what revolver did police use to carry?
- Thread starter revolverrandy
- Start date
Expanding a little on Mr. Johnson's post & Mr. Wright's post here.
The competition between Colt and S&W for police holsters was, at times, very heated.
What the cops carried in a city often influenced what brand the citizens purchased for their own protection.
In the 1950s NYPD had a lot of Colt revolvers, either the Official Police model or the Police Positive Special
which was slightly smaller. A family member lived near NYC then and said S&W started making inroads to the
NY department in the early 1950s.
Colt Police Positive Special - 4th Issue (1974)
Colts were certainly popular in the Northeastern U.S. in cities like NYC, Boston, Hartford, Philadelphia, et al.
They were also popular in Chicago, Detroit and Cincinnati as I recall. In the south, Colts were popular although
starting around 1955 the S&W line could your need for less money than a Colt. Texas, where we lived, had a
mixture (as did a lot of the country) but the first police revolver I saw (around age six) was a Smith & Wesson.
The typical and iconic police revolvers were the Official Police and the Model 10. Not surprising as these
"basic model" guns were the most affordable for both agencies and individual officers alike.
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S&W Model 10-6, 5-inch barrel, circa 1970
Officers wanting something better could, and often did, upgrade their revolvers by purchasing a revolver with
adjustable sights, like this S&W Model 15. The addition of a barrel rib, adjustable sights and the larger grips
allowed officers to sight their guns for different types of ammo.
S&W Model 15 Combat Masterpiece .38 Special
In many cities and counties, and very often state police agencies, the .357 Magnum was the choice for it's range and
the ability of the .357 to penetrate auto-body sheet metal. Most officers preferred the lighter weight of the
S&W Model 19 for all day carry, such as this 4-inch specimen.
But for many officers, they wanted the top-of-the-line .357 Magnum and nothing less would do.
For them, the Colt Python was their choice.
The competition between Colt and S&W for police holsters was, at times, very heated.
What the cops carried in a city often influenced what brand the citizens purchased for their own protection.
In the 1950s NYPD had a lot of Colt revolvers, either the Official Police model or the Police Positive Special
which was slightly smaller. A family member lived near NYC then and said S&W started making inroads to the
NY department in the early 1950s.
Colt Police Positive Special - 4th Issue (1974)
Colts were certainly popular in the Northeastern U.S. in cities like NYC, Boston, Hartford, Philadelphia, et al.
They were also popular in Chicago, Detroit and Cincinnati as I recall. In the south, Colts were popular although
starting around 1955 the S&W line could your need for less money than a Colt. Texas, where we lived, had a
mixture (as did a lot of the country) but the first police revolver I saw (around age six) was a Smith & Wesson.
The typical and iconic police revolvers were the Official Police and the Model 10. Not surprising as these
"basic model" guns were the most affordable for both agencies and individual officers alike.
S&W Model 10-6, 5-inch barrel, circa 1970
Officers wanting something better could, and often did, upgrade their revolvers by purchasing a revolver with
adjustable sights, like this S&W Model 15. The addition of a barrel rib, adjustable sights and the larger grips
allowed officers to sight their guns for different types of ammo.
S&W Model 15 Combat Masterpiece .38 Special
In many cities and counties, and very often state police agencies, the .357 Magnum was the choice for it's range and
the ability of the .357 to penetrate auto-body sheet metal. Most officers preferred the lighter weight of the
S&W Model 19 for all day carry, such as this 4-inch specimen.
But for many officers, they wanted the top-of-the-line .357 Magnum and nothing less would do.
For them, the Colt Python was their choice.
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
Also, there was a small move to SW 41 mag revolvers. San Antonio, Amarillo, San Francisco, North Carolina Highway patrol, San Jose, Dallas, some places in Wyoming - if Google searches are to be believed.
As we know, it was too much gun for most folks.
As we know, it was too much gun for most folks.
First as a deputy, then as a three-term sheriff, my father carried a Colt Python. Like the one in BillCA's pic. Why his backup was a Charter Arms and not a Colt or S&W, well... I never asked. He wasn't an overly large man, but he was very strong. His hands made that Python look small.
Hi Glenn,
The .41 Magnum was too much gun for a lot of police officers because they selected the wrong ammo. In 1964, Remington offered only 2 loads for the caliber. Both loads used a 210 grain bullet. The "Police" load was a 210gr LSWC which hit about 1100 fps out of a 6" barrel. That "light" load would deliver 565 ft-lbs of gee-whiz at the muzzle. The second load launched a 210 grain JSP at 1300 fps and delivered it's payload with 788 anvils. The mistake of most LEOS was in choosing the JSP ammo from years of believing jacketed ammo was a "better stopper" than the LSWC.
S&W Model 57, .41 Magnum
This resulted in the officers experiencing 25% more recoil than the police loading. The recoil was actually about 7% more than a typical 240 grain .44 Magnum JSP @1180 fps! And this doesn't even address the brilliant muzzle flash nor the significant concussion blast.
S&W Model 58, Military & Police .41 Magnum in nickel trim. Police load in the speedloader on the right.
The shame of it is the LSWC was a soft lead bullet that expanded very well when it hit its target. And it was nothing to sneeze at when fired into auto bodies either. But that was also the problem. The soft lead bullet of the police load could dramatically lead-foul the barrel very fast. Firing the police loading produced a very satisfying whumph of recoil in the hand - sort of like you had launched a fence post downrange - without being obnoxious.
Today the .41 Magnum enjoys a much wider selection of ammo available from most manufacturers. Bullet weights range from 170 to 265 grains. Sadly, all of these loads are geared towards hunting, leaving a dearth of self-defense loads. The closest I've come across is the semi-wildcat .41 Special cartridge loading from Jamison Brass & Ammunition Co. It throws a 215 grain hardcast LSWC at 1000 fps that delivers 477 ft-lbs at the muzzle.
The .41 Magnum was too much gun for a lot of police officers because they selected the wrong ammo. In 1964, Remington offered only 2 loads for the caliber. Both loads used a 210 grain bullet. The "Police" load was a 210gr LSWC which hit about 1100 fps out of a 6" barrel. That "light" load would deliver 565 ft-lbs of gee-whiz at the muzzle. The second load launched a 210 grain JSP at 1300 fps and delivered it's payload with 788 anvils. The mistake of most LEOS was in choosing the JSP ammo from years of believing jacketed ammo was a "better stopper" than the LSWC.
S&W Model 57, .41 Magnum
This resulted in the officers experiencing 25% more recoil than the police loading. The recoil was actually about 7% more than a typical 240 grain .44 Magnum JSP @1180 fps! And this doesn't even address the brilliant muzzle flash nor the significant concussion blast.
S&W Model 58, Military & Police .41 Magnum in nickel trim. Police load in the speedloader on the right.
The shame of it is the LSWC was a soft lead bullet that expanded very well when it hit its target. And it was nothing to sneeze at when fired into auto bodies either. But that was also the problem. The soft lead bullet of the police load could dramatically lead-foul the barrel very fast. Firing the police loading produced a very satisfying whumph of recoil in the hand - sort of like you had launched a fence post downrange - without being obnoxious.
Today the .41 Magnum enjoys a much wider selection of ammo available from most manufacturers. Bullet weights range from 170 to 265 grains. Sadly, all of these loads are geared towards hunting, leaving a dearth of self-defense loads. The closest I've come across is the semi-wildcat .41 Special cartridge loading from Jamison Brass & Ammunition Co. It throws a 215 grain hardcast LSWC at 1000 fps that delivers 477 ft-lbs at the muzzle.
A friend of mine started out with an S&W 28 that was soon replaced with an S&W 66, both were 4" barreled. He liked the 28 a lot better than the 66. He switched departments and was issued an S&W 59 that he had until retirement. He wasn't crazy about the 59 at all. He did buy it when he retired, just as a keepsake. His son has it now, and he carries a Sig 250 subcompact 9mm that I really like.
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
Nice post, Bill. Thanks for the info.
I was the chief firearms instructor for a medium-sized city in Maine in the early to mid 1970s. The issue revolver then was the Dan Wesson, 4" barreled el-cheapo, which cost the department about $66.
As officers became more skilled in handgun shooting, they bought better leather and speed-loaders. Some even smoothed up their DA triggers. I told them to never back off the hammer (coil) spring, but most didn't listen. One guy tried to shoot a woman who pulled a gun on him and he had three misfires before managing to shoot. The next day, he bought his own S&W Mod. 19, .357 from a friend.
After being a volunteer instructor, the dept hired me as a reserve officer. I carried my 6" Python in a Bianci #27, break-front holster. It was an imposing rig (though never used in anger). (I could place 12 shots in the X and 10 rings on a B-27, from 7(?) yards, in 14 seconds, thanks to speed-loaders.) One of my better targets is attached.
As officers became more skilled in handgun shooting, they bought better leather and speed-loaders. Some even smoothed up their DA triggers. I told them to never back off the hammer (coil) spring, but most didn't listen. One guy tried to shoot a woman who pulled a gun on him and he had three misfires before managing to shoot. The next day, he bought his own S&W Mod. 19, .357 from a friend.
After being a volunteer instructor, the dept hired me as a reserve officer. I carried my 6" Python in a Bianci #27, break-front holster. It was an imposing rig (though never used in anger). (I could place 12 shots in the X and 10 rings on a B-27, from 7(?) yards, in 14 seconds, thanks to speed-loaders.) One of my better targets is attached.
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I grew up in what was a small and somewhat isolated beach town near LA. In the 70's and 80's most of our local police officers carried some form of Smith with a few carrying Pythons. They were allowed to carry .357 magnum round if they wanted to and most did. When Smith introduced the 586/686, it pretty much dominate all other models. They switched to Sig 226's in the early 90's.
A neighboring town has pretty much carried cocked and locked 1911's since the 70's. They have always be know to be more aggressive and progressive with firearms. In the early nineties someone tried to rob a bank and it was immediately surrounded by officers carrying MP5/10's. No one knew that the police force had these, much less carried them in patrol vehicles. While they have switched to other pistols lately, you still see a lot of guys with cocked and locked 1911's.
Thanks to all who have contributed, this is very informative.
A neighboring town has pretty much carried cocked and locked 1911's since the 70's. They have always be know to be more aggressive and progressive with firearms. In the early nineties someone tried to rob a bank and it was immediately surrounded by officers carrying MP5/10's. No one knew that the police force had these, much less carried them in patrol vehicles. While they have switched to other pistols lately, you still see a lot of guys with cocked and locked 1911's.
Thanks to all who have contributed, this is very informative.
I didn't post at first because I wasn't a LEO, but I started my Security career in 2003 with a police trade-in Smith and Wesson 15-3, a fine .38 by any standard. I replaced it with a 6" GP-100 in a drop leg rig, and was carrying both as late as October of 2015.
I have since switched to a Glock. No complaints, but I didn't mind my revolvers either.
I have since switched to a Glock. No complaints, but I didn't mind my revolvers either.
Anyone who has watched the TV show Blue Bloods has seen the portrait of Teddy Roosevelt in the City of New York police Commissioner's office.
Teddy Roosevelt had quite the history with the NYPD as well as with guns. As a kid growing up LI NY I visited Teddy Roosevelt's "Summer White House" and the guy had an incredible collection of guns. Anyway, that is today's trivia.
Ron
Teddy Roosevelt had quite the history with the NYPD as well as with guns. As a kid growing up LI NY I visited Teddy Roosevelt's "Summer White House" and the guy had an incredible collection of guns. Anyway, that is today's trivia.
Ron
357 Python
New member
In my area most departments issued the S&W model 10 or 64. Most of the departments allowed their officers to carry their own as long as they used .38 Special ammo. I am aware of only one Deputy Sheriff here that in the 1980s carried a S&W model 57 41 Magnum. He carried for a few years until he had to fire it one night and according to various reports lit up half a hillside. I understand the Sheriff told him to get a 357 Magnum or .38 Special.
Model12Win
Moderator
Keep in mind many officers worldwide carried the Webley:
Not all revolver police were in America.
Not all revolver police were in America.
jolly roger
New member
Started in 1980 with S&W Model 64 stainless 4 inch, then carried a 686 4 inch for a while. Our agency went 45ACP in 1989 with S&W 4506s and I retired in 2012 and took home a practically brand new Glock 21SF as a retirement gun. I still have a 3 inch Model 65 and a 4 inch Highway Patrolman for old times sake!
Doc Holliday 1950
New member
4" Colt Python and S&W 38spec. As a Aug LEO I carried the Python for 3 years.
today I carry Glock 19 gen 4. Took me forever to break down and get a semi.
today I carry Glock 19 gen 4. Took me forever to break down and get a semi.
There were Charter Arms Police Bulldogs carried by a department here in Western Pa. I have my Grandfathers he was a officer there . Best i can figure is they used 158 lead round nose as there was several boxes of those, but also found was a full box of S & W 110 JHP ammo. Do not know if they were issue or individual bought.
Correct - how far back does the OP mean by "back in the day"?
From 1964 or '65 through the late 1970s, some U.S police agencies issued or approved - and some number of real "Dirty Harry"-types carried - this bad boy.*
It's like a Model 10 that overdosed on steroids ...
S&W Model 58, .41 Magnum.
Shown with the 210gn lead FN "police load" x6, commonly known on the streets as the "thug thumper."
Some interesting S&W wall art from back in the day ...
*See also Bill's post above (#65).
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Stephanie B
New member
Circa 1923 S&W Model 1905, 4th Change, that was reportedly surplused from the Jacksonville, FL PD in the 1960s and purchased by the officer that it had then been issued to:
