What performance could load the 30-06 up to?

R

Ruger480

New member
As some of you may have noticed, I am a HUGE fan of the 30-06.
Earlier I started a thread 270 vs 308 because people are always exclaiming that those cartridges can be loaded to similar performances as an 06.

Then I wondered what that cartridge could really do.
So, I did a search but couldn't find what the 30-06 could be pushed to.
Does any one have the numbers on what the '06 can put up in a modern bolt action?
 
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Short answer:
Buy a .300 magnum of some type.
Why hop up the 30-06 beyond reasonable levels one can find in the
published reloading manuals?????????????????????????????:confused:
There are good reasons why you can't find published data on what
the 30-06 can be "pushed to". :eek::eek:
And the .270 Win. & .308 Win. CAN and have always been made to perform SIMLIAR to the 30-06.
I don't remember ever reafing anything saying the .270 or .308 can dupicate all the loads possible with the 30-06.:confused::confused:
Perhaps you could refine your post & make it more clear what you are trying to
achieve by "pushing" any caliber to whatever end you mean??????

Quote:
"Does any one have the numbers on what the '06 can put up in a modern bolt action?"


The 30-06 WAS first made in a modern bolt action rifle & many, many, rifles followed suit.
I'm a bit confused.
It was never a black powder ctg made for a weak action like the Springfield Trapdoor ya know?
 
In a modern rifle in good condition, the .30-06 can safely be loaded all the way up to full .30-06 levels.
Beyond that, best to buy a rifle in a caliber that goes beyond that.
Denis
 
I've used a 26" '06 since 1971. Federal Premium High Energy loads, with the Sierra 165-grain HPBT have a muzzle velocity of 3,150, just as it says on the box, per some chronograph testing.

A safe, maximum conventional load (52.5 grains of 4064) sends a 150-grain bullet out at some 3,100. 54.0 grains of H414 behind a Sierra 180-grain SPBT starts splashback and a 1/8"-3/16" dimple in steel at 500 yards.

53 grains of 3031 drives an 80-grain pistol bullet to nearly 4,000 ft/sec, and a 110-grain bullet to about 3,500.

5 grains of pistol powder and a double-ought ball is a great squirrel/rabbit load.
 
What Art Eatman said.
ALL CONVENTIONAL SAFE LOADS.
Why would anyone push the envelope for more than the grand ol' '06
already can do????
 
With a 22" barrel I have no problems getting

3000-3100 fps with 150's
2900-2950 fps with 165's
2800-2850 fps with 180's

All with around .5-.7MOA. ALL ARE UNDER MAX LOADS AND PERFECTLY SAFE

I've tried some of the Hornady Superformance ammo. It was considerably slower in my guns. In fact only matched my handloads. Never tried the Federal high energy loads.

I know some guys who push the envelope a bit and beat those speeds. A 24-28", or even longer barrel will add speed even with these loads.

Just to compare most 300 mags will look something like this

150's 3300-3400 fps
165's 3100-3200
180's 2950-3100

I also load for a 308. My best loads

130's 3100 fps
150's 2900 fps
165's 2680 fps
Never tried 180's in it

No, my 308 won't quite match my 30-06. BUT.... I do match 30-06 factory loads and modern 308 loads beat WW-2 era 30-06 speeds by 200 fps. The 30-06 earned its reputation in post WW-2 shooting 150's at around 2700 fps. I don't feel a bit handicapped with a 308 at 2900 fps with todays much better bullets.
 
I have seen a reloader, using a 24 in Bull barreled rifle with a "fast barrel" obtain 3333 fps 5 shot average using ReLoder 17 powder. NO pressure signs but he did back off of them due to recoil. He used Nosler 150 Ballistic Tip bullets.
 
Ruger480 said:
As some of you may have noticed, I am a HUGE fan of the 30-06.

Earlier I started a thread 270 vs 308 because people are always exclaiming that those cartridges can be loaded to similar performances as an 06.



Then I wondered what that cartridge could really do.

So, I did a search but couldn't find what the 30-06 could be pushed to.

Does any one have the numbers on what the '06 can put up in a modern bolt action?
Click to expand...


Do you mean within SAAMI max pressure or with decent brass life or without blowing up the gun?
 
You can safely load a .30-06 case almost full of Bullseye pistol powder then seat a 172-gr. bullet atop it. You can also safely chamber that round.

That's what the USN Small Arms Match Conditioning Unit did back in the 1960's testing a low-numbered M1903 Springfield. They'd tried to blow the rifle with increased charges of IMR4895 and IMR4350 under 172-gr. bullets but only succeded in having to beat the bolt handle open to get fired cases out and saw that the bolt lugs had been set forward a little bit. So much for loading; assuming you don't pinch your fingers in the press doing this, but it is a safe procedure as far as loading is concerned.

Now on to the shooting part. . . . . . . .

The crew was glad they were behind the safety berm when they pulled the lanyard to fire that clamped in rifle. They were convinced its the firing part of the operation that's dangerous.

=======================

On another related subject; visible pressure signs. Most popular "rubber ruler" measuring method for peak pressure in cartridge cases ever devised.
 
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Hornady Superperformance loads are pretty much max safe loads from the factory. I'm sure a handloader could PROBABLY squeeze a little more out, but you're likely over published max loads at that point.

It also depends on barrel length obviously but from a 24'' barrel you could expect 3100-3200 ft-lbs of energy to be about the max for 30-06.

AFAIK, .308 Winchester cannot quite reach that I'm seeing 3050ft-lbs is about the safe max, with most common loads, well under that at 2600-2800ft-lbs.

Original SAAMI max for the 06 is 60KPSI, though modern actions could easily take 65KPSI which is the SAAMI rating for the .270 win.
.308 win pressure rating is 62K but there have been instances where the cartridge has been loaded hotter.
 
Why???

I found just about all 5 of my '06 shoot the best when loaded between 2600 & 2700 FPS using 150-180 gr bullets.

Nothing is this world can't be brought down (or hasn't been brought down) with that load.

I see no reason to beat me and the rifle up trying to make a magnum out of it.
 
Been shooting the '06 about as long as Art. I fooled with various powders and settled on H4895. Hodgdon's 'book' max for a 150 grain Nosler BT will break 3000 fps from my old Remington 78; but the sweet spot came .4 grain shy of that for 2940 fps and 3" 200 yard groups. That load flattens deer at 250 yards and I've never felt the need to load it hotter.
 
Do you mean within SAAMI max pressure?
Click to expand...

Yes.

And Mr. Eatman has touched on what I was looking for.

I'm not trying to turn the '06 into a 300 Win Mag but I am curious as to how close one can safely approach 300 Win Mag velocities with bullets 165 grain and heavier.

As to the comment about buying a 300 win mag, I'm not interested in that particular cartridge. I already have an 06
 
I can understand why an individual might not want to push the limits but this "Why?!" stuff is a bunch of nonsense.

If "Why?!" ruled the world, we'd all still be living in caves and eating raw meat.

Why do people buy Corvettes instead of minivans... and then add superchargers?

Why do people climb tall mountains?

Why did we go to the moon?

Why did we invent explosives in the first place?

Why did we pack them in a tube and put something in front of them?

You don't want to do it, fine, don't. There's no need. It's understandable. Pretending you don't understand why others might, is just silly.
 
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Why???
Click to expand...

Because I see this info
65KPSI which is the SAAMI rating for the .270 win.
.308 win pressure rating is 62K but there have been instances where the cartridge has been loaded hotter.65KPSI which is the SAAMI rating for the .270 win.
.308 win pressure rating is 62K but there have been instances where the cartridge has been loaded hotter.
Click to expand...

all the time but couldn't find it for the 06.

Also....what Brian said
 
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It is what it is

The case is what it is you cant make it any larger and what game is there on the North American Continent other then Brown Bear that might require more power. Last time I checked we dont have any elephants to hunt.
 
Ruger280, download the following SAAMI document then save it. Read it as it's got all the pressure data for a slew of cartridges; both the old copper units of pressure and the modern pounds per square inch units.

And the .30-06 is in there, too.

http://www.saami.org/specifications_and_information/publications/download/206.pdf

Note that peak pressures differ across different calibers based on the same case (the .30-06 and its 25 and 27 caliber sisters) and that's for different reasons. Some .30-06 rifles aren't quite as strong as those chambered for the .270 Win. Which is why SAAMI and Winchester agreed that the .270 could be loaded to a tiny bit higher peak pressures and still be safe.

And for comparison, check the other 30 caliber cartridges' peak pressures, too. Much to learn from that document.

Slickest way in get more speed for a given cartridge bullet weight's to use a much longer barrel. Which is why the 1960's era British Rifle Teams shooting 7.62 NATO military ball ammo's 147-gr. bullet needed a 30 to 32 inch barrel to shoot it fast enough to remain supersonic through 1000 yards in cold weather. Their rules say arsenal ammo has to be used; no handloads. They could have used ultra hot reloads in modern actions but that wasn't allowed. So adding several inches to the standard 22" service rifle barrel made that bullet leave the muzzle over 3000 fps instead of about 2700 to 2800.

A 30" .30-06 barrel lets safe ammo shoot bullets out about 200 fps faster than standard ones in the 22" and 24" length. And with powder that's been proved to be most accurate with that light a bullet in that sized case.
 
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More progressive powders have added a good bit of velocity to the .30-06 over the years, without increasing the chamber pressure. Sure, you could gain a little more by loading it to the 54000 CUP of the .270, but how do you know when you get there?

It is nowhere like the absurdities of the .257 Roberts.
 
Some .30-06 rifles aren't quite as strong as those chambered for the .270 Win. Which is why SAAMI and Winchester agreed that the .
Click to expand...
I know this. It's why I also made the statement about using a modern bolt action, meaning one that isn't known for structural weakness and could conceivably handle today's powders .
Also, before someone mentions it, I'd like to exclude the '06 AI.
 
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