What is keeping everyone here from calling themselves libertarians?

They've been around for 30 years. What have they accomplished in that time? A bare handful of state reps, not a single state senator or any national office. Yet they continue to throw away money, time, and effort on running no-named nobodys with no chance for president every four years. If they used that capital on local and state elections instead, they'd have actually won some, and over the years would have built a base.
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Bingo.

You can have the best ideas in the world, but if you don't get yourself to the level you need to be at to implement those ideas, you are never going anywhere.

Why even run for president? How many congressional seats do they hold? How many govenorships do they hold? How about mayors? You can't just jump in at the top, you need to work your way up. And they don't sem to realize this. Even if they did win the presidency, they would have a hard time doing anything with no one in congress.
 
The librarians are so far outside the bell curve
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:D Them and their lousy dooey decimal system.

Anyway, even though I believe that the Libertarians getting in the faces of the republicrats is our only hope, this is very correct:

Why even run for president? How many congressional seats do they hold? How many govenorships do they hold? How about mayors? You can't just jump in at the top, you need to work your way up. And they don't sem to realize this.
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Nail on the head. The Libertarians have GOT to get people in congress other than Ron Paul.

From the same paragraph, this quote is totally incorrect though:
Even if they did win the presidency, they would have a hard time doing anything with no one in congress.
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A Libertarian president could fix nearly EVERYTHING very easily (because fixing the federal tyranny only requires physically shutting most of it down) all without the marxist/globalists in congress. A libertarian president could do 90% of what needs to be done in the first 12 hours (which is precisely why the powers that be will never allow them in the debates):

1. Order all federal agencies, especially the social "security" admin, to erase all record of social "security" numbers. Freeze COLAS (cost of living adjustments) at year 2000 levels for current S.S. recipients and cease accepting ANY new applications.
2. Pardon all non violent drug offenders. Time spent 5 minutes.
3. Order U.S. troops in North Korea and Europe home and redeployed to the U.N. building to oversee it's permanent closing and expulsion from our nation.
4. Order Customs and BATFE to approve all firearm imports. Issue executive order to BATFE to permanently waive transfer taxes (after ordering them to wipe the computer database storing the illegal National Firearms Registry and Transfer Record).
5. Order the freezing of federal "aid" to foreign nations
6. Order the freezing of federal "aid" to states.
7. Immediately close (to start) the Federal Department of "education," the Federal dept of "transportation" (which doesn't trnasport anyone, only steals the gas tax and after administration waste, er, I mean costs, redistributes the pennies that are left to certain "needy" states).
8. Order the remaining federal "agencies" that I've left open to sell 50% of their passenger vehicle fleet and replace 10% of it with ONLY hydrogen fuel cell automobiles that are already on the market but no one is buying because there's not enough gas stations, which would be built (outside of one in washington D.C.) if the feds did this.
9. Reopen the compassionate IND program that daddy bush closed. Currently there are only 7 patients left who are still recieving marijuana cigarettes from the federal government. While I don't like the feds giving away cigarettes, it's a big and good thing a Libertarian pres could/would do without congress.
10. Close the ONDCP (the so called "drug czar," who is really just a minister of propaganda).
11. Order the IRS to start following the law or be declared enemy combatants.
12. Overthrow Castro for shooting down those civillian planes during the Klinton admin (a libertarian pres might not do this but I would)
 
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(after ordering them to wipe the computer database storing the illegal National Firearms Record and Transfer Record)
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Why is that illegal? Is it just a national registry of firearm owners or a system that associates serial numbers with the owners?
 
Why is that illegal? Is it just a national registry of firearm owners or a system that associates serial numbers with the owners?
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I'll answer that with a question. Does the FEDERAL government (which is heavily limited to only doing a handful of things legally by the constitution) have the authority to essentially invade your SOVEREIGN state, and your home and tell you, no FORCE YOU at the point of THEIR machine guns, to register, say, your pencils, and if you don't, haul you off to a gulag? How about a federal registry for certain alarm clocks, would that be constitutional? Of course not, and neither is an illegal registry of an item protected by the number TWO amendment in the bill of rights.

That registry, which was established when F.D.R. overthrew the constitution, has been used (shockingly) as a tool to ban POSSESSION of something protected by number two in the bill of rights (they illegally won't let you own what isn't registered, and slightly worse but a bigger insult, refuse to let you register a new one).
 
I just noticed something totally outrageous that I forgot to respond to:

Libertarians want total freedom from all responsiblity from others but want to do things that make themselves a burden to society.

Conservatives want to keep the freedoms we have and build a nation that respects those freedom to their fullest.
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That is an incredible and slanderous misstatement of libertarian goals. The writer has been probably hearing libertarian goals third hand, because if you read ANYTHING at lp.org, you'll notice that we libertarians never say anything close to wanting "total freedom from responsibility from others..." That statement has obvious reference to the war on americans possessing certain drugs. I would ask the writer to meet and get to know people who are addicts. I know and have known many who used their drug of choice, sometimes for years, never robbed anyone, never crashed a car in a DUI (like LEGAL users of alcohol do), in some cases WENT TO TREATMENT, and never cost "society" anything. I am stunned that the writer would use the phrase "burden to society." He clearly doesn't know the cost to society of jailing millions of non violent drug users. :rolleyes: Not to mention the cost to our former 4th, 5th, and 10th amendment protections from the federal storm troopers. Holy cow.

The statement on so called "conservatives" is scary in it's incorrectness. Every time I get a GOA email about the SPECIFICS that are in the so called "patriot" act that is about to be renewed, I am more convinced that "conservatives" are more eager to give endless powers to government than most liberals who are outside of the environmental nutjob camp. So called "conservatives" have taken leaps and bounds in the last 4 years in turning the F.B.I. into an illegal national police force. "Conservatives" in congress (and many ignorant juries) support the IRS and it's abusive daily illegal activities against americans (most of whom can't get decent legal representation).
 
To be honest my beef with conservatives and the myth that they want to protect freedoms stems strongly from their opposition to gay marriage. I still don't understand how anyone that cares about freedom could say to any two people "You're not allowed to be married because I say so." :confused: That just defeats the whole purpose of freedom.
 
To be honest my beef with conservatives and the myth that they want to protect freedoms stems strongly from their opposition to gay marriage.
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You do know that gay "marrage" wasn't made illegal by Bush or the republicans, it's ALWAYS been illegal since the founding of the republic, and for thousands of years of Western history too. And where were the democrats? They were in the majority for 38 years, where were these so-called champions of gay "marrage" then, where was Clinton during his eight years in office? Not to mention wherever the issue was put on the ballot, it was defeated by large margins.
 
I've been a Republican for a number of years ever since the Democrats left behind basic principles of fair governenace.

Why not libertarian? Because I understand the pitfalls of the commons, Darwin's and Locke's theories and the lessons of Animal Farm, most of which appear to escape most libs I know.
 
Whew! That is quite a list you have there MPA!

What does the Executive do? Constitutionally? He executes the laws (Art II sec 1).

1. Order all federal agencies, especially the social "security" admin, to erase all record of social "security" numbers. Freeze COLAS (cost of living adjustments) at year 2000 levels for current S.S. recipients and cease accepting ANY new applications.

Can't do this as it would violate several laws that Congress has passed.

2. Pardon all non violent drug offenders. Time spent 5 minutes.

Can do this, but only for Federal Offenders.

3. Order U.S. troops in North Korea and Europe home and redeployed to the U.N. building to oversee it's permanent closing and expulsion from our nation.

Can't do this as it would violate several laws that Congress has passed. (think treaties)

4. Order Customs and BATFE to approve all firearm imports. Issue executive order to BATFE to permanently waive transfer taxes (after ordering them to wipe the computer database storing the illegal National Firearms Registry and Transfer Record).

Can't do this as it would violate several laws that Congress has passed.

5. Order the freezing of federal "aid" to foreign nations

Can't do this as it would violate several laws that Congress has passed.

6. Order the freezing of federal "aid" to states.

Can't do this as it would violate several laws that Congress has passed.

7. Immediately close (to start) the Federal Department of "education," the Federal dept of "transportation" (which doesn't trnasport anyone, only steals the gas tax and after administration waste, er, I mean costs, redistributes the pennies that are left to certain "needy" states).

Can't do this as it would violate several laws that Congress has passed.

8. Order the remaining federal "agencies" that I've left open to sell 50% of their passenger vehicle fleet and replace 10% of it with ONLY hydrogen fuel cell automobiles that are already on the market but no one is buying because there's not enough gas stations, which would be built (outside of one in washington D.C.) if the feds did this.

Could possibly do this.

9. Reopen the compassionate IND program that daddy bush closed. Currently there are only 7 patients left who are still recieving marijuana cigarettes from the federal government. While I don't like the feds giving away cigarettes, it's a big and good thing a Libertarian pres could/would do without congress.

Could do this.

10. Close the ONDCP (the so called "drug czar," who is really just a minister of propaganda).

Can't do this as it would violate several laws that Congress has passed.

11. Order the IRS to start following the law or be declared enemy combatants.

Can't do this as it would violate several laws that Congress has passed, and theoretically, it is operating the way it is supposed to be.

12. Overthrow Castro for shooting down those civillian planes during the Klinton admin (a libertarian pres might not do this but I would)

Would need a congressional authorization to do this.
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So what could the President do? He could challenge each of the above in Court and get a ruling as to whehter or not Congress passed a constitutional law. What do you think the odds would be of the Court ruling that these are all constitutional laws? Hmmm?

The thing to remember, Laws are presumed constitutional until the Supreme COurt says they are not.
 
That is an incredible and slanderous misstatement of libertarian goals.

Stated goals and goals achieved with a party that wants a liberal drug policy are two different things. I am not going to waste your or my time trying to convince you that it is wrong because if you can't see how drugs have affected the country in a bad way then I can't change your mind. I don't care to anyway, I just stated an opinion.

I would ask the writer to meet and get to know people who are addicts.

Come on, at my age I have seen about every kind of drug addict there is and consider all of it a waste of life. I have seen people who have taken addiction all the way ruining their lives to suicide. You want to promote that?:confused:

Clearly the policy we have now doesn't work nor do I think society will ever let it as long as there are people who promote drugs as a normal lifestyle. This promotion of drugs is killing people everyday and to stand for it isn't a course I choose.

I am more convinced that "conservatives" are more eager to give endless powers to government than most liberals who are outside of the environmental nutjob camp.

Republicans yes, conservatives not hardly. I believe in the freedoms that I see as given us by God not legistlated by man. CONSERVATISM is about hanging on to values not giving government more power. If you give government more power you are a socialist.

Just because you say your a conservative doesn't mean you are as the Patriot act shows clearly.

My opinions, though you may not like them, are not outragous or slanderous like you stated and that is hardly a way to have a civil conversation. I don't like that behavior but I expect it because society has lost it's civility with the internet. No longer do you have to stand before someone and bravely speak your words and take your lumps so your words lose all meanings because since you are not here you don't exist. Neither your nor my words will mean a thing when the screen goes black:eek: :eek:


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A Libertarian president could fix nearly EVERYTHING very easily (because fixing the federal tyranny only requires physically shutting most of it down) all without the marxist/globalists in congress. A libertarian president could do 90% of what needs to be done in the first 12 hours (which is precisely why the powers that be will never allow them in the debates):
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As antipitas pointed out, the President does not have unlimited powers. It was set up this way for a reason. Yes, he could do many of the things on your list. But no, he could not just start declaring Congressional approved laws null and void.

With their parties in the majority, Clinton and Bush still had (and have) problems pushing through stuff they want. What is a complete independent with no congressional backing going to accomplish?

Take, for example, overthrowing Castro. Look at what Bush has to put up with, and he had approval from congress to do what he did. What happens when the President just ignores congress and sends troops into Cuba?
 
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