator?" "Hitler or Stalin"
just like your question, "Do you want to live under Stalin or Hitler?"
and it almost automatically transfers to next question,"so if one side is more bad, who am I support?"
--"Hitler is more bad, so let's support Stalin to get rid of Hitler"
--"Stalin is more bad, so let's support Hitler to get rid of Stalin"

and I guess you already made mind to support "Hitler" since you regards NK more bad than ultra right-side south korean military dictatorship.
 
I'll weigh in briefly about the comparative food availability in the two Koreas. The average size of a South Korean is now larger than in the 1940s/1950s, and is larger, also than in North Korea. This was noted during the Vietnam era. It comes from a better diet than was available during the Japanese period of control.

Why does not North Korea have an equal amount of decent food? They trade with China and Russia; there is no reason for fertilizer not to be available--if they can't produce their own...

(The Philippines have a far more benign climate, from an agricultural standpoint. Yet, the Philippines traditionally harvest but one rice crop a year. In many parts of South Korea, there are two harvests--and it has been thus since WW II ended. Sociologists believe it is inherent in the work ethic of the cultures.)

The two Koreas have pretty much the same terrain and the same resource bases. There is no reason other than political for the disparity in health, size, diet, ad infinitum ad nauseum. This can pretty much be said for most of the "Third World".

Just some points to ponder...

:), Art
 
johnAK:

We are not disagreeing about opinions. You simply have some facts wrong! Apparently, you didn't even know that South Koreans have been visiting North Korea as tourists for the past several years. Have you ever heard of the "Sunshine" Policy? My guess is not.

Uh, BTW, excuse me, but are you equating the current government of ROK with the Nazi regime?

The current president of ROK, Kim Dae Jung, won the Nobel Peace Prize recently. He is not a particularly able president, but he was a democracy fighter against the military dictatorships of the 60s and 70s.

The two past presidents (Chun Doo Hwan and Ro Tae Woo, both military officers) were tried for treason and convicted for leading a military coup back in 1980. The party that ran ROK during the 1980s is now one of several OPPOSITION parties.

If you ever watch Korean TV (I do - along with British, French, German and Japanese TV programs), there are almost brawl-like debates in the National Assembly (as the ROK legislative body is called - NOT "congress" as you called it).

Does that sound like a Nazi regime to you? If so, you need to study about what the Nazi regime was really like.

In DPRK (North Korea), the same Korean Workers Party (the Soviet communists) is still in power. The son of Kim Il-Sung still retains iron control. There is state-sponsored worshipping of both Kim and his son. There are estimated 500,000 people (out of 20 million) in the gulags. For gosh sakes, even Neo-Marxists are embarassed by North Korea and do NOT call it a "communist" state (there isn't supposed to be a dynastic succession in a communist state).

I won't even go into the economic disparities. Okay, maybe I should. ROK GDP/capita is over $10,000 (based on PPP). ROK is one the 10 largest industrial/trading powers in the world. ROK boasts the highest rate of broadband internet use in the world. DPRK, on the other hand, has a GDP/capita of $500 to $2,000 (estimates vary). Most of its people are starving. Most of North Koreans do not know what a computer is, let alone the Internet.

The two are NOT like Hitler's vs. Stalin's regimes. The difference is more like a 21st century industrialized information economy vs. a medieval, successionist totalitarian regime.

BTW, I am simply ASTONISHED that someone in 2001 can believe the kind of antiquated communist propaganda that johnAK believes in. What he believes about the two Koreas is akin to believing that the Soviet Union has the true democracy and economic success while the "Imperialist" United States oppresses its people and enriches the "Fascist" capitalists!

Skorzeny
 
Skorzeny, I have been amazed for decades that folks will give credence to any political commentary from countries where one has to stand in line for toilet paper, or there are no bandages.

"People's Republic Of XXX" is merely a euphimism for "State of Slavery, Degradation and Poverty".

Regardless of their weaponry. :)

Art
 
johnAK:

Are you for real?
Have you been to Korea (North or South) lately?

I don't know where you get your info from but go somewhere else. Somebody is feeding you a lot of $hit.
 
I suggest that if we've pretty much exhausted the actual topic of discussion, any more worries about political stuff should go to a new thread in L&P, okay?

We've gone too far OT; me, too. No mas.

:), Art
 
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