What is the toughest aftermarket finish availible?

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Greg, did Gaston Glock shoot your dog? Just kidding, have you owned a glock? I have never owned or shot a P7 so I cannot comment on the weapon other than I have heard that it is one the best handguns out there. As far as glocks blowing up most of the reported cases are from .40 cal and a lot of those are attributed to over charged reloads or reloads that are seated to deeply along with lead bullets. My glock is not even my favorite handgun but I am willing to admit that it is a decent weapon. (The springfield long slide in .45 super will probably take the place of my old favorite springfield as soon as I can order one.) All I am saying is that of the 3 glocks that I have experience with none had a single failure to feed. I have over 1200 rounds through my g22 and it has never had a stoppage. Is the glock the finest handgun out there, no. Is it junk, no. I am sure that the P7 is probably a better weapon but I am not sure that it is 600 to 800 dollars better. I am going to have to find someone that owns one and is willing to let me make a trip to the range with it. As far as I know I am the only one here that thinks the glock is a fine weapon but not either the end all of handguns or right next to lorcin on the quality scale. :)

[This message has been edited by Keeper (edited July 21, 1999).]
 
Glock Talk is great fun, but please don't consider the collection of members over there that love to tinker to be representative of 95%+ of the Glock owners who understand that you are definitly not supposed to put aftermarket parts nor are you supposed to put reloads in or on a Glock (night sights being the obvious exemption to that rule).



[This message has been edited by Rob (edited July 21, 1999).]
 
Greg, to get back to your original subject.
Go to www.sprinco.com They have something called sprin koat that is a resin based moly disulfide coating. I am thinking of having my M-1A coated with it. Also I have heard good things about Walter Birdsongs Black T finish. The guys at springfield said they have used it before with good results. Hope that helps.

[This message has been edited by Keeper (edited July 21, 1999).]
 
I used to have a very elitist notion about Glocks (A PLASTIC PISTOL?). I loved modifying my 1911's and just plain shooting my Sig. But then one day I put some serious time into shooting a friend's Glock (I was constantly harassing him about his "toy" gun). I developed a respect for this gun. I bought one. I've never owned a more reliable handgun. I'm no longer a steel gun elitist.

BTW, I'd like to point out that many, many LEA's buy Glocks, even when price is not the main issue. The US Army does NOT use them. Does that mean that the Beretta was chosen because it was the cheapest they could find? I don't think so.

The Glock is NOT the prettiest of my guns, nor is it the most meticulously crafted of my weapons. But it is the one that sits by my bed at night while the others rest comfortably in the safe.

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Warthog
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Get yourself a Glock, and lose that nickel plated sissy pistol.
 
As far as Glocks go,
1. other than some small parts, they are not stampings (as are Sigs, now THERE's an overpriced handgun...)
2. As others have already said, they are every bit and more so durable than most other choices.
3. 40S&W Glocks and ones converted to strange calibers (45 Super, 400 Cor-Bon, etc.) are the ones that ka-BOOM.
4. Over at Glock Talk, there is HEALTHY debate on whether Glocks NEED those extra-power springs and other mods.
5. If your HK P7 is 70% better because it's 7-% more expensive, than what about an AMT Automag, Bren Ten, HK Mk23 SOCOM, etc., etc.? Aren't they far superior than the P7?
6. Need I go on?

Now, back to the original question. I have a Detonics with the factory NP3 finish on the frame and the black plating over the NP3 finish on the slide. The "Raw" matte chrome colored NP3 is extremely durable. It's the only finish I've found, other than Tennifer, that will not show corrosion after contact with my particularly acidic sweat. I've heard the Metalife HardChromeSS is the one that comes with the lifetime warranty, or used to? If so, it has a good reputation with several guys I know. I've thought of getting that, but not wanted to spend the big bucks asked until I was really needing one re-finished.
 
As a knife nut, I would have to compare Glocks to the Zytel-handled lightweight Spydercos.
Plastic handled Spyderco folders get the job done, and occasionally you will even see a knife collector with $$150 Benchmades in his safe but occasionally a $50 Spyderco in his pocket. Does the $150 knife cut 3 times better or last 3 times longer under abuse than the $50 Spyderco? No. But, the $150 Benchmade folder is definitly worth the extra money, and is indeed a better knife but as with all products it follows the law of diminishing returns. It is certainly a better knife, but not 3 times the knife in performance (but in craftsmanship instead). Occasionally, when the knife nut wants to go get dirty and abuse his knife, he puts the daily Benchmade away and grabs the cheap Spyderco because it does just about as good a job, but it is less painful when it gets beat up.
Glocks are the Zytel Spydercos of the gun world. They get the job done *almost* as well as a more expensive gun, and occasionally you will see me with my nicer guns in the safe and a Glock on my hip. I would still PREFER to be carrying the nicer gun, but because it costs too much to replace, and I am poor, I carry the cheap gun if there is any chance that the gun will be abused or lost.

To the question: I would stick with Metacal lll (sp?) for my gun because it is the only coating I know of that is NOT horrendously overpriced. If most people knew how cheap and easy it was to coat these guns, they would be highly p!ssed off at how much some places are charging for the process. I was quoted that my P7 and a couple mags could be Metacal'd for just over $100. I forget who does it, I think it was Arizona Respose Systems.
 
Take a look at Metacol 3 at www.arizonaresponsesystems.com

Also, in my research on this subject, I called RoBar and talked to them extensively, because getting my (practically mint condition) $1200 HK P7 M13 coated was something that I wanted to get right the first time.
I was told that the (light gray) NP3 is a very slick finish and not at all as durable as the black (Roguard?) finish they offer. NP3 has been known to flake as well.
These reason are why it is popular and suggested that people NP3 the insides of the gun (for lubrication) and Black finish the outside of the gun.
If you want two-tone, you want the slide to be the durable black finish (to resist holster wear etc) and the frame to be NP3, although this is purely for aesthetics because the tougher black finish is the overall better choice for the outside of the gun. NP3 on the slide, according to RoBar, is not the best of ideas because it is not as durable and also it is slippery, which is exactly NOT what you want when you are trying to cycle the slide on your pistol under dire circumstances.
I believe the RoBar finish, in whatever variety you wish to have it done, is about $350.
I would still stick with the Metacol, as I am told is is as good or better, and it is reasonably priced. RoBar is raping people with their price and you are paying fot the name.


Oh yeah, and THE toughest finish out there PERIOD, is "Tigold" (or varieties thereof) which I think can still be viewed at www.tigold.com.
This stuff is used to coat DRILL BITS! It is put on with little or no heat, can be removed just as easily, is thin enough that you can even coat your barrel in it with no problems, and as I said, it is so tough you can put it on a drill bit or on heavy digging equipment and it will not come off during use. BUT, the problem is, this company will not coat anythig except for large companies. They have no interest in doing a single gun (my buddy called them and tried). The website only shows it in gold, but says that it can be had in a variety of colors. Oh yeah, and it is CHEAP!!!!
Now, if we could just get a gun company to wise up and start using this stuff on their guns, it would change the gun industry forever and for low cost to the buyer.

Anyone out there listening?




[This message has been edited by thaddeus (edited July 22, 1999).]
 
Guys,

Dan, I am very serious. I have contacted Rebel refinishing on a tip I got from this thread. They quoted about a $100 for a satin chrome finish. I liked the price but the guy was so unresponsive to my worries about the P7's gas system ("Hell, I've got a brush")that I have been having second thoughts. I e-mailed techplate and they said $150 for the same finish.
I have also talked to ARS about their Metacol 3 finish. They said they were HK approved and even had pictures of a refinished M13 on their web-site. This I liked. However, have any of you seen an M3 finish. I know it won't be as tough as chrome but is it significantly better than the factory finish? The gun, as it stands has no wear, but all I have done is shoot it at the range and put it back in the dinky box that Hk sent it in. The only reason I prefer chrome is because it is supposedly the toughest (other than the unavailable finishes you guys have mentioned). If anyone has an Metacol III finish, please tell me.
Greg "I'm sorry" Bell
 
thaddeus, it sounds like the tigold stuff formula might be jealously guarded as a trade secret. Otherwise, some gun manuf'er would have picke up on it by now, no?
 
Tenifer is hard, but there are better finishes for rust resistance. In my experience w Glocks at rental ranges, police/military ranges, they are not as reliable as the Beretta/SIG, not as tough as the USP when it comes to handling hot loads, though they give you Tenifer on the inside/ouside of the barrel, and HK does not put HE on the barrel. I take care of my stuff, so finish isn't a top priority.

The He finish, like Tenifer, gets shiny, but the protection is still there.

I've had em all, and Metalife is tops for "bang for your buck" toughness. Metacol would be my second choice if rust resistance is more important than abrasion resistance (you gotta rob Peter to pay Paul somewhat).

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Greg:

One guy with whom I shoot (IDPA) has had several guns done with Metacol III. He loves the finish: its a beautiful finish (his are black), and very slick internally, where it counts. He has had both autos and wheel guns done in Metacol III.

The guy who runs Arizona Response Systems used to work for Robar, and had a falling out with him. The ARS finish and methods are quite similar, except their prices are much more reasonable. He is a regular participant on the SIG list.
 
I've had good experiences with Ron Mahovsky's Metalife. I've sent out 6 guns out to him and they all turned out exceptionally well. The finish is durable (Rockwell 70-72) and really adds to the appearance of the firearm (even if its a 'white-blue' color). It will not chip, peel or crack. I recommend having the matte Metalife finish instead of of the 'shiny' finish.
I'll continue to send him firearms for re-finishing. BUT take into account he takes about 4-5 weeks to get the firearm back to you. His prices are ALOT less than you would think and less than some of the more 'popular' finishes out there. And this is a finish that should last longer than you would.

Give him a call at 814-436-7747 and get a quote. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

Just my 2 pesos.

Lou
 
I have two pistols coated by Sprinco and really like the stuff, but I think the ARS Metacol III is the same and I am going to send my SIG P220 to them. Neither is going to be as tough as an industrial hard chrome like Armalloy, nor the titanium nitride. My guess is Tigold is a type of titanium nitride.

[This message has been edited by Jeff OTMG (edited July 23, 1999).]
 
Greg: Although not as sexy as some of the new, high tech finishes, my vote goes for hard chrome as well. It's way up there on Rockwell scale (high 50s or low 60s, can't remember), which makes it extremely resistant to corrosion and scratching. I can personally recommend Accurate Plating and Weaponry (Cogan Custom) in Safety Harbor, FL. Phone number is (813) 796-5583. I used to be stationed at MacDill AFB and they plated two J frame Smiths I used to carry IWB year round. The finish is absolutely fabulous and can be done brush, satin or something that looks like stainless steel (polished?)...even has a black chrome finsih available as well. Finally, Bob Cogan is a great guy who will take the time to talk with you (if he's in) and answer questions straight up. His staff is also helpful and extremely knowledgeable. Good Luck!
Mike
 
Greg, sorry for the late post.

I had to come out of retirement for this post.

Check out limcat.com. They are probably sending it to the folks at Tigold, but that's o.k. The basic equipment for this process costs over $1 million, and that whittles down who can do the process! It also influences gunsmiths opinions, I'm sure.

I have had several guns done, including one of my P7's, and it is truly, far superior to the rest. Rockwell at about 85-92, does not chip, flake or peel(under any circumstances) can be removed with a special aqueous solution that does not remove ANY metal, and the list of attributes goes on.

Oh, and I've driven souped-up Pinto's (yes, on purpose). It can be done, but why? And, finally, don't EVER disassemble that P series H&K unless you are absolutely positive you can reassemble it. It can break your heart.

I have several H&K P's, but carry my Glock.
You'll figure it out eventually. ;)

David
 
I had a Browning HP done in Chromium SS by Metalife about a year ago. It is beautiful. My gunsmith, who sent it off, told me over the phone on recieval that he didn't like it. I think he prefers matte hard chrome, but his comments had me dreading the gun's arrival. But I think this gun is just gorgeous and looks like a stainless Highpower, well polished but not mirror like. Presentation grade Speigel grips don't hurt its arpearance.

My brother had an armoloyed .45 and I have seen regular hard chrome on another. Any future guns I have plated will get this Chromium SS finish.
 
What color is the process by limcat? Is it available in black? Can it be applied to aluminum or stainless steel? What is the turnaround time?

Thanks
 
David Wright,

You sneaky devil, we can't talk about this anymore! Aww heck...

1. It is hard to refute a statement like "You will figure it out eventually." Oh well, untill that day, I'll stick with reliability and saftey over capacity and the easy training transition from mattel cap-pistol to "safe-action."

2. As far as taking the P7's cocking mechanism apart, it is a little more difficult than most other guns. I have done it before--not a huge deal--if you are patient. One of the nice things about P7's is that, unlike the Glock, there is no reason to break it down. I guess if I was always replacing broken parts I would be longing for the simplicity of "Glock perfection."
3. Hee, hee. Anyway thanks for the suggestions. I've already settled on hard-chrome for the PSP. However, if it doesn't cut it I may get my M8 done in something else.

Greg, "me very sorry" Bell

P.S. What does that finish your talking about look like?

[This message has been edited by Greg Bell (edited July 27, 1999).]
 
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