Samuel2001
New member
I DONT SMOKE POT!
I guess I cant be a Liberitarian.
I guess I cant be a Liberitarian.
What is keeping everyone here from calling themselves libertarians?
- Thread starter MasterPieceArms.com
- Start date
One way is what Antipitas said, and it may come down to that.
Another, is to work for incrimental change within the republican party. And while things on the national level might not be ideal with the party, they've been doing great work on the state level. And on the state level you can make a real difference, or even run yourself!
I can say this is true from personal experience, they don't do squat for their local/state candidates. Even worse, they expect you to help them by giving them your mailing list so they can hit up your supporters for cash. Not that you'd see a dime of it either.
jeff_troop
New member
agree. the democrats want the entire nation to turn into swirling haze of prancing homosexuals, antiwar rallys (even if there is not war), pot smokers and abstract artists (supported by gov funds).
oh yeah, and dumpsters full of dead, crack-ho mama, babies.
oh yeah, and dumpsters full of dead, crack-ho mama, babies.
For me, it all boils down to 2 things. No, make that 3 things:
But before I list them, just let me say that I was just about THIS CLOSE (fingers just barely apart) to signing up with the LP before 9/11.
And that leads me to my first point. Their stance on the WOT is just plain ignorant. They refuse to acknowledge that the world is a violent place loaded with people who hate us for what we are, and that trying to placate those people is a receipe for disaster.
Second, while I can agree with them on most points at an intellectual/theoretical level, it seems that they lack the maturity to recognize that the world does not always work on an intellectual/theoretical basis. It works on a practical basis, and their ideas, however noble, just won't work in the real world. Not the real world where people actually embrace socialism and terroristic barbarism. It requires pragmatic realism in the real world.
Third, political reality. I am not at all fond of SOME of the things that the Republican party seems to uphold. I am not at all fond of some of the actions of the Republicans. But I can live with them, nonetheless. However, I detest Democrats and other likeminded leftists, socialists and communists -- ah, but I repeat myself. It becomes a choice of the lesser of the 2 evils. One evil I can live with, one I just cannot. And I have the realization that if I chose to vote 3rd party, that my Libertarian/Conservative vote becomes negated, becoming in effect 1/2 of a vote for the Unredeemably Evil Party I so hate. I feel that Ross Perot and the Reform Party handed Bill the Clinton and the Demoncrats victory in 2 elections in just that manner. And just look at the damage that caused. Never again. Not my vote, anyway. I'll choose to work from within the ranks of the 'Pubs, attempting to steer them towards a more Classical Liberal stance, as I feel that is the more viable route towards Libertarianism.
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Oh, and now that I think of it, there is a fourth. When engaging in conversation with "true believer" Libertarians, it seems that they "require" one to be not so much atheist but anti-theist. Now, I can remain coldly logical and secular when dealing with the secular political realm, able to seperate by religious beliefs from my politics. But I am no atheist -- not by a long shot. Being labeled a heretic to libertarianism just because I am a believer is an immediate turn-off.
But before I list them, just let me say that I was just about THIS CLOSE (fingers just barely apart) to signing up with the LP before 9/11.
And that leads me to my first point. Their stance on the WOT is just plain ignorant. They refuse to acknowledge that the world is a violent place loaded with people who hate us for what we are, and that trying to placate those people is a receipe for disaster.
Second, while I can agree with them on most points at an intellectual/theoretical level, it seems that they lack the maturity to recognize that the world does not always work on an intellectual/theoretical basis. It works on a practical basis, and their ideas, however noble, just won't work in the real world. Not the real world where people actually embrace socialism and terroristic barbarism. It requires pragmatic realism in the real world.
Third, political reality. I am not at all fond of SOME of the things that the Republican party seems to uphold. I am not at all fond of some of the actions of the Republicans. But I can live with them, nonetheless. However, I detest Democrats and other likeminded leftists, socialists and communists -- ah, but I repeat myself. It becomes a choice of the lesser of the 2 evils. One evil I can live with, one I just cannot. And I have the realization that if I chose to vote 3rd party, that my Libertarian/Conservative vote becomes negated, becoming in effect 1/2 of a vote for the Unredeemably Evil Party I so hate. I feel that Ross Perot and the Reform Party handed Bill the Clinton and the Demoncrats victory in 2 elections in just that manner. And just look at the damage that caused. Never again. Not my vote, anyway. I'll choose to work from within the ranks of the 'Pubs, attempting to steer them towards a more Classical Liberal stance, as I feel that is the more viable route towards Libertarianism.
------------- added -------------
Oh, and now that I think of it, there is a fourth. When engaging in conversation with "true believer" Libertarians, it seems that they "require" one to be not so much atheist but anti-theist. Now, I can remain coldly logical and secular when dealing with the secular political realm, able to seperate by religious beliefs from my politics. But I am no atheist -- not by a long shot. Being labeled a heretic to libertarianism just because I am a believer is an immediate turn-off.
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Also because they are not a realistic choice. We have not actually lived in a democracy for quite a few years. More like a duocracy posing as a republic. Especially at the Presidential level. Your voting decision these days, sad to say, is limited to which of two party lines you want to support. It will be post revolution or post holocaust, in my opinion, before we see anyone elected to that high of an office who is not a pure democrat or pure republican. The way the people have allowed the support of the two party system to actually be legislated has assured this. And don't forget big media involvement, too. I can't say I've thoroughly studied campaign finance reform issues but my opinion is until the day when anyone who wants to run for an office (and meets certain legislated criteria) is given the same campaign budget as every other candidate, full equal time and focus in nationally televised debate, well then you will always see the democrat vs. the republican...cause that's where the money is!
Democrats want a utopia in which they can live a lifestyle without consequence for their actions and they want everyone else to pay for it.
Republicans want riches and the power that goes with it while not having anyone stand in their way as to how they make it.
Libertarians want total freedom from all responsiblity from others but want to do things that make themselves a burden to society.
Conservatives want to keep the freedoms we have and build a nation that respects those freedom to their fullest.
Just my opinion.
25
Republicans want riches and the power that goes with it while not having anyone stand in their way as to how they make it.
Libertarians want total freedom from all responsiblity from others but want to do things that make themselves a burden to society.
Conservatives want to keep the freedoms we have and build a nation that respects those freedom to their fullest.
Just my opinion.
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Wildalaska
Moderator
Common sense and moderation
WildcrankyAlaska
WildcrankyAlaska
MasterPieceArms.com
Moderator
Who said that moderation in temper is always a virtue but moderation in principle is always a vice? I think it was Thomas Paine
Maybe we can start the TFL party (we'll say it stand for Totally For Liberty so it doens't freak out anyone with the words Firing Line 
).
But, seriously, we really NEED another party to come up that people will vote for that holds Liberty and the Constitution as the base of the party.
We're being KILLED by this two party system and it's going to take America down. I'm surprised actually that there haven't been gun fights in the house/senate and White House as much as these people hate each other and will do anything, up to and including killing citizens, to get into power!
But sadly, it will be the "shadow government" that will bring down America. They are called the NEA, which is the Education Union, yes, the Union that your teachers belong to. They are dumbing down each generation to the point that it's going to destroy this great nation, and they get federal funding to do it!
I see it here, in our small community, the difference from the generation before mine, mine, and the generations coming up. With few exceptions, the new generation and many in mine are absolute idiots when it comes to the real world and what is going on.
I will tell you why I am a one issue voter, yeah, that kind. I vote on the issue of guns. Now I'll explain why:
We see which direction our great Nation is going. We see the abuses of all levels of governements each and every day. We try our best, through the means given us, to try to change it, but it just isn't changing.
So our last resort, hopefully we don't have to use, is another civil war, and this takes guns.
Without guns, the war cry will become, "Viva Americ.........." as those around the one(s) who bothered to cry the words are machine gunned down and buried in mass graves where they fell.
Am I paranoid? Am I a out of the mainstream? Am I just an idiot that shouldn't be allowed guns?
No, I don't think so. I just have my eyes open, I have studied history, America's and Europes, and I really don't like what I am seeing. Right now may not be the time to take any other action besides what we are doing now but I would hope that the option (guns) were still avaliable if, God forbid, it came to that.
I don't know how long the Roman Empire existed, I don't know how long the Russian Empire existed, I don't know how long British Empire existed, but all I do know is that the American Way (not an empire) is already on it's way to being doomed, in one form or the other
.
Wayne
).But, seriously, we really NEED another party to come up that people will vote for that holds Liberty and the Constitution as the base of the party.
We're being KILLED by this two party system and it's going to take America down. I'm surprised actually that there haven't been gun fights in the house/senate and White House as much as these people hate each other and will do anything, up to and including killing citizens, to get into power!
But sadly, it will be the "shadow government" that will bring down America. They are called the NEA, which is the Education Union, yes, the Union that your teachers belong to. They are dumbing down each generation to the point that it's going to destroy this great nation, and they get federal funding to do it!
I see it here, in our small community, the difference from the generation before mine, mine, and the generations coming up. With few exceptions, the new generation and many in mine are absolute idiots when it comes to the real world and what is going on.
I will tell you why I am a one issue voter, yeah, that kind. I vote on the issue of guns. Now I'll explain why:
We see which direction our great Nation is going. We see the abuses of all levels of governements each and every day. We try our best, through the means given us, to try to change it, but it just isn't changing.
So our last resort, hopefully we don't have to use, is another civil war, and this takes guns.
Without guns, the war cry will become, "Viva Americ.........." as those around the one(s) who bothered to cry the words are machine gunned down and buried in mass graves where they fell.
Am I paranoid? Am I a out of the mainstream? Am I just an idiot that shouldn't be allowed guns?
No, I don't think so. I just have my eyes open, I have studied history, America's and Europes, and I really don't like what I am seeing. Right now may not be the time to take any other action besides what we are doing now but I would hope that the option (guns) were still avaliable if, God forbid, it came to that.
I don't know how long the Roman Empire existed, I don't know how long the Russian Empire existed, I don't know how long British Empire existed, but all I do know is that the American Way (not an empire) is already on it's way to being doomed, in one form or the other
.Wayne
Double Naught Spy
New member
Wisdom.
jeff_troop
New member
i agree. i think the usa will go down in history as one of the shortest lived "empires" in human history. in the big picture of history we will be no more than a blip on the radar.
our reign as a world power didn't truly begin until the end of wwii. it is possible we won't even make it to 100 years before we slip from the top of the heap.
but we will always be remembered for the atomic bomb.
Politics being the art of the possible I have to side with the repubs who represent SOME of my positions whereas the demos represent NONE.
The librarians are so far outside the bell curve they are only a bit of minor static that I usually tune out. Very out of touch with reality. Hello - STAR TREK is not real, even if you can repeat the dialog from EVERY episode.
The statements of being socially libertarian are absolute dreck. Most are not willing to take the consequences of their behavior and society does not have enough money to pay for their experimentation.:barf:
The librarians are so far outside the bell curve they are only a bit of minor static that I usually tune out.
Very out of touch with reality. Hello - STAR TREK is not real, even if you can repeat the dialog from EVERY episode. The statements of being socially libertarian are absolute dreck. Most are not willing to take the consequences of their behavior and society does not have enough money to pay for their experimentation.:barf:
rep or dem
Im pretty new to the politics scene, ive only been paying attention to it since 9-11 but i know one darn thing, i would rather be classified as a moron than a democrat right now, and i am just talking about the things im seeing out of them these days, cause like i said i dont know much about the past as far as it all goes. I dont want to rag on Democrats personally but when the leaders of the party get in front of the world and call the President of OUR country a dam idiot and a liar and accuse him of starting a war for oil and stuff like that i'll be ''gol darned'' if i would associate myself with them. Something tells me that if every drop of oil would dry-up tomorrow George Bush would still be able to afford to send his daughters to college, so every time i hear something like that it sounds so stupid. Even if he was trying to secure oil it would be for us any way, for gods sake. This ''say anything to kick the pres., true or not'' tactic that the dems. are using is very sad, if a so-called leader make some nutty accusation he should have to be held responsible for it. Like i said, I'd be afraid to stand behind them, ''litterally''.
Im pretty new to the politics scene, ive only been paying attention to it since 9-11 but i know one darn thing, i would rather be classified as a moron than a democrat right now, and i am just talking about the things im seeing out of them these days, cause like i said i dont know much about the past as far as it all goes. I dont want to rag on Democrats personally but when the leaders of the party get in front of the world and call the President of OUR country a dam idiot and a liar and accuse him of starting a war for oil and stuff like that i'll be ''gol darned'' if i would associate myself with them. Something tells me that if every drop of oil would dry-up tomorrow George Bush would still be able to afford to send his daughters to college, so every time i hear something like that it sounds so stupid. Even if he was trying to secure oil it would be for us any way, for gods sake. This ''say anything to kick the pres., true or not'' tactic that the dems. are using is very sad, if a so-called leader make some nutty accusation he should have to be held responsible for it. Like i said, I'd be afraid to stand behind them, ''litterally''.
Harley Quinn
Moderator
Thomas Paine and Robert G. Ingorsall
We shut them out for the fear that they are right. So we will go blissfully into the never never...Reality sucks so lets pretend.
Harley
We shut them out for the fear that they are right. So we will go blissfully into the never never...Reality sucks so lets pretend.
Harley
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
Are libertarian principles congruent with the strong social conservative wing of the Republicans or the economic conservative wing emphasis on the rich guys?
That's the core issue, IMHO.
That's the core issue, IMHO.