What if Terrorist attack malls?

I would duck into the nearest shop (since malls seem to be loaded with them) and get into a back room, dressing room, etc. Anywhere I can fix my gun on one point and stay put till things clear up. Fight your way to it possibly, but dont pursue a running gun battle with a bunch of guys with rifles!

Unlike some apparently, I dont feel a moral obligation to put myself or my loved ones at risk to attempt saving others by attacking the gunmen. Escaping is really your only option.

IT IS important to have a "sort-of" plan for this possibility, but all in all it rates on the EXTREMELY unlikely portion of our scale.
 
If I couldn't run away for some reason, I would probably try to find someplace like a narrow corridor to a bathroom or any other kind of funnel. I would hole up there, and pray they don't find me. If they do find me, well, the hall isn't wide enough for them to spread out and I am already aiming in their direction. At that point I would be simply hoping to get as many of them as I could before they got me.
 
Glenn E. Meyer

I would suggest that for a civilian without extensive military or LEO training, you need to have some significant force on force training in this scenario.
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In this one, maybe since it's gun being used. But if bombs, I remember that older lady in Israel that blew the brains out of the suidcide bomber in the market place. She was right there, drew her gun, and blew out his brains so that he wasn't able to detonate the bomb.

I think that we need more of her around then more of those that will do nothing. She could have died if the bomber was able to detonate the bomb, but she acted first, thought about that later (I would guess).

Yet I understand the issue of family also. I will not call those that don't act a coward, as I will call those that did, a hero.

To tell you the truth, I'm tired of fighting among ourselves. The paranoid of where, when, if, why, should we, moniker that is put on others because of what they do or where they do it. I'm tired of fighting the "Us vs. Them" threads where it seems as if everyone is trying to force their beliefs on others and that this or that is right, wrong, indifferent.

I find that maybe we need more positive things, more smiles instead of frowns, more happiness instead of anger. More respect and like, less judgement and contempt.

Less intolerance and no second chances, more understanding.

I forgot who said it, posted it, but they basically said that we are all different but one thing is bringing us together, and that is the like of guns, our 2nd amendment rights, and our having and believing in both.

And this past year has shown me one thing, that life is short, there is no time for hate, anger, contempt, or intolerance.

Wayne
 
Having a handgun and facing reasonably competent individuals with fully auto weapons (or good semiauto long guns)
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Who says terrorists are "reasonably competent"? Their handler's don't spend any more time than necessary to give them the basic skills to MAYBE accomplish the act. Why should they? A new crop of "martyrs" comes along the next day. Religious fervor aside, they can't be the sharpest crayons in the box by the nature of the acts they commit.

Someone once said: "May all your enemies be on 'full-auto'"!
 
Id have to agree terrorist are competent with guns. They use gun ranges and practices just as we do. If its a more organized group that came over from the mideast they have even better training.


I personally want to take more gun classes to prepare for certain situations plus have some fun at the same time.


Its a damned if you do damned if you dont situation.
 
Ever see John Holschen's of Insights analysis or presentation on Al-Qaeda and terrorist tactics? It's been reprinted and used by OUR military.

You are silly if you underestimate your enemy and you are silly if you disregard risk analysis when deciding on an action.

The 9/11 hijackers were not incompetent and they certainly planned. They took rehearshal flights. They planned how to deal with resistance. While one can conceive of an attack on a mall by clowns, who we American gunslingers can pick off one at a time with a J frame and our superior marksmanship, might a real gun oriented attack by carried out by trained personnel who know how to act as small units and practiced against the random CHL person in ambush?

Of course, not. My point is to be educated and trained. Understand the risks - but it is more fun to posture.
 
I honestly feel we in the US have more to fear from another natural disaster like Katrina or an earthquake, or a medical disaster like the different strains of flu being discussed, than from terrorists attacks.
 
The 9/11 hijackers were not incompetent and they certainly planned. They took rehearshal flights.
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Someone did plan the whole 9/11 act, and the terrorists carried it out. But there were several times it could have been stopped if we hadn't gotten the "it can't happen here to me" attitude. I would say that the planners were 1000's of miles away. Funny how the leaders don't strap on a belt of explosives and lead the way, isn't it?

They planned how to deal with resistance.
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The plan was for an area where they knew there was very little chance for any resistance. They counted on the "sheeple" attitude that most Americans have.

I'm not underestimating their intelligence. But I've also seen the "training video's" with lot's of "spray and praise Allah". I just don't believe they are competent with firearms.

Despite what you hear on the news, our boys are taking them out by a respectful margin.
 
...opening fire with the basic guns like AK-47? They would be much more effective then a bomb...
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I disagree with this statement. If I was a terrorist intent on killing as many infidels that I can, I would use some sort of IED in as many crowded locations that I could. If I could do some government-sanctioned "red cell" exercise so that we could all see just how easy this would be for someone with the right motivation, knowledge, and imagination (Any government agency who wants me to do this in their jurisdiction can contact me offline - I'd be willing to do it for free).

First of all, a couple of men running into a mall with AK-47s are easier to spot and engage by anyone who also happen to have a gun. This is not so with IEDs. The next time you go to a mall, just take note of the many possible locations someone can put one of these devices whether on time delay or command detonation.

Second of all, running around with an AK-47 is basically a suicide mission. You might as well strap an HFEID on your chest and blow yourself up if you are going to do that. Whereas, if I were to plant these things and be long gone before they go off, I can do this as many times in as many different locations as I want.

Third of all, if you wanted to victimize as many people with rifle fire, do what thos DC criminal snipers did. It still amazes me that no terrorist organization has tried to copy what they did. They pretty much held MD, DC, & VA in panic for all those weeks and teh whole nation captivated. What more can a jihadist want? JM2CW.
 
I honestly feel we in the US have more to fear from another natural disaster like Katrina or an earthquake, or a medical disaster like the different strains of flu being discussed, than from terrorists attacks.
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While true, it does not mean taht we should discount the possibility and we must plan for it (I know I am). FWIW, this seemed to be the prevalent attitude up until 9/11/2001. JM2CW.
 
[THE MALL WASN'T IN CALIFORNIA, but was in HUNTSVILLE, ALABAMA! ]

Wow, that was a real kicker, smince. That's a few thousand miles away from the Rodney King incident! :eek:
 
The following is just my humble opinion:

1. Depending on the type of operation, terrorists may or may not be trained for combat. Bombers who have explosives strapped to them will likely not have effective training. But those who require training to ensure a completed mission will likely have solid training and very thorough planning.

Example is ofcourse the 9/11 hijackers who not only did practice runs on the very aircraft they would hijack, but also carried and used pepper spray to deter people from fighting back, and were trained in martial arts in case people did fight back.

2. As we have seen in the middle east, the favored weapon of the terrorist isn't an AK-47, it is an explosive device. Why shoot 10 people when you can blow up 45?

3. If a terrorist group does do a shooting at a mall in the USA, you can be sure that there are also explosives involved. Either set on timers for the rescue personel, or at the exits to catch the evacuating shoppers.

4. Going after multiple trained adversaries(see #1) who are armed with long arms while you are armed only with a pistol and maybe a reload or two is suicide.

5. If you do fight back and take one of the terrorists weapons, you will be easily mistaken as a terrorist as well. Responding officers or other CHL holders might very well take you out.

6. The advice to get down a narrow hallway is a good one. You have concealment (if there is a corner), and the element of suprise is back on your side if they come down the hallway. Also, often times these little hallways that lead to bathrooms also lead to small exits.

7. Avoid the main major exits. If the terrorists want to inflict more casualties, they could easily place explosives there.

I.G.B.
 
A problem that will arise

The mall scenario is bound to happen someday. What then? All the malls will install metal detectors, and people will be searched as they enter the malls. There goes ccw down the tubes, I'm afraid. I foresee the curtailment of many civil liberties in the future.
 
All the malls will install metal detectors, and people will be searched as they enter the malls.
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I'm not sure about this. Have you seen all the metal keys and other assorted items women carry in their purses? Not to mention jewelry. And big belt buckles on men. I don't think they will risk their customer base. Metal Detectors probably won't work at malls.

I went to an event at a very large auditorium recently. The tickets said all would be searched, but I didn't see anyone being searched.

My wife was afraid that the "shoplifting sensors" at the doors of the Wal-mart would detect her CCW until I explained it to her.

[THE MALL WASN'T IN CALIFORNIA, but was in HUNTSVILLE, ALABAMA! ]

Wow, that was a real kicker, smince. That's a few thousand miles away from the Rodney King incident!
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Some will use any excuse to go on a rampage. It wasn't just in Huntsville.:)
 
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Um, don't think the terr's as the Afticans called them are "going down hill" one site I read and was on the news recently showed 3000 bomb attacks around the world in the last few years.
 
Tom Clancy handled this situation in his novel "The Teeth of the Tiger".
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That was the only good part of that entire god forsakken novel... oh the depths to which Mr. Clancy has fallen....

I have already told my wife what to do in this event. Every mall I know of that we go to has a service hallway leading to the outside connected to the back of each store. That is where we are going ASAP. 95% of the "herd will head either towards the action/noise (stupid but true as behavioural scientists ahve noticed studying terrorist attacks in Isreal) or away. In either case that means a flood of people going both directions in a hallway packed with panicked people. Not the place to be. The service halls though lead out to loading bays and the like. The majority of people in those will be employees who have the sense to run, although history has shown many people will stand around trying to figure out what is going on. No matter what we want to be where the FEWEST people (targets) are. As soon as we are in the hallway I will then lead the way out. My logic is any terrorist in the main mallways will be far more focused on killing the masses than to bother with the 5% running down a service way so once we are on the way our rear is not my main concern. I would want to confirm any loading docks/exits are clear though before sending the wife and child through to safety.
 
OK, ya'll have pretty well got the mall talked about, whatsay about a pro-football, or any other very large and packed sports stadium? Movie theater? Hospital? Cruise ship? University, college, elementary schools? Be observant- yes, but out of curiosity- how many have taken a neighbor or friend to the range and encouraged CCW classes? How many have started urging folks to push and/or endorse your ideas to your elected officials for change? How many keep up to date with actual security threat info reports? Just curious. How many find it easy to sit back and throw stones and be armchair strategists and know all the answers but don't even lift a finger to help this country out? Just curious.
 
10-96: Of the places you mention, the theater is the only one (depending on jurisdiction) where it may be legal to CCW. Schools/Universities, hospitals, cruise ships, and sporting events are or may be restricted areas. Not everywhere, but many areas. One may not be able to fight back in these areas even if an opportunity presented itself.
 
Um stop reading Tom Clancy! lol
Seriously it will be quick and violent and so much blood.
Its proven in combat that those who are unproven and/or new to the violence combat brings, wuss out (seen it w/ my "Team Leader"). Plan and simple. Unless you were seasoned in Nam or Iraq or any conflict inbtwn or on the streets (as an officer), youll panic, youll shake, youll freeze up. And even those seasoned will do all of the above a lil bit.
To take action in combat you need to cross the barrier into violence..and it's a very tall, jagged barrier to cross.
Semper Fi!
-L7
 
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