What is the range etiquette for this?

Dashunde said:
...this type of boisterous nonsense flies in the face of "an armed society is a polite society", even if the "society" amounts to 4 people in a particular locale,...
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Lots of things fly in the face of cliches that come from a sci-fi book about a fictional society where dueling over slights of honor is legal.

I'm not a confrontational type but I most certainly would not have left. I'd have told the guy that it was MY brass and I'd be calling the police and then video taping his actions and license plate number if he continued.

Being polite is not the same thing as being someone's door mat.
 
Your missing the point... you pull out a phone to record his actions, and the looney brass rat might pull out a gun a shoot you and your kid.

Like I said, I understand and agree with the principle of it all, I'm certainly no door mat, just ask my wife!

I'm saying that within the context of the OP, keep the kid safe first, worry about rudeness and brass second.
 
I know its not the same thing, but I read lots of comments like " once it hits the ground its fair game" and I think I also saw "if its outside its public property" one thing id have had to say about one of those is my vehicle is also on public property but I still own it. What I do not own is the land it sits on, that is what is meant by "pubic property". It has nothing to do with ownership of what lands on it. Only ownership of the land itself. I saw someone at my range with one of those pole-grabbers picking up everyones brass. The thing that bothered me about it was that he wasn't even shooting, just filling up a bucket of empty brass. I did not shoot on the range he was doing this at because I save my brass also (and I pick it up when no one else is there). I wondered about this same thing at that time what I might have had to say to that guy if it came to it. Sure hate to have to escalate on what would otherwise be such a small matter at a place where people are trying to shoot.
 
I agree with most in that if at first a polite response didn't work, then you should stand your ground and then DEMAND he stop, or have the police called on him if he decides to still take your brass. The fact of the matter is that you purchased that ammo, and that brass is yours, doesn't matter if it hits the floor or not. If you drop your cellphone at the range, does that mean its available for the public to take? no. Same thing with anything you own, doesn't matter how big or small. If you own something and someone takes it without your consent then its theft.
 
Police? These unsupervised ranges are some 30 minutes from most (county) sheriff's departments.
They'll spend more in fuel just getting there than the brass is worth.

I live in a new neighborhood with constant construction. Just this weekend there was a Uhaul van driving around filling up ALL of the (7-8) dumpsters with useless furniture and junk, the cops were called... they never did show up.
Any of you really think the cops will come running over your snatched brass????? Get real.
 
Well, I suppose you're right. After thinking about it, it's probably not worth calling the police. If the guy became unruly though that's a different story.
 
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I would have beat him up stole his car drive it in a lake then go get my car and leave like nothing happened... But that's just me :)

Or i would remind him it's bad to steal from a man with a gun
 
It was your property and that man was stealing it,,,
Etiquette does not apply when dealing with a common thief.

Kick his ass giving your daughter a class on handling rude creeps.
 
Being polite is not the same thing as being someone's door mat.
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This!
Always start out firm, but polite & increase the pressure in controlled levels as appropriate.
Every time you let someone like this get away with something like this you enable them to do it again.:rolleyes:
 
Most people would stop at the threat of LE, you wouldn't need to actually call. Besides, not everyone lives where the cops don't show up when called. I've never heard of such a thing around here. It might be 30 minutes or 45 for a non emergency but they'll get there. Really doesn't matter how long it is, you've got it on camera.
 
So far this discussion has been 100% one sided. I would like to hear some opinions from those who collect brass at ranges and think its justified in picking up any brass that hits the ground, assuming the firing line is cold.

Here are some thoughts contrary to those already expressed:

1. Is it really stealing if you are picking up spent brass when a shooter goes to change his target? You are not interfering with anyone's shooting or creating a dangerous situation.

2. If spent brass is important to a shooter, wouldn't that be the first thing he/she picks up when the line goes cold? At what point is it "fair game" to pick up another shooter's spent brass?

3. What if your firearms throws brass several benches from where you are shooting? If I'm at my bench shooting a .22 and your Mini-14 is throwing .223 brass right on top of me, should I be able to keep it?

4. Don't they make brass catchers for people who want to save their brass?

5. Should people who don't use brass catchers be charged a "waste fee" for leaving shells behind. I know that when I'm shooting, I'm sure there are lots of shells that I miss picking up. Maybe the guy picking up brass should have a "tip jar". What do y'all think?
 
I can address 1 and 2 as they applied to the experience I sited. When I carefully keep track of my brass putting each spent round back in a shell holder and leave it on my shooting bench with the rest of my ammo and firearms and you wait for me to walk away and then take it- you have stolen from me. I don't want some random jack wagon touching ANYTHING on my bench, let alone TAKING some of it just because it's used. The man in question was openly treated as unwelcome by just about every shooter out there. He wasn't shooting, just scavenging. And he was too bold about it. Theft is theft, no matter what it is.
 
1. Is it really stealing if you are picking up spent brass when a shooter goes to change his target? You are not interfering with anyone's shooting or creating a dangerous situation.

2. If spent brass is important to a shooter, wouldn't that be the first thing he/she picks up when the line goes cold? At what point is it "fair game" to pick up another shooter's spent brass?

3. What if your firearms throws brass several benches from where you are shooting? If I'm at my bench shooting a .22 and your Mini-14 is throwing .223 brass right on top of me, should I be able to keep it?

4. Don't they make brass catchers for people who want to save their brass?

5. Should people who don't use brass catchers be charged a "waste fee" for leaving shells behind. I know that when I'm shooting, I'm sure there are lots of shells that I miss picking up. Maybe the guy picking up brass should have a "tip jar". What do y'all think?
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and all of this strikes me as rationalizing what you know is wrong. If you have to ask if it is "really stealing" then the answer is YES.

If someone LEAVES the range and their brass remains, then it is abandoned. Until then, it's pretty damned presumptuous to take anything without asking for permission.
 
Skans said:
So far this discussion has been 100% one sided. I would like to hear some opinions from those who collect brass at ranges and think its justified in picking up any brass that hits the ground, assuming the firing line is cold.

Here are some thoughts contrary to those already expressed:

1. Is it really stealing if you are picking up spent brass when a shooter goes to change his target? You are not interfering with anyone's shooting or creating a dangerous situation.

2. If spent brass is important to a shooter, wouldn't that be the first thing he/she picks up when the line goes cold? At what point is it "fair game" to pick up another shooter's spent brass?

3. What if your firearms throws brass several benches from where you are shooting? If I'm at my bench shooting a .22 and your Mini-14 is throwing .223 brass right on top of me, should I be able to keep it?

4. Don't they make brass catchers for people who want to save their brass?

5. Should people who don't use brass catchers be charged a "waste fee" for leaving shells behind. I know that when I'm shooting, I'm sure there are lots of shells that I miss picking up. Maybe the guy picking up brass should have a "tip jar". What do y'all think?
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I have to assume you're playing devil's advocate, here.

1) Of course it's really stealing. What is the justification for assuming that someone no longer owns something that's on the ground? They haven't abandoned it. They're still here.

2)If your watch fell on the ground and you didn't pick it up before you went to change targets, is it fair game? Stuff is fair game when it's reasonably assumed to be intentionally abandoned. Folks abandon brass at the range all the time, by leaving it on the ground and DRIVING AWAY. when their stuff is still there, it's not abandoned.

3)Guns that throw brass 3 lanes over are another matter of range etiquette but my watch is still my watch if I drop it and then accidentally kick it 3 lanes over when I go to pick it up. Why isn't my brass still mine? I never knew ownership had a distance limit.

4)Yes. Are they required to retain ownership?

5)Another matter of range etiquette.
 
1. Is it really stealing if you are picking up spent brass when a shooter goes to change his target? You are not interfering with anyone's shooting or creating a dangerous situation.

Yes it is petty theft. It doesn't matter where the shooter is on the range, he can tidy up before leaving. Its still his property till he leaves the range abandoning it. Theft is defined as "Removing anothers property with the intent to deprive them of its use". It it utterly separate from interference with shooting or safety issues its about taking someone elses property without, or against his consent. If you do it its thieving & you are a thief.

2. If spent brass is important to a shooter, wouldn't that be the first thing he/she picks up when the line goes cold? At what point is it "fair game" to pick up another shooter's spent brass?

Again utterly irrelevant. When & how the shooter collects his brass is his concern, no-one else's. If the shooter has permanently left the range then its abandoned & fair game, but not until then.


3. What if your firearms throws brass several benches from where you are shooting? If I'm at my bench shooting a .22 and your Mini-14 is throwing .223 brass right on top of me, should I be able to keep it?

Nope! You're still "removing it with the intent to deprive him of its use", its still thieving & you're still a thief. You should mention to the inconsiderate shooter that he is pelting you with hot brass & can he please do something about it so that you are not inconvenienced by his thoughtlessness. That's it though you get diddly/squat in compensation to justify thieving & so you're still a thief.

4. Don't they make brass catchers for people who want to save their brass?

Yes.
However there is no requirement to use them. You're still confusing poor range etiquette by the shooter & the criminal act of theft.

5. Should people who don't use brass catchers be charged a "waste fee" for leaving shells behind. I know that when I'm shooting, I'm sure there are lots of shells that I miss picking up. Maybe the guy picking up brass should have a "tip jar". What do y'all think?

I think you're completely missing the point that my property isn't yours you didn't work for it, you didn't pay for it & I owe you absolutely nothing by using it no matter how many excuses you come up with to try justifying petty thieving by a petty thief. If I permanently abandon it, or offer it to you then it becomes yours. If you ask me if I want it & I say "no" then it becomes yours as I've abandoned it. Other than that it isn't yours, wont become yours & never was yours.
 
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Truth-be-told... I probably wouldnt do anything with my daughter there, not going to put her at risk over spent brass.
Making a point to this guy over a couple bucks worth of brass isnt worth the potential risk to my kid if it got ugly.
Choose your battles with idiot people.
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I used to spend a lot of time fishing with my dad, and he wouldn't let someone walk all over him, especiallyif I was there. We saw plenty of ugly situations, and the old man never backed down. I learned from his example.

So far this discussion has been 100% one sided. I would like to hear some opinions from those who collect brass at ranges and think its justified in picking up any brass that hits the ground, assuming the firing line is cold.

Here are some thoughts contrary to those already expressed:

1. Is it really stealing if you are picking up spent brass when a shooter goes to change his target? You are not interfering with anyone's shooting or creating a dangerous situation.

2. If spent brass is important to a shooter, wouldn't that be the first thing he/she picks up when the line goes cold? At what point is it "fair game" to pick up another shooter's spent brass?

3. What if your firearms throws brass several benches from where you are shooting? If I'm at my bench shooting a .22 and your Mini-14 is throwing .223 brass right on top of me, should I be able to keep it?

4. Don't they make brass catchers for people who want to save their brass?

5. Should people who don't use brass catchers be charged a "waste fee" for leaving shells behind. I know that when I'm shooting, I'm sure there are lots of shells that I miss picking up. Maybe the guy picking up brass should have a "tip jar". What do y'all think?
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I know you're playing devil's advocate here, but I doubt very many actual devils are going to chime in. If someone doesn't want his brass, you can always ask. If someone is firing a semi-auto, that's the nature of the beast. If you have a problem with it, ask the guy to switch lanes, or wear a hat.
 
I think you're completely missing the point that my property isn't yours you didn't work for it, you didn't pay for it & I owe you absolutely nothing by using it no matter how many excuses you come up with to try justifying petty thieving by a petty thief. If I permanently abandon it, or offer it to you then it becomes yours. If you ask me if I want it & I say "no" then it becomes yours as I've abandoned it. Other than that it isn't yours, wont become yours & never was yours.
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When you fire off a round in any semi-auto firearm (assuming no brass catcher), TWO things hit the dirt: 1) the shell and 2) the bullet. Hardly anyone ever mines the berm to retrieve valuable lead. And, many people have no interest in taking their brass. Why is it automatically "thieving" if someone retrieves brass off the ground, when it generally wouldn't be thieving if (against you, the shooter) if someone mines the berm? Also, wouldn't the range rules factor in? If the range rules say: Any brass that hits the ground is no longer the property of the shooter - do you still claim its yours?
 
If the range rules say: Any brass that hits the ground is no longer the property of the shooter - do you still claim its yours?
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I have other options so if that was the case I would not use that range.

I have been at trap competitions that say you can not pick up any hull or loaded shell that hits the ground. But I have only run into that at competitions.
 
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