What is a "Magazine Clip"?

Some are made to kill people very effeciently, yes, but, properly employed they can all kill effeciently. As can a pickup truck or bulldozer.
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In theory they are all dangerous, in practice the jury is still out on that debate point.

I understand your viewpoint and sense the circular argument coming, but I always feel that we are ceding the field to the antis- when we claim some guns are more intrinsically violent or evil than others.
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No, no gun is more intrinsically violent than any other. However, that doesn't mean one isn't better at killing than another. There's no argument than an AR can kill a lot more than a bolt action before reloading. That's why our military doesn't use bolt actions anymore for anything besides sniping.

Stalingrad. The Germans got so swept up in conquering a city of little strategic importance that their eventual defeat there may have well cost them the war despite making headway throughout the rest of Russia. That's what we're doing arguing about stuff like this.
 
Stalingrad. The Germans got so swept up in conquering a city of little strategic importance that their eventual defeat there may have well cost them the war despite making headway throughout the rest of Russia. That's what we're doing arguing about stuff like this.
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I was thinking the IJN off of Guadacanal, but I see your point.
 
Theohazard
Senior Member

Join Date: April 19, 2012
Posts: 201

I don't always know what someone means when they say "clip". At the shop where I work, if someone asks for a clip for an SKS, sometimes they actually mean a stripper clip and sometimes they mean a magazine for the Tapco converted versions. If someone asks for a clip for an AR-15, sometimes they actually mean "stripper clip", considering military 5.56 ammo comes that way. And we usually carry a few revolvers chambered in .45 ACP, so sometimes when people ask for a clip for a .45 they want a moon clip for a revolver.

There is a technical difference. That is not debatable. Whether the technically incorrect term "clip" should be accepted by the gun world to mean "magazine" is a different issue.

I say, "No". The biggest problem we have right now in the gun world is our country's complete and total ignorance on firearms. We have a majority of people who have been convinced that an "assault weapon" actually exists, that it's more deadly than other rifles, and that it's a danger to society and it needs to be banned. It's always amazing to me the look on people's faces when I tell them that assault rifles are already all but banned, "assault weapons" are just rifles with scary-looking features, and ALL rifles only account for 2.8% of ALL firearm deaths.

That's the problem in our county: our gun laws are made and supported by people who know absolutely nothing about firearms. Educating people on the difference between a "clip" and a "magazine" is the first step to combat that ignorance.
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Sad to note, but the general public in this country, notwithstanding the "traditions" of the U.S. is abysmally ignorant of firearms and the technology thereof, which is not to say that "rocket science" is involved, it isn't, rather it is a case of the blind leading the lame, media's endless beating of the gun control drum, there are a few exceptions to this, but media, in general feeds the public ignorance, if it doesn't actually create the public ignrance.
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0331: "Accuracy by volume."
 
I finely found that high capacity clip the gun ban people keep talking about...
 

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Hardworker:

I see your point, but I have to disagree. If the general public understood firearms a little better they wouldn't be so afraid if them. Fear of firearms is what both fuels a lot of gun violence AND gun control.

Popular culture needs to change to the point where more kids are taught that guns are tools - dangerous tools - but tools nonetheless. Instead, most kids aren't taught anything about firearm safety and responsibility and instead they learn that guns are evil, and in the process some learn that if they want to be cool and feared they need to get a gun.

I believe educating the public about firearms is the first step in removing that fear.
 
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I agree. Firearm education should be taught in schools. I wasn't debating anything about that. And I agree general public education is in order, but what we're trying to educate them on right now is vocabulary.Most people know what a semi-auto rifle is and how it's different from an auto.

The pro-gun counter to that is "Well, the AWB only bans cosmetic differences. I can get the same rifle without a pistol grip and be fine".

To which any anti with a little sense would say "You're right. The current wording of the law is toothless. Let's ban all semi-autos"

Same goes for the magazines argument

"Well it wouldn't have mattered if he had 3 30rd mags or 10 10rd mags, he'd have done the same damage. Changing mags isn't hard"

"If it's not hard then why do you fight so hard for them? Why do the military and the police use them if there's no tactical advantage to be had by their use?"




And despite the fact that they call it a clip, in their mind they are picturing a magazine. They know what it is even if they call it by the wrong name. Trying to convince them of that is a waste of time and makes us look like we're trying to drown their argument in semantics.


I'm not shooting these arguments just to be argumentative, I'm doing it because they're full of holes. Better those holes get shown here than in an actual debate.
 
Wouldn't a magazine clip be the kind of clip one uses to fill up magazines such as m16 and m14 gi magazines?

Not a clip that strips rounds directly into the gun
 
What makes you believe this?
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Because generally it's the comments from the few know-nothings that stick out and get remembered. The internet has a handful of those who genuinely don't know/understand. It's those people whose posts we read and remember while ignoring those who do get it. And because it's not rocket science.
 
Gun owners, particularly those who own semi-auto pistols, rifles or shotguns, certainly know the difference between semi-auto and auto. But your statement was "Most people", not "most gun owners" or "most TFL members." I doubt if most people in the US know the difference between semi-auto and auto firearms.
 
The pro-gun counter to that is "Well, the AWB only bans cosmetic differences. I can get the same rifle without a pistol grip and be fine".

To which any anti with a little sense would say "You're right. The current wording of the law is toothless. Let's ban all semi-autos"
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I've thought about this quite a bit. But I've decided using this argument usually helps our cause.

Many people who support a ban are people (many are gun owners) who don't want to ban "normal" guns. If they learn how stupid and pointless the AWB really was -- that "assault weapons" aren't evil death machines, they're just semi-autos with scary cosmetic features -- they might move away from supporting an idiotic ban and focus more on laws keeping guns out of the hands of criminals; something I'd be willing to compromise on if they did it Constitutionally.

And if they just decide they want to ban ALL semi-autos instead, that's an extreme position; a position far too extreme to have a chance of passing (in my opinion).


Same goes for the magazines argument

"Well it wouldn't have mattered if he had 3 30rd mags or 10 10rd mags, he'd have done the same damage. Changing mags isn't hard"

"If it's not hard then why do you fight so hard for them? Why do the military and the police use them if there's no tactical advantage to be had by their use?"
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I look at the magazine argument differently. Anti-gun people have a misconception that the faster you can fire a weapon, the more deadly it will be. They also don't understand that having a high-capacity magazine isn't much help when on the offensive, especially against unarmed people. However, a high-capacity magazine can be a big help when on the defensive, especially against armed attackers.

We need to educate people that by supporting a ban on magazines holding more than ten rounds, they support a severe restriction on a person's right to self-defense, while at the same time they won't be doing much of anything to stop a criminal who decides to go on a shooting spree.
 
I agree Theohazard, having a few 30 round mags or a bunch of 10 round mags doesn't make all too much of a difference when using them against defenseless targets, it does however make a difference when you are using them to defend yourself from an armed target. Limiting magazine capacity really only has an effect on people using them for defense, does nothing to stop crime.
 
Re the public's curious ignorance, spelled lack of information, mentioned in a couple of prior posts, the following comes to mind. Anti gun pols, anti gun operatives and "media", largely anti gun too, all share one common trait. They feed into and upon the above referenced public ignorance.
 
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