I have nothing against big guns but I do have a problem with most people shooting at those ranges. You have to be really, really, good to consistently make shots that far. You need to be a really good benchrest shooter and most of those guys I know wouldn't atempt such a shot b/c they know the uncontrollable variables. Those guys use wind flags to adjust for the slightest bit of wind and change their loads with the smallest change in temp., humidity. It matters a great deal. You may get good at your shooting range where wind conditions are usually close to the same and you have done your load development and sighting and practice in sept. oct. Now what happens when you have that 700 yd. shot with a log for a rest, in Dec. with a switching 10mph. wind, at a 5degree angle? Too much risk for me.
What has happened to us???
- Thread starter jgcoastie
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I just had this same argument with someone. I'm with you. If you can't take a shot that YOU are comfortable with making it shouldn't be taken. That's disrespectful to the animal, to the hunting community and to the gun owning community. Personally I feel if you're no longer capable of stalking to a reasonable distance maybe you shouldn't be out there. Take shots you know from experience are in your range. Good for you on calling him on it.
ojibweindian
New member
The way I look at it, killing a deer/elk/whatever at 700 yards just means that I've got that much farther to drag it back to the truck 
nice post Geauxtide. How many people can do that calculation in the heat of an elk hunt. Oh yeah then they still have to have the shooting skills to make that happen on God knows whatever terrain and rest their shooting off. I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that's a small percentage of hunters.
Hunting means something different to each hunter, and hunting occurs under a wide variety of circumstances.
Personally, I think hunting is about the challenge of knowing your animal's habitats and habits, tracking sign, moving with stealth, and the physical fitness to go after your game. That usually means getting within 200 yds.
But someone else may just want to add meat to the freezer and he only get one week out of the year to go on an extended hunt. If he hasn't seen much all week and then sights a head of game at long range it may mean taking the long shot or no game meat for the year.
Yet another hunter may be out for the challenge of a trophy head or to test their shooting skills in a natural environment.
Being from the West coast I don't understand the style of hunting for white tail from a tree stand or blind over a feed lot. Easy way for overweight guys to bring home a trophy buck, but I fail to see the satisfaction of that form of hunting. But, maybe whitetail are that much different from blacktail or mule deer. I don't know.
Out here when you say you are an elk hunter other hunters immediately appreciate the fact you hump ridges and valleys that are 2,000-4,000 ft elevation gain, and that you have to carry that sucker out on your back in heavy timber over those same ridges. And elk always seem to fall waaaay down the ridge when they are shot.
I don't understand the thrill of the safari hunts you see on TV in which the PH and tracker carry shooting sticks for the guest hunter, set them up just right and tell the guest when to pull the trigger. The guest knew little about tracking, sighting or judging the game; just pulled the trigger on command. But for them that may have been the hunt of a lifetime in an exotic location, or the introduction to that area and future hunts will be more independent.
These are great discussions to have around the campfire, but I believe every hunter is entitled to hunt however they want, even if I don't see much "hunt" to their style of hunting.
Personally, I think hunting is about the challenge of knowing your animal's habitats and habits, tracking sign, moving with stealth, and the physical fitness to go after your game. That usually means getting within 200 yds.
But someone else may just want to add meat to the freezer and he only get one week out of the year to go on an extended hunt. If he hasn't seen much all week and then sights a head of game at long range it may mean taking the long shot or no game meat for the year.
Yet another hunter may be out for the challenge of a trophy head or to test their shooting skills in a natural environment.
Being from the West coast I don't understand the style of hunting for white tail from a tree stand or blind over a feed lot. Easy way for overweight guys to bring home a trophy buck, but I fail to see the satisfaction of that form of hunting. But, maybe whitetail are that much different from blacktail or mule deer. I don't know.
Out here when you say you are an elk hunter other hunters immediately appreciate the fact you hump ridges and valleys that are 2,000-4,000 ft elevation gain, and that you have to carry that sucker out on your back in heavy timber over those same ridges. And elk always seem to fall waaaay down the ridge when they are shot.
I don't understand the thrill of the safari hunts you see on TV in which the PH and tracker carry shooting sticks for the guest hunter, set them up just right and tell the guest when to pull the trigger. The guest knew little about tracking, sighting or judging the game; just pulled the trigger on command. But for them that may have been the hunt of a lifetime in an exotic location, or the introduction to that area and future hunts will be more independent.
These are great discussions to have around the campfire, but I believe every hunter is entitled to hunt however they want, even if I don't see much "hunt" to their style of hunting.
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
Well, I can answer that question.... the single biggest factor is access to sufficient land for other types of hunting. Don't think that the way you see it on TV is the way most people hunt whitetail but the largest factor to sitting in a tree and not moving is that many of us do not have enough land to move around on.
My hunting group, as an example, owns fourteen (yes, 14) acres to hunt on. We have limited access to about 100 more aces.... this for 6 or 8 guys to hunt on. Not much walking....
We do have many 10's of thousand of acres of state land on which to hunt, but there are at least two or three major problems...
1)Much of it is filled with nut jobs from major urban areas that don't know a cow from a deer (literally).
2)Some of it is hours away and we often only have an hour or two available.
3)A whole lot of it doesn't have any deer on it to speak of.
Seen That
I have on several occasions seen guys with the latest super-mag at the range. I suppose they might hit something once they get over their flinching.
Several years ago I went to sportsman show. They had guides and outfitters from most of the western states there. I chatted with some of them about the "proper" elk cartridge. They feel better when a client shows up with a .30-06 type cartridge. The gee-whiz mag guys make them nervous.
I have on several occasions seen guys with the latest super-mag at the range. I suppose they might hit something once they get over their flinching.
Several years ago I went to sportsman show. They had guides and outfitters from most of the western states there. I chatted with some of them about the "proper" elk cartridge. They feel better when a client shows up with a .30-06 type cartridge. The gee-whiz mag guys make them nervous.
Load the mag for a guy shooting one of them "uber thumper" magnums but slip a dud round with just a bullet seated over empty bass and dud primer...
Watch most of them jump out of their skin upon the innocent harmless "click" and then they blush... I consider the .30-06 my long range max round and I admit 200 yards if the outer fringe of my vision ability thus little practice so I consider 100 plenty and 150 max yards so the little light short lever gun in soft shooting .30-30 to be plenty.
Brent
Watch most of them jump out of their skin upon the innocent harmless "click" and then they blush... I consider the .30-06 my long range max round and I admit 200 yards if the outer fringe of my vision ability thus little practice so I consider 100 plenty and 150 max yards so the little light short lever gun in soft shooting .30-30 to be plenty.
Brent
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
3% of the US workforce lives on the farm or ranch. 3%. That means that 97% does not.
I don't care if you're a trucker or a stevadore, a UAW guy or a Wall Streeter: Unless you're nearly fanatical, you're not gonna have the time and opportunity to learn all about the outdoors and guns'n'critters. That in no way means you don't want to hunt or don't ever go hunting. But it means you're limited in time or money or skill or all of the above.
All that is why I don't go running my mouth against the way other people do their hunting--so long as they stay somewhere near ethical in their behavior.
How many of y'all have made dry runs of 12 to 15 miles, several days in a row, looking for a buck? All the while knowing that you have a total of sixteen days. And in country where it might well be that the only buck you'll see will maybe start running at 300 or more yards...But I'd rather do that than sit and wait--which I have also done.
When the leaves and grass are a bit wet, it's not difficult to sneak up on a buck and from ten feet, hit him in the butt with a rock. Call it "Comedy Hour". Okay, a few seconds, anyway.
But as long as folks are content with their ways, and as I said, stay ethical, the best deal for all of us is to do our thing our way and not go to bum-rapping others...
I don't care if you're a trucker or a stevadore, a UAW guy or a Wall Streeter: Unless you're nearly fanatical, you're not gonna have the time and opportunity to learn all about the outdoors and guns'n'critters. That in no way means you don't want to hunt or don't ever go hunting. But it means you're limited in time or money or skill or all of the above.
All that is why I don't go running my mouth against the way other people do their hunting--so long as they stay somewhere near ethical in their behavior.
How many of y'all have made dry runs of 12 to 15 miles, several days in a row, looking for a buck? All the while knowing that you have a total of sixteen days. And in country where it might well be that the only buck you'll see will maybe start running at 300 or more yards...But I'd rather do that than sit and wait--which I have also done.
When the leaves and grass are a bit wet, it's not difficult to sneak up on a buck and from ten feet, hit him in the butt with a rock. Call it "Comedy Hour". Okay, a few seconds, anyway.
But as long as folks are content with their ways, and as I said, stay ethical, the best deal for all of us is to do our thing our way and not go to bum-rapping others...
Art, I admit I have never suffered super long hikes in search of game, especially "trophy" specimens. Legal was all I was taught to worry about and my grand dad who taught me to deer hunt would already have spots scouted but he did go several seasons with no buck. I got lucky to get 3 in my first 3 seasons... all very low average small body 4-8 pointers.
Now I have zero desire to put forth any money in search of special game. I simply cannot afford it. I am not physically able to tote a deer too many hundred yards alone.
I admire those who are truly skilled in repeatable long range shooting. I also admire those who are willing to hike in a day for a trophy animal so long as they haul out the meat and not just the head. I don't understand the affection of spending tens of thousands to accomplish it though
Brent
Now I have zero desire to put forth any money in search of special game. I simply cannot afford it. I am not physically able to tote a deer too many hundred yards alone.
I admire those who are truly skilled in repeatable long range shooting. I also admire those who are willing to hike in a day for a trophy animal so long as they haul out the meat and not just the head. I don't understand the affection of spending tens of thousands to accomplish it though
Brent
davlandrum
New member
Brent,
I don't know about "tens of thousands" but my hunting partner and I are saving and hoarding our "pop" can refunds to go on a wilderness elk hunt in the next few years - before we get way too old to do it (argument can certainly be made we are already too old...). Even switched brands of snoose to save a little more.
We have the opportunity to hunt elk here every year, but to do a once in a lifetime (for us) pack-in bow hunt where the elk are big and not afraid to bugle....Priceless - even if we get skunked.
But I understand fully what you are saying. I would have to put our deer hunting in the "fill-the-freezer" category.
I don't know about "tens of thousands" but my hunting partner and I are saving and hoarding our "pop" can refunds to go on a wilderness elk hunt in the next few years - before we get way too old to do it (argument can certainly be made we are already too old
...). Even switched brands of snoose to save a little more.We have the opportunity to hunt elk here every year, but to do a once in a lifetime (for us) pack-in bow hunt where the elk are big and not afraid to bugle....Priceless - even if we get skunked.
But I understand fully what you are saying. I would have to put our deer hunting in the "fill-the-freezer" category.
Art, I'm all for people doing their own thing when it comes to hunting, however I've seen the transition these guys have made... They've gone from a hardline of "300yd max for hunting" and ".30/06 or .308 is all you need. To falling into the uber-magnum, "look, mine is bigger than yours", acting like a 13 year-old thinking the only way to kill an elk is with a .338 ultra-mag or .338-378. It just seems like the very people who instilled "old school" hunting ethics in me are now turning around and doing the same things that they criticized others for years ago...
I guess I just miss the good ol days...
wyobohunter
New member
This is how my dad tought me to shoot his "ought-six" when I was about 8 years old... I occasionally do this with my friends who are... less balistically inclined
sc928porsche
New member
Seems like this is always a touchy subject. Some people are simply much better at shooting than others and that is usually due to practice, practice, practice. I fire 1000's of rounds each year at the range, hunt varmits (marmots, p dogs etc.) and of course the yearly deer season. Occasionally I get in an elk hunt, moose, or bear. But those are rare occasions. I truely enjoy shooting sports and reloading.
Personally I limit my shots within 400yds for deer and elk. Even with the 300WM I would feel uncomfortable making a longer shot. I also know that there are those who are better than I am and since I do not know their limitations I refrain from making any judgement. The point being is that you must know what your limitations are and what your equipment is capable of doing comfortably. To stretch the capability of either is a mistake. You may be successful or lucky or whatever you want to call it, nonetheless it is still a mistake.
Personally I limit my shots within 400yds for deer and elk. Even with the 300WM I would feel uncomfortable making a longer shot. I also know that there are those who are better than I am and since I do not know their limitations I refrain from making any judgement. The point being is that you must know what your limitations are and what your equipment is capable of doing comfortably. To stretch the capability of either is a mistake. You may be successful or lucky or whatever you want to call it, nonetheless it is still a mistake.
Which usually isn't defined by sighting in and shooting a couple times the month before your hunting trip...
I know it's a touchy subject, but I can't see the reason behind taking 700yd shots on elk, or any game for that matter. (With the possible exception of them prairie dogs, coyote too.)
It has been years since I hunted big game with a firearm. I find almost getting a shot with a bow more thrilling than killing yet another animal with a centerfire rifle.......but I'm NOT anti-gun hunting nor am I totally against long range sniping for the few that can responsibly do it..........but it isn't really hunting IMO and , despite the fact that other people comment on my being a "good shot" and "way better than average" I do not consider myself able to responsibly shoot at game at ranges much beyond 300yards.......and Just about all of the truckloads of anmnals I've bagged with a rifle were taken inside 225 yards.
WAPITI_ASSASSIN
New member
+1 for nwpilgrim you said it.
everyone does have a style they like best or fits the situation they are in best. I to live on the west coast "oregon". And i don't see the point in having to aim ten feet above an animal iether. But if thats what they got to do back there to enjoy what they love more power to them.
i personaly hunt with open sights
everyone does have a style they like best or fits the situation they are in best. I to live on the west coast "oregon". And i don't see the point in having to aim ten feet above an animal iether. But if thats what they got to do back there to enjoy what they love more power to them.
i personaly hunt with open sights
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