What is the perfect Gun Store?

this is the big one for me.....don't charge me ten bucks to do a NICS check. that was a new thing that occurred over the panic and it seems just about everyone has adopted the rude and ridiculous practice. I no longer buy guns from anyone that does that, just out of principle and I have ccw so I don't pay anyhow.
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Doesn't matter in some states, FL being one. Their system is a state system and they charge the dealer $5 for the call and check.
 
Living in a part of rural PA with dozens of gun stores within an hour' drive in any direction, I have witnessed the good and the bad. First, with this much competition, the bad either close their doors quickly or change. The good exist and many make quite a bit of money.

But the perfect gun store? After being in business for many years, the perfect gun store closed a couple of decades ago. That was Dave Manley's Gun Shop, located in Brookville, PA. Very well equipped with guns of all makes and well equipped with a sufficient number of sales staff. What made this shop perfect? Great pricing certainly was nice. One of the best selection of reloading gear & components also helped. Pleasant and very knowledgeable sales staff really was nice (seemed you never had to wait, no matter how busy the store was). But what made the store perfect was that when you bought a firearm there, you didn't leave with the gun, until you knew how to use the gun. You were shown everything there was, as far as proper loading, safety position, etc. In fact, if you were to buy a gun like a muzzleloader, you not got only instructions, but also a "mimeographed" copy of Dave's personal instructions.
 
Most of these posts are pretty spot on...I'll add a few ideas of my own.

Inviting exterior: think about how your store presents itself from the road and as you drive up. Will both introverts and extroverts, new and experience, young and old feel welcomed enough to come in?

Interior exploration: Will the interior make people want to look around, but not "hang out".

Professional sales staff: honestly, these are your front line be face of the business. Really scrutinize these folks. Yes, pay commissions. Teach them the value of making a customer and turning away folks that are "hanging out" telling sniper stories from a war that never happened. Also, require accuracy in their product knowledge. Test and audit this.

Have private rooms: you can tell some customers are ready to buy. A private room that they can try out guns, holsters with the advice of a sales person bringing guns to them is often a better match. They can ask questions they might fear asking at the counter.

Product selection: how can I say this....drive your clientele by your products. Don't carry HiPoints and nylon holsters, if you want good customers. I know it is hard, but bring in examples of custom leatherwork for order or sale. Carry premium guns and optics....they are what brings folks in. Balance out your 1911 collection. Don't fall into the trap of a half case full of Glocks and Kimbers. Basically, think about how each product represents your vision, down to stocking Weaponshield over cheap FP10 or Fenix over cheap flashlights, etc

Don't be afraid to move product online to keep your shelves rotating stock.
 
Does the OP have training in running a small business, understand personnel policies, taxes, finance, etc.?

I have seen two fancy gun stores in San Antonio go belly up as they did not understand basic business models.

If one doesn't have such training, one needs a partner or consultant with such. Asking internet folks what to stock is insufficient.

There are industry magazines and sources. The NRA has range hints. Shootingindustry.com is an industry source with references for how to run a business. You need a professional look at what sells and not a fan survey.

Aficionados of an area - be it fancy food, books, cameras, coins and stamps, bikes, etc. -open stores and fail. The rate of failure of new businesses is very, very high. Folks sink their life savings and that's that.

Not to be downers but this is a caution.
 
Product selection: how can I say this....drive your clientele by your products. Don't carry HiPoints and nylon holsters, if you want good customers. I know it is hard, but bring in examples of custom leatherwork for order or sale. Carry premium guns and optics....they are what brings folks in. Balance out your 1911 collection. Don't fall into the trap of a half case full of Glocks and Kimbers. Basically, think about how each product represents your vision, down to stocking Weaponshield over cheap FP10 or Fenix over cheap flashlights, etc
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So your perfect gun store is a gun snob's paradise. You are describing a store I would never consider. I want a store where there is variety from the cheap to the expensive. You would have to sell at lot of overpriced products to pay the bills for such an exclusive store. The places that could afford this kind or store are mostly in places where guns aren't welcome. New York, New Jersey and California come to mind. The people who could afford to shop in your perfect gun store already have armed bodyguards.
 
What I've seen across the thread is a vast misunderstanding of how the business works.

You need to know your clientele, and you need to cater to them. That means providing goods and services that will generate profit.

Sorry, but that doesn't come by paying top dollar for inventory that sits in a case for people to peruse. It doesn't come from having a fondue bar that encourages people to mill around and socialize. It doesn't come by being filling everyone's personal checklist of things they think you should have but never buy.

It comes from focus. If your clientele are trap shooters, stock that stuff. There's no point in having the newest $4000 whiz-bang AR-15 if it's not going to sell. If you're in an urban area, self-defense will be a more realistic focus. Barrett rifles and Korth revolvers are going to collect dust and drain capital.

The public expects product at single-digit margins over wholesale. If you're going to fulfill that expectation, you'll need to be very careful about how you structure your business.
 
but I respect the places that at least try and don't gouge too bad. I went a range yesterday that was selling all the regular powders for 40$ a freakin pound..
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And maybe they were able to score some powder at high prices themselves and are providing them as a courtesy to their patrons, even if higher than YOU think s reasonable.

Walking across the desert, how much is a chunk of gold worth compared to a gallon of water? Not knowing the store, just suggesting a possibility as to why their price is what it is.

There is no gouging - you either agree to their asking price or you walk away; therefore you aren't being gouged in either situation.
 
Id like a gun store where the firearms are not hung on the wall 8 ft behind a counter where you cant tell the caliber or read the micro fine print on the price tag.

The stand up cases with the wheel to turn the rack like Walmart used to have are some of the best IMO for customers.

If they are hung on the wall the tags with caliber and price should be able to read from the customers side of the counter.
 
Don't carry HiPoints and nylon holsters, if you want good customers.
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I would agree with nylon holsters. Who here has a nylon holster they use? I have several I got in trade and all are absolutely awful.
As for the hi-point, you won't get me as a customer with a no hi-point policy. Of course I already said the transfer specialist is best for me. My last 4473 was at a sports card trading store. Absolutely no firearms inventory. Worked pretty well for me.
 
Had a heartbreaking conversation with a friend a few days ago. She teaches entry-level classes in another part of the country, and offers personal firearms coaching as well.

One of her newest clients was a woman who had an immediate, serious need: her violently abusive ex-boyfriend was slated to get out of prison the next day -- years ahead of time -- and she knew he'd be coming after her. She was terrified. And she'd never owned a gun in her life, nor shot one.

So she went to her local gun store, told them her story, and bought the gun that the guy behind the counter recommended for her. Then she called my friend for some one-on-one instruction. My friend gave her a rough rundown of the basics, using a dummy gun for illustrative purposes.

When they pulled out the new gun that the gun shop had recommended for a terrified new shooter who had an immediate self defense need, they found that this woman literally could not pull the heavy trigger on her brand new gun. She just did not have the hand strength to do it.

This kind of stupidity and thoughtlessness at the point of sale -- for someone in crisis! -- is enough to make an angel weep.

My ideal local gun shop would

  • encourage their salespeople shoot various types of guns (in all sizes and weights and in as many different calibers as possible), for the same reasons that good restaurants encourage their waitstaff to sample the entire menu so they'll be able to make informed recommendations to diners;
    .
  • teach every person who works the counter how to assess hand/gun fit for pistol shooters, including the all-important question of whether the customer would be able to move the trigger (and never sell a gun to anyone who cannot reach critical controls or move the trigger back using only the index finger);
    .
  • have a knowledgeable, good instructor on speed dial -- someone fully qualified to take a frightened new shooter and give them a fast track to building the most critical survival skills in the shortest possible time, and recommend that every new shooter contact that instructor as soon as they reasonably can; and
    .
  • Never, ever, ever, EVER recommend a DAO snub-nosed revolver to a new shooter (even one who happens to be a woman), unless there's literally no other choice that the new shooter will accept. Snubbies are experts' guns, not great for beginners and especially ungood for women with limited hand strength.

As the first point of contact between new gun owners and the rest of the shooting community, people working the counters in local gun stores play a critical role in how people choose their firearms, and an even more critical role in what new shooters do next.

Based on that initial experience, does the new shooter decide to learn more about guns, and become a safe, serious, responsible gun owner who can carry the torch for the next generation? Or do they instead have a negative experience, and decide that gun ownership isn't for them -- or worse, that they will own guns but never really learn anything more about how to use them safely and well?

Does the new shooter meet someone behind the counter who welcomes them into the community of gun owners as a fellow traveler, or someone who's just trying to make a sale? Do they meet someone who cares about the end user and can help them meet the needs they bring into the store with them, or do they meet a callously misinformed salesperson who's more interested in repeating old myths than in helping the customer find what he or she needs?

Does the new shooter always meet someone who knows what they're doing behind that counter? If not, why not?

pax
 
Excellent post - I think after reading this, that every store should have an expert person on gender issues and/or a training program to make most of the staff expert.

They should all have to take the CCAT (Cornered Cat aptitude test).
 
To Pax: just a weird question on the motives of the gun store, and that it "do you think the gun store did that two fold, by which to make the lady learn to shoot the gun and also to be a deterrent to her to not easily shoot first and ask questions later?

I had something happen to me a year or two back. Though we live in a "better" neighborhood, there is a house that was given to the residents and their habits are less than savory. I don't interact with them and they say away from me. Neighbors across the street from me (doctor and his wife) are nice people, though the wife can be like Mrs. Kravitz from "Bewitched". She came over one day, kabitizing about the goings on and said she wanted to buy a Glock to protect herself from the neighbors. Now bear in mind, this is not a woman that does anything for herself, and would tire almost instantly of learning anything about shooting any weapon (she had never shot a gun).

I told her to not buy a firearm, that if she felt unsafe to make two calls: first to the police and second to me. Our house is directly across the street from hers and about the same distance from the people she's worried about. I wasn't worried about her shooting too quickly: I was concerned about her shooting herself! She could walk into any gun store and easily pass any background check, but the purchase would most likely end up never shot, forgotten in some drawer, most probably loaded, until sometime someone (her maybe) moves it, or comes across it accidentally. The a problem is waiting to happen.

Gun owners have a responsibility to protect our rights. Just because you can own a gun, doesn't mean you should, until you understand those responsibilities.

Incidentally, she did not buy a Glock or any gun. I brought the topic up a couple of weeks later and she had no recollection whatsoever of suggesting she wanted a gun.
 
Tony Z - I wouldn't want to speculate as to motives, not having been a fly on the wall during the purchase. But I'm inclined to think it was simply ignorance (or a make-the-sale-based oversight) by a salesperson who simply didn't realize that many women can't manipulate a heavy DA trigger.

Sure would be a shame if someone who had an immediate need for a defensive weapon were simply tricked into getting one that (if worse came to worst) she could never use to save her life, simply based on someone else's idea of whether she'd do the work of learning to use it well.

pax
 
Can't answer that either Pax! Neither of us were there and we don't know what the woman said to the clerk! I would find it odd that any gun shop sales person worth their salt would pick a gun out for a total newbie, without that the newbie at least handling the gun.
 
My perfect store was one that so many other customers hated for how they treated customers. Strangely enough, I was not treated poorly at all, and became close friends to several who worked there. Even put in part time hours helping them out on weekends.

It wasn't that the employees were friends, the honesty and advice I got when selecting which gun to buy, and how much to pay is what made me loyal to that shop.

I also understood that I couldnt always be guaranteed a smoking deal, but over the years the discounts I was given (without asking for that matter), more than made up for the times I did pay a little more for something. They also were generous when I would do a trade in, and I often got back exactly what i paid, because they were able to put the guns I was trading up on auction sites and get me the most out of it.

That is what made that gun store 'Perfect' for me.
 
Tony Z - I wouldn't want to speculate as to motives, not having been a fly on the wall during the purchase. But I'm inclined to think it was simply ignorance (or a make-the-sale-based oversight) by a salesperson who simply didn't realize that many women can't manipulate a heavy DA trigger.
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I haven't run across one who couldn't, and I would think if they are that weak or disabled in some way, they also wouldn't be able to operate a slide.

If the woman was insistant that she had to have a handgun that day, it's not the shop's fault she bought one she couldn't really handle.

I suspect there are details being left out of this story
 
Snyper,

I've been shooting for 15 years, teaching at the professional level for 12 years, and running my own shooting school for 3 years now.

In all that time, I have literally never met a healthy adult woman who cannot be taught to rack a slide -- nearly all with less than 5 minutes of instruction in the easiest ways to do it. This includes a depressingly large number of women who had been told or honestly believed that they just weren't strong enough to rack the slide. When shown how, the lightbulb went on and they were fine. Racking the slide isn't about strength. It's entirely about technique.

I've also met probably three dozen women who did not have the hand strength to pull a DA trigger with just the index finger. Maybe more. It's not that uncommon. Even more common is the woman who can pull the trigger just a few times -- slowly and with effort -- but is unable to fire the gun more than 10 times in a row. That's obviously a detriment to regular, meaningful practice and as I said, it's surprisingly common.

Unlike racking the slide, pulling the trigger is a matter of strength. There are technique workarounds we can use: cock the hammer before firing (not useful for self defense for a whole bunch of good reasons), use two fingers (ditto), hold the gun a bit lower on the grip (increases leverage but also increases felt recoil), etc. Nearly all of these technique tweaks are contra-indicated for self defense, and every one of them provides very limited advantages.

We can of course lighten the trigger mechanically by taking it to a gunsmith. But there's a case of diminishing returns there, too -- somewhat literally, as you'll sacrifice either the gun's reliability or its speed (or both) to get the DA trigger as light as many of these women need.

DAO revolvers generally suck for people with weak hands, and there's very little we can do either instructionally or mechanically, to change that.

As for the details left out of the story, sure there are. That was deliberate, because I will not violate anyone's trust when they confide in me. The broad outlines are accurate and true and no relevant details are missing.

(Oh, not the gunshop's fault: there's fault and then there's fault. This newbie did not know that she should dry fire the gun to check her ability to move the trigger before purchase, nor did she know that triggers come in different weights. Salesguy was only interested in making a sale. If it were my mom or my daughter or my niece making that purchase, you bet I'd be angry at the callous indifference toward her needs. And even as a mostly disinterested third party, I'd never send another customer to that store. What else are they callously indifferent about?)

pax
 
As for the details left out of the story, sure there are. That was deliberate, because I will not violate anyone's trust when they confide in me. The broad outlines are accurate and true and no relevant details are missing.
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The details missing are what went on at the store.
There's no reason to assume they did anything wrong without evidence


Unlike racking the slide, pulling the trigger is a matter of strength. There are technique workarounds we can use: cock the hammer before firing (not useful for self defense for a whole bunch of good reasons), use two fingers (ditto), hold the gun a bit lower on the grip (increases leverage but also increases felt recoil), etc. Nearly all of these technique tweaks are contra-indicated for self defense, and every one of them provides very limited advantages.
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Getting the gun to fire is also "technique".

Even more common is the woman who can pull the trigger just a few times -- slowly and with effort -- but is unable to fire the gun more than 10 times in a row.
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That's probably what happened at the store.

The only "foolish" thing about this story is arming an inexperienced woman and expecting her to be able to defend herself less than 24 hours later

Nearly all of these technique tweaks are contra-indicated for self defense, and every one of them provides very limited advantages.
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They all work, whether they are "ideal" or not.

The other option in the scenario is send her home with another gun she won't know how to operate either
 
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