What is the toughest aftermarket finish availible?

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Greg Bell

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Guys,
I have just bought a new P7 PSP and I am wondering what finish you guys would recomend. I have a Nickel M8 and I would say the finish has done a so-so job. I am looking for the toughest, meanest finish availible. I really don't care what the finish looks like as long as it is resistant to rust and can stand up to regular holstering.
I have heard on this site that chrome is an excellent choice. However, someone said they had a problem with the gas system afterwards.
I have heard that the Robar finish (np3) has given mixed results. Some have complained of holser wear. Others say it is the best.
Apparently HK recomends Arizona Response system's Metacol III. Personally, I don't care what HK says because they are the ones who put this pathetic excuse for a finish on the gun. However, I would be interested in what you guys have seen/heard.
How does nickel stack up incomparison to these finished. At the time it was availible from the factory so I went with it. I think it is ugly but it certainly stood up to my holster better than my old m13 with standard finish.
A guy at HK said the German navy divers got an HE finish on their P7's--damn it why not us!
Actually, my experience with the HE finish from HK is that it isn't much better than my M13's standard blue. The USP9 I had lost its finish from around the ejection port just from dust in the box!!
Please help, who does a decent job refinishing guns!

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Epictetus
 
As best I can tell, the hard chrome finish is the most durable available -- and is available from several sources. You may not want a bright, light finish.

The Roguard, Black T, Metacol spray-on finishes come in second, and with everything else trailing by a good bit. (The Hard chrome may also be available in black.) Check out www.Arizonaresponsesystems.com to see this type of finish. (Many photos in their Finish Gallery. ARS is about the most reasonable firm around, and several folks that I know who have had their gun refinished there are very happy.)
 
Here's an additional finish I'm sure you've heard of if you've read any of Chuck Taylor's writings - Metalife Chromium SS. It is supposed to be very durable, and I'm eventually going to have my cmbt. cmdr. done in it. I believe this is the latest contact info. for the finish -

Metalife Ind.
Ron Mahovsky
814 436-7747
Sales@metalifeind.com
RD#1
Box 149A
Eureka RD
Grand Valley, PA 16420

If anyone else has any imput about this finish or the people who do it, please let us know.

EricO
 
I have just about settled on hard chroming (satin). I can stand the finish looks if it is as tough as they say. Is it corrosion resistant? Does anyone know of a place that can chrome my PSP?
 
Greg,
The RO at the combat shoot that I attend weekly has a P7M8 that has satin hard chrome with many thousands of rounds through it. It still looks great.
The shop is:
Rebel Refinishing
111 N. Main St.
Wildwood, FL 34785
(352) 330-0268
My P7M8 is on it's way This week.

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FYI, the Chief of Police in Weatherby Lakes, MO, has Metalife SS finish on his HK P7 M8. It looks great, and he says it works very well.

I once had a S&W M27 357 (3.5" barrel) Metalifed, but like an idiot, I swapped it off before I had a chance to see how well it held up.
 
The hardest and most durable finish available has just been offered by Checkmate Refinishing as of 2 months ago. It is titanium nitride. I think it Rockwells at 60-65. Unfortunately it is gold and I think it would look like hell, but you said you didn't care what it looked like.
 
I've been waiting for years for a titanium nitride finish to become available.

But I thought they could fudge the color in several directions. Not true?

What's the price?
 
The color depends upon the gas used and the metal vaporized. Nitrogen and Titanium give a gold tone. If my memory is correct, Titanium and Methane gives a purple hue. Different combinations can give you silver, black, red, etc.
 
Try calling Glock... :)

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Anarchism: The radical notion that I am the sole authority when it comes to deciding what's best for me.
 
Hi Greg,

Try hard chrome. I have a custom Lightweight Commander that was hardchromed in 1995 with a brushed finish by Checkmate. Very nice and durable as hell. I've dropped the gun a couple of times and carried it a whole lot in a Bianchi Belly Band, Ken Null IWB holster, and a crossdraw rig from Horseshoe. Lots of time in the leather and it still looks like it just came out of the UPS packaging.

- Anthony
 
Dear Slacko,
I would, of course, appreciate the services of Glock, Inc of Smyrna, however I plan to use this gun for self-defense. That being the case, the Glock, as anyone who has taken an honest glance at the net, firearms literature or just spent an afternoon or two at a gun shop that does Glock repairs can tell you, is not really a top-drawer handgun. However, there is a large segment of the gun-buying public that is convinced that their plastic-framed handgun with no real safety mode (I know, I know, that flimsey little doohickey in the middle of the trigger is the "saftey") is just as good, or better than more expensive offerings from Hk or Sig--among others. You can see this type of behavior in many other situations (my Ford Pinto with a 351 in it is better than your Porsche).

The Glock is what it is: a handgun designed to appeal to government entities looking to equip large numbers of people with a functional handgun at a low cost. Glock, it turns out, was fortunate enough to be marketing a cheap, high-capacity handgun that was simple enough for anyone to operate just when American handgun buyers were looking for one.

"Perfection," let us hope not--but it is probably good enough for government work.
 
Oh Greg, you really fly your elitist colors here!

Is the P7 70% better because it costs 70% more than a Glock? I think not. I have a friend like you... he used to like to buy expensive goods at retail, so he could brag about how much he paid.

I cannot imagine there is P7 in the WORLD which has lasted as long as Chuck Taylor's G17... 150,000 rounds and counting.

A fairer comparison might be a Porsche vs a Land Rover. The Land Rover will serve you faithfully in horrible conditions, as will the Glock. It may not look as sexy getting there, or have the cachet of that Porsche, but you still get there. And when the mud gets deep, that Porsche ain't going anywhere.

I actually like the P7, except
<LI>it's only a puny 9mm
<LI>after 50 fast rounds it gets too dang hot to hold
<LI>it's manual of arms is different than any other gun
<LI>it comes with a factory finish that sucks and has to be replaced right away
<LI>when you're clearing a house, and squeeze the grip, it goes CLICK, alerting the bad guy.

Other than that, it's great! PS: if you want to spend a lot of money and get something for it, buy a Les Baer 1911. Now THERE's a gun.



[This message has been edited by Covert Mission (edited July 20, 1999).]
 
The Glock may not be "top drawer", but I will continue to trust my life to it, because it has proven to me that it is reliable, accurate, durable, and concealable. What more could you possibly ask for? HK IMO does not make the best guns ever. IMO the USP is the first gun they did right. The P7 overheats easily and requires a totally different manual of arms. Their assualt rifles and sub guns, can't take a lot of shooting sans cleaning. The P9 was OK but too big and clunky. The VP70 is probably one of the better machine pistols except that it can't fire full auto without the stock, and sucks as a semi auto pistol. The USP IMO was HKs first step in the right direction, yeah I prefer my Glocks over it, because I don't personally care for DA guns, but I don't see any flaws in the design. Although one may consider the fact that the compacts won't accept full sized mags a flaw. It's also the first HK handgun that isn't dog ugly. Glocks may not be "top drawer" but neither is HK by any means, IMO.
 
When Glocks start selling their plastic and metal stamped guns at a fair market value (about $129), I'll be the first one to go down and pick up a couple of them.
Durability? Any gun should last a couple of hundred thousand rounds. You replace the mags and springs as they wear out and keep going. There are revolutionary war muskets that shot highly corrosive black powder that are still functional today. I've got a sporterized Mauser in my gun cabinet thats gone through two world wars and 40 years of deer hunting through who knows how many owners, thats as tight as the day it was made.
The issue is why plunk down $400 to $500 on a gun thats made of plastic and metal stampings and costs only a couple bucks to produce when you can buy a milled steel pistol for the same price?
Why encourage that sort of gouging? Plastic isn't "High-Tech", its just cheap.


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Keith
The Bears and Bear Maulings Page: members.xoom.com/keithrogan
 
I have had several types of pistols over the last few years and have found good and bad things about all of them. I have a hard time understanding why so many people have such a venomous hate for glocks? I have one that has worked flawlessly for me and is one of the better guns that I own. While the glock I own is not my favorite pet (Springfield) it is the gun that I reach for when something goes bump in the night because it has never failed to go bang when the trigger is pulled. While the glock is not my favorite gun it is dependable, accurate and if I could only have one handgun for pure self defense it would be the one. Also from what I have seen most of the problems that occur with glocks are the same problems for other pistols. Owner stupidity, cheap after marker parts, ect... I shot with one guy whose glock jammed on every clip. He was cussing the gun and I offered to take a look at it for him. When I took it down the gun was not only the most filthy pistol I have ever seen but was completely unlubricated. When I pointed out the problems the guy commented that he had been told that glocks did not need to be cleaned until 1000 plus rounds and did not need to be lubricated!!! After I gave him some MP7 cleaner and showed him how lube the gun it fired without a hiccup. In all fairness to the guy he was new to guns in general and had bought the gun used without a manual but I believe that many of the problems glocks have are the same problems that plague many guns, their owners.

[This message has been edited by Keeper (edited July 21, 1999).]
 
Actually, Tennifer is the toughest finish available, but it is not available as an "aftermarket" option.... Of course, this conversation has turned from Finishes to overall quality.. and I feel compelled to point out that it is a newP7 owner who is looking for an aftermarket finish! Could anyone imagine a guy buying a $500 Glock and thinking he needs a new "better" finish?? ;)
 
Rob,
I am in total agreement about the stock HK finish--not very durable. However, as far as quality--take note:

1. The HK does not explode! Sorry, this is important to me.
2. Go look at Glock talk--everybody is replacing springs, mag releases, etc. Take a look at the M8, other than the finish, it is perfect. What would you do? The trigger pull is miles ahead of the Glock's, the gun is flatter and generally more concealable than any Glock other than the absurdly awful sub-compacts. Other than capacity, which is rapidly becoming a moot point (I am not paying 50-100 for a flimsy Glock Hi-cap mag made 6 years ago--at least), the Glock has nothing going for it, other than its finish. Wow! You can leave it in the mud!
3. Fit and feel. The Glock feels like a toy. In fact, the trigger has the feel of a cap pistol. And durability, well, all of us who are honest know that Glocks just aren't up to snuff. The gun may not rust, but as far as parts breakage, it is a loser. One of the most common things out of one of my local dealer's mouth is "it only costs a dollar!(for some Glock part)" Well, that's great except the pistol wasn't supposed to break in the first place.
 
Greg,

Admit it. You are in DENIAL!

The local indoor range I frequent has a large rental pool of MANY makes of gun. They tell me that, bar none, the Glock is the most reliable gun they rent, and theirs have far more rounds through them than many of the other brands (due to the popularity of the Glock). In fairness, they say good things about the HK, and the USP in particular.

I like the P7. Feels great, looks great, super accurate, a unique safety feature, and is different from the pack. An all-steel gun is always going to feel more substantial (read: heavy) than a hybrid. Some people equate that with quality. I have a Les Baer... a superb gun. I love the feel of it, the look, etc. I don't love it more than my Glocks, but love them both for different reasons.

You are daring to be different, and that's great. Maybe someday, given some extra dough, I'll add a P7 to the stable (I wish the .40 wasn't such a tank). Speaking of dough, the one point here I'll agree with wholeheartedly is: the Glock is overpriced. No question that we civilian buyers are subsidizing the low prices that Glock offers to LE agencies. How much too much, I don't know. Of course, you could maybe say this about other makes too... Beretta, maybe Sig, and others. It's a cruel world.

PS: something's puzzling me. I know how to do the smiley faces on Glocktalk... there's a button to bring up the code menu. how do you do it here? thanks


[This message has been edited by Covert Mission (edited July 21, 1999).]
 
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