What is this Airman carrying?

When I ran the Marksmanship Unit for the AK NG, besides marksmanship I was task with firearms training of the units.

Including our Aviation Units. They carried Model 15s but as they wore out they were replaced with Ruger.

Many bought their own so they wouldn't have to deal with the Ego's of Unit Armors. They were Model 15s and Rugers also.

I did the same, when qualifying with I used my Colt SP1, when I had to carry a pistol, I carried my personal USGI 1911a1, Even after we went to the Berretta's. A lot of our aviators didn't want to go to the Berettas either so I provided them with 38 ammo I ordered under the guise it was Marksmanship ammo.

The people who KNEW the regulations, either didn't care, or they really didn't know the regulations.

I always said that "Regulations were guidance for the commander, not doctrine".
 
Again- The stags were standard issue for SAC Elite guards, or possibly anyplace a local commander might authorize or issue them.
I was stationed at two SAC bases, we never had stags.
They were not worn by ALL SAC guards.

SAC Elite was the unit on display at SAC Headquarters.
It was its own deal, with its own uniform variant.
Denis
 
Might help to understand a little more about the Security Police, before the Security Forces branding was created. :)

For many years, Security was split into TWO branches- SP & LE.

SP (Security) handled asset protection.
We wore standard OD fatigues, but with bloused boots, and worked as guards for planes, bombs, missiles, and other physical assets.
For the most part, we carried, depending on where stationed & type of duty, 16s, .38s, M60s, and so on.

Leather gear was a Bucheimer holster & dump boxes, worn on the old OD web belt.
Hats were ballcaps, till about 75-76, when the beanies took over.

Regular SP, to the best of my knowledge, never was issued or allowed to carry anything fancy on revolver grips.
We carried whatever was on the gun issued.

At a new base, you'd qualify with a .38 & a 16, you were given two laminated cards with "your" guns detailed on them.
Beginning of shift, before guardmount, you'd hand your card to the armorer through his window, he'd trade you "your" gun for it, and stick your card in the gun's slot on the rack to show at a glance where a checked-out gun was.

End of shift, clear the gun under NCO supervision at the clearing barrel, trade it with the armorer for your card.
You carried, unless something broke, the same two guns for your entire stay at that base. One shift might be a .38 at an ECP or indoor post, next shift might be an area foot patrol with a 16.
And they never went "home" to the barracks at the end of shift.

You took what was handed to you, and you did not dress it up.

In a combat zone, variations on the theme occurred, but this was the basic process for a working SP on an established base with on-base assets.

LE (law enforcement) wore some form of blues with actual leather gunbelts, typically a white hat, wore .38s (during my time in the 70s), did not generally do guard duty, aside from base entry gates, and performed some of the functions of a base police department in terms of patrol in cars (not trucks like SP), and handling problems like domestic disputes & so on in base housing.

Ongoing investigations of certain "crimes" were handled by an Investigations Unit, which could be plain clothes.

SP was the closest to infantry the Air Force had.
We were expected to detect, report, and repel attacks on a base or an asset.

LE was more of a PD, and not considered much of a part of base defense.
When we did drills & simulated exercises, I don't recall seeing them much involved.
Never saw them in restricted areas (nuke-loaded planes, other priority aircraft, bomb storage compounds).

Investigations handled thefts, drugs, etc.

The SAC Elite was a stand-alone unit ONLY at SAC's headquarters.
They had their own uniform, wore white scarves, blue beanies (long before the rest of us were forced to), their own duty belt, white boot laces, and those crossdraw holsters with stagged Smiths.

SAC Elite, being the palace guard, was very selective in who they'd let in.
You had to apply. If there was a vacancy, and if your record was gold-plated & you could present the appropriate SH appearance, you might have a chance.
Gotta look spiffy around all those generals & colonels & queens. :)

Denis
 
DPris, Mike Irwin,

In the picture provided of the honor guard greeting QE II, I wished
at least one of them showed some individuality and had orange laces.

If I was a general, I would have exclaimed, "Outstanding!"
 
Individuality in SAC Elite was NOT encouraged.

Not knocking those guys, but they were a showroom unit & had to be on top of their game constantly.

They just played a different game than us ground-sloggers did. :)

The LE guys were nowhere near as "special" as Elite, but were still more on display to the public at gates & more recognizable as "cops" in the visible areas of the base.

Mostly, if you saw us SPs anywhere but the chow hall, you were getting too near places you shouldn't be, without a restricted area card.

We didn't have to look pretty, we were mostly just there as a physical presence with a gun to keep unauthorized people out of places that unauthorized people weren't supposed to be in, with a side order (in actual reality) of being the first ones shot if anybody did want to get at an asset.

And, re the queen, she certainly never provided an honor guard reception when I first arrived in HER country! :)
Denis
 
"The stags were standard issue for SAC Elite guards"

Yes, my post wasn't specific enough.

It was an image thing. I THINK, but am not sure, that the Elite guard also had a special beret, didn't they?
 
SAC Elite INVENTED the USAF blue beanie.
Which was eventually forced on the rest of us later on. :)

Hated that worthless thing.
Still actually have mine.
Denis
 
The only thing different about the Elite beanie & ours would have been the crest.

The beanie was spreading when I came back to the US in late 75.
My SP squadron in Michigan had just adopted it shortly before I got there.
They didn't have one in my size in Supply, so I was allowed to stick to the old ballcap while they ordered one all the way from Canada.

Once issued, I wore mine with the front stiffener folded down like a golf cap, which drove my flight chief knuts.

The beanies were so new (had not seen one overseas) at that base that there still was no officially designed Security Police crest to use on it. No idea what the Elite used, but we sure as hell would never have been allowed to sully it. :)

Our commander obtained approval from Somewhere On High to use a standard SAC crest pin on 'em, and I have no idea when an official Security Forces crest was phased in.
Dunno what other squadrons elsewhere did.
Denis
 
LE was more of a PD, and not considered much of a part of base defense.
When we did drills & simulated exercises, I don't recall seeing them much involved.
Never saw them in restricted areas (nuke-loaded planes, other priority aircraft, bomb storage compounds).

Investigations handled thefts, drugs, etc.
Click to expand...

I concur with most of your post, but during base-wide exercises, LE was often used to supplement Security on flight line posts, at least at bases I was at.

Also, crimes of a more serious nature were handled by OSI (Office of Special Investigation), who carried compact .45 autos when I was in.
 
I was trying to keep it fairly simple, without getting too far into Investigations. :)
There were SPI & OSI, but those only complicate the picture far beyond what the original question was.

Only noting here briefly what the various Security Police functions were to differentiate what was in the original post photo from the rest of the AF "Security And/or Police Umbrella".

I'm sure LE had things to do during base alerts & other drills & I'm not belittling those, just never saw 'em out in the restricted areas we had responsibility for.
Don't even know if they were authorized for restricted area access like we had to be.

Can't recall ever seeing LE draw a 16 or carry one.
They did their thing, we did ours.

Different functions that didn't overlap.
They didn't shoot people for getting too close to a Priority A B-52, we didn't shoot people for running a main gate.
Denis
 
I trained and qualified with M15's at the USAF Academy from '65 to '68 and none had stag grips, nor did the SP's that were gate guards at the Academy in that time frame. Later, I was issued a M15 with the standard (non-target) grips while serving as a Forward Air Controller in Vietnam. I"ve never heard of stag griped M15's in USAF operations. As a KC-135 pilot from 70-75, none of the security police detailed to guard our alert birds at Fairchild AFB, WA were using stag gripped handguns.

In country, in Vietnam's lll Corps, in 1970, I was assigned to a Special Forces camp 10 k's from the Cambodian border. I carried what I damned well liked, including at one time or another: WWll era 1911a1, Browning HP, Smith's M15, an M79 grenade launcher and an AK47. We were never 'inspected' by higher authority, and were virtually immune to uniform and weapon regulations...the area was far to hot for any flip chart flunkie from Bien Hoa to visit....

This is not to say M15's with 'stag' grips didn't happen, but knowing the stateside Air Force at the time it seems highly unlikely in my experience...as always, YMMV, Rod
 
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"This is not to say M15's with 'stag' grips didn't happen, but knowing the stateside Air Force at the time it seems highly unlikely in my experience...as always, YMMV, Rod"

As has been noted, and as has been shown in attached photographs, the stag-gripped revolvers were issued to SAC Elite guards, who served to protect Strategic Air Command assets, perform ceremonial functions, and provide security to the SAC commanding general.

They were, in essence, a praetorian guard inside the inner echelon of Air Force security forces.

Stag grips were not standard issue for all Air Force-issued S&W revolvers, and it's highly doubtful that many ever traveled outside of the United States, likely only doing so while providing security to SAC commanders.
 
A reference source citation from Wikipedia that indicates the origin of the SAC Elite guard's uniform and weapons.

Pinckney, Kali, Defensor Fortis: A Brief History of USAF Security And Those Dedicated Few Who Defend the Air Force At The Ground Level, Universal Publishers Press, ISBN 1-58112-554-2, ISBN 978-1-58112-554-2 (2003), pp. 37-38
 
Howdy

Kind of looks like this K-38. The gun shipped in 1957, just before S&W went to their current system of model numbers. When I bought it, it was wearing this pair of fake stag horn grips. Clearly not original to the gun, but I really like them so I left them on it.

k3801_zps57e707ad.jpg
 
Like rodfac, I was an Air Policeman assigned to security duties from 1962 to 1966.For the first 1 1/2 years I was stationed at Andersen AFB in Guam, where we carried 1911 pistols. For the last couple of years I was stationed at the Wurtsmith SAC AFB, in Michigan, where most of us were issued Smith & Wesson Model 10s with 2" long barrels and/or M1 Carbines. Some personnel were issued Smith "Combat Masterpieces" with 4" long barrels. I don't recall anyone ever being issued a revolver having stag grips-and I would have noticed if they did.
 
I don't believe Rodfac said he was Security Police.

Again- SAC ELITE!
ONE INSTALLATION.
Not general issue.

Should not be this hard to understand.
Denis
 
You're right, he didn't and, from what he said, probably wasn't. I was (SP). I guess I was referring to the SP that were "gate guards" at the academy.
 
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