What if you only had FMJ?

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JMC,

I doubt I would qualify. I don't have the law in front of me, but I believe you have to demonstrate the "need" in front of a judge or something to that effect. Also, if you are a security guard or employed in a "high risk" or "dangerous" occupation, you might qualify. A regular schmoe like me? I don't think so. If I had any chance of getting one, I'd do it in a heartbeat.


Horny Toad




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--NRA Life Member--
 
Horney Toad,
Yes, you can buy hollow points in Jersey, but I believe you're playing with fire. The possession of hollow points is outlawed, except when engaged in activities described in NJS 2C:39-6f. These activities include target shooting & hunting. You may also transport this ammo DIRECTLY to and from the store, your home, the range, or hunting. You may STORE it at your home, but using it in self defense does not fall under the activities in NJS 2C:39-6f. Also, having a loose round in your pocket or car, when not going DIRECTLY to or from the places described above, can get you arrested for possession of illegal ammunition. The ammo I shoot at the range, is the same ammo in my home defense guns. That's why the first hand gun I will reach for is my P-97 with 230 gr ball (big bullet makes big hole).

By the way, NJ Legislators have on occasion introduced bills that would outlaw "all ammo that expands"! So far, these ridiculous bills have all been defeated. Wouldn't that even outlaw most FMJs?

Take care,
David
 
It's very rare that softpoint ammo is forbidden too, so:
*Cor-Bon BeeSafe, which is classified as a softpoint in the USA, in a .357 snubbie
( because it's too expensive to test it in a autoloader ) or Federal EFMJ if it is available to civilians.
*Quick Shok softpoints if Triton will produce them
*.357 Sig softpoints comes to my mind too-
what about Federal's 95grs. cuppoint loaded to "nice" velocities? Should work- too bad nobody produces it.

By the way, MagSafe's Fast Hardball was banned by another ridicolous copkiller bullet law- at least that's what Joe Zambone told me some months ago.
 
Just wanted to add that I don't believe in FMJ too- because I am sure the officers of the Illinois State Police can shoot as well as other police forces, nevertheless they didn't have ONE "one-shot-stop" while using 9mm FMJ and SP ammo.
Here in Austria the cops use .357 with Hirtenberger 158grs. SP- and guess what, the "king of the hill" ( .357 with 125grs. JHP ) has real stopping problems too, even with perfect shot placement of the antiterror units.
 
I feel for you folks in New Joisey. The gun thing and the women you got out there would be enough to make me move. I noticed when in Newark I looked out and saw even the Statue of Liberty has her back turned on you.
My son-in-law is from Newark. We got him past NJ customs and smuggled him into
South Dakota. He's much better now.
For the short time I was there I made sure I didn't drink the water. My rental car was another issue. I noticed it made only LEFT turns. I was warned about that. I have to go
back next month. I'll be wearing my Jane Fonda disquise. I want to feel welcomed.
Knowing your criminals can't and won't use
hollowpoints is very comforting.

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Specialists in the use and training of lethal force.
 
I don't know what some of you guys are talking about. hi cap .40s not allowed in NJ. i live in NJ and if you want to buy a hi cap gun then go ahead. you just can only own 10rd mags. i got some hi cap 9mms and i have some pre-ban hi cap mags for them. they are easy to get and i get them cheap in gun shows in PA.

I think the law is that you can own HPs but you can only use them for target shooting and not on people. i don't care about that and i buy HPs in the gun shows in PA and they are loaded in my beretta 92FS for home defense. if i have to use the gun then i will first worry about living and then about the law suit. if the HPs keep me alive then its worth it.
 
Russell, Just how many rounds do those Hi-Caps hold? Under NJS 2C:39-1y, the mere POSSESSION of a magazine with a capacity of over 15 rounds is a crime of the fourth degree, punishable by a jail sentence of up to 18 months and a fine of $7,500. It doesn't even have to fit any of your guns. Recent rulings now allow you to block Hi-Caps to comply with the 15 round limit, but if you get caught by one of those famous anti-gun NJ LEOs, it's quite possible that whatever you used to block the mag, may mysteriously disappear. Just ain't worth the hassle.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Russell92:
i don't care about that and i buy HPs in the gun shows in PA and they are loaded in my beretta 92FS for home defense. if i have to use the gun then i will first worry about living and then about the law suit. if the HPs keep me alive then its worth it.[/quote]

Russell, It's not the law suit I'd be worried about. Many Jersey Prosecutors and Judges are anti-gun crusaders. Shoot someone with hollow points, and you will very likely be charged and convicted of a crime of the 4th degree, punishable as stated above.

Personally, .45 ACP 230 gr. FMJs will do just fine, thank you. If I feel I need more, my 8 shot Persuader loaded with Federal Tactical 00 Buck is ready to perform some major ventilation.
 
Gusgus,

>>famous anti-gun NJ LEOs<<

Not ALL NJ LEO's are anti-gun. Many are very PRO gun as am I and I'm a retired LEO who owns guns, hunts at times, shoots competitively and just for recreation.

My Brother is a Chief of Police here in NJ and he is also very PRO gun as are MANY of our associates are.

We both belong to a gun club here in NJ, www.CJRPC.com , that has 1500+ members and I'm finding out more and more that that are many LEO's in the club who are ALL PRO GUN.

Many LEO's are fed up and frustrated with the politics concerning guns here in NJ but, it is a political football here and in other areas today. Hell, the likes of Clinton and Schumer are doing more to hurt everyone, not just NJ residents.

However, there are times where LEO's have no choice when the situation is set forth that a gun owner is charged with being in violation of the statutes. Sometimes there is just no other alternative. I have been involved in these situations and felt bad for the owner but did what had to be done!

Russell92, a NJ resident going to a gun show in PA and knowingly buying a magazine capable of holding more than 15 rounds and transporting it back to NJ is in violation of the statute. Pure and simple.

BTW, there are no hi-cap guns, just hi-cap magazines for those guns to accept. :)

If they do something to be caught with the mag in possession, they have to take their chances. But, they should not blame anyone, LEO's included, when/if they get caught.

Now, NJ State Police being anti-Gun? YES. Most of them are anti-anything that most enjoy. They were against the law that gave NJ retired LEO's the right to carry and did whatever possible to make the process harder than needed to obtain our permits. And, they get $50.00/year renewal fee to boot.

There is a lot wrong with NJ but NOT ALL LEO's are anti-gun.

------------------
Did you ever stop to think...
And then forget to start over again?

Jim

www.geocities.com/Heartland/Lake/3887/home.html
 
Jim, Maybe I wasn't clear, or maybe you mis read me, but I in no way intended to paint ALL NJ LEOs as anti-gun. What I said was, "if you get caught by one of those famous anti-gun NJ LEOs", the emphasis being that if he was caught by one of THE ANTI-GUN ONES. And yes, I understand that you must uphold the law, even bad ones, that's why I told him that he was taking, what I consider to be, an unacceptable risk.

I've encountered many Local NJ LEOs that are pro gun, and I've also encountered many others that felt they where on a holy crusade to rid NJ of all citizen owned firearms.

Years ago, when I turned 18, I applied for my FID and first Pistol Purchase Permit. Just happens that the local chief was a life member of the NRA. He stopped what he was doing to hold my hand through the whole processes. Even brought in an officer off of patrol to do the finger prints. Yet in the three neighboring towns, the chiefs where (and still are) extemely anti-gun, and would do anything to discourage applicants.

One thing that really burned me, was a letter I received from the Camden County FOP last November. It was from the President, a local PD Detective. He was using his office, (and the funds of members), to support the Democrats running for the NJ house. Why was this election a police issue? Because according to the Detective, the Democrats where the only ones that would stand up to the "Trenton Gun Lobby" (Trenton Gun Lobby???), and their attempts to allow "citizens" to carry canceled. This bozo actually stated in writing, that if citizens where allowed to carry, innocent NJ Police Officers would be shot down in the streets while performing routine traffic stops.

I've also seen many younger officers at the range, and they reek of "attitude". They're experts, so common gun safety rules don't apply to them. One of the worst violations I saw, was when a young officer, racked the slide on his Glock, chambering a round, and handed it muzzle first to his partner, with his finger on the trigger. If his partner had pulled the gun toward him just a little bit, he would have taken one in the gut. I have also seen numerous occasions where these young know it alls, load or unload their guns, with fingers on the triggers, and the muzzle pointed toward people. Who is training these people!?? Just try to inform them of their unsafe behavior, and you get the "who do you think you are citizen, I'm an officer of the law?" treatment. OK, I've vented enough.

I agree that there are many great, respectful, pro-gun NJ LEOs, but the new ones are getting more and more like the State Police.

Stay Safe,
David
 
For those who think FMJ is ineffective, go
get one round of cheap old Blazer 9 mm
FMJ. Have a friend pop you in the chest with it and then go about your business like nothing happened.

Most DGUs are deterrent anyway, so have a big old gun pointed at the BG does the job most of the time.

I've shot FMJ at wooden stakes in a side match. It made lots of very neat 40 cal holes in it. I think that would discourge the BG except for the gun fantasy of fending off the looney drug crazed giant biker. How many times as that happened?

How about some figures on how many criminals were attempting a crime and then shot with a FMJ of reasonable caliber and then continued the crime? This is not a one shot stop figure or some goat stat.

That's the real figure, not shooting the fruit out of jello. If the BG is shot, is your butt saved? I don't care if he or she dies or goes to goat heaven.
 
2 things

1. do all of you really mean to tell me that none of you own magazines that hold more than 10 rounds. its a national law that you can't have mags of more than 10 rounds.

2. a .45 FMJ is not even compareable to a 9mm JHP. i'd take the 9mm over it any day. the 9mm will do MUCH more damage than the .45 FMJ.
also would you rather be in jail or be dead?

i have an AR-15 also that doesn't have HPs in it and thats what i'd use for defense if i had a choice. i also plan to get a 18" barrel for my 870 and use 00 buck. those are both better than any handgun.
 
Russell,

2 comments

1) We are taking about 2 separate magazine bans here. The Brady bill, which is a Federal Law, outlawed the MANUFACTURE of any magazine with a capacity of over 10 rounds, for civilian use. You can still, in most parts of this country, legally buy and posses any Hi-Cap magazine that was made before the Brady bill ban. Hence these legal magazines are referred to as "Pre-Ban Hi-Caps". In New Jersey though, the Florio "Assault Weapon Ban" outlawed the POSSESSION of any magazine with a capacity of over 15 rounds. Just possessing a magazine with a capacity of over 15 rounds while in the State of NJ, even if it is a legal "Pre-Ban", is a violation of NJ Law. In other words, a 30 round pre-ban mag for your AR is legal in PA, but don't bring it into Jersey.

2) Many will disagree with your 2nd comment. If I am required to defend myself and my family with .45 FMJ, I will neither be dead, or in jail.

Stay Safe,
David
 
No doubt the 230grain .45. Big, ugly holes, act like 9mm holowpoints. For 9mm I think I would like to find a round (if possible) with 147gr going 1000fps.
 
Russell,

Along with what Gusgus has told you, the ONLY way a "civilian" can legally own a pre-ban hi-cap magazine in NJ is if you took advantage of the opportunity to register one of the five "assault weapons" under the provisions provided prior to the law taking effect on 05/31/91.

The AR-15 was one of the five weapons. There were no handguns included in this.

The magazines for these weapons automatically became "legal" under NJSA 2C:39-3(4)j with certain restrictions for their use when the weapon was registered.

Consequently, in NJ, if anyone is in possession of 20 or 30 rounds magazines for their AR-15 or clone, they are in violation of NJ law if the magazines were not in possession when the "assault weapon" was registered.

Now, the number of magazines for the "assault weapon" was not required at the time of registration so in theory, one could possibly obtain additional magazines and claim they had them when the registration took place.

Additionally, in NJ under NJSA 2C:58-3 any person under the age of 18 can not obtain a firearms purchaser identification card to sell, give, transfer, assign or otherwise dispose of, nor receive, purchase, or otherwise acquire an antique cannon or a rifle or shotgun...etc., etc.

If I recall correctly from another board, you made mention that you were under the age of 18. Correct? If so, you may not legally own your AR-15 in NJ.



------------------
Did you ever stop to think...
And then forget to start over again?

Jim - NRA Life Member

www.geocities.com/Heartland/Lake/3887/home.html
 
As I read this post I kept thinking "the laws in Jersey really suck".

My sympathies to those who are forced by circumstance to live there.
Those who live there by choice deserve what they get.

Writing from free Vermont..........

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"All my ammo is factory ammo"
 
>>Those who live there by choice deserve what they get<<

Thank you for the unprovoked sarcasm!

There are many more reasons one chooses to live where one does other than gun laws.

------------------
Did you ever stop to think...
And then forget to start over again?

Jim - NRA Life Member

www.geocities.com/Heartland/Lake/3887/home.html
 
Now...I don't claim to be an expert...god knows we have enough of them around here :rolleyes:...but the way I see it, in a defensive situation where you actually have to pull the trigger, my theory basically runs along the lines of continued pulling of said trigger until the BG don't move no more...period...one shot stop crapola doesn't apply...and as for caliber...get yourself something that is comfortable enough to shoot quickly and ACCURATELY...'nuff said...

G

[This message has been edited by DeakonG (edited February 17, 2000).]
 
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