What happens when you press a gun into an attacker's body?

Maybe if my life depended on it, but otherwise I'm not a big fan of firing any weapon with the barrel obstructed.
 
Charlie Askins described a belly gun as one "You press against an opponent's belly and pull the trigger." I would think you would achieve deeper penetration since the bullet is at peak velocity.
 
Clearly this causes more damage but the damage is either superficial, in that it affects the skin layers and outer tissues, or it occurs in the form of wound complications well after the event.

The value of this manouevre would be, as mentioned, guaranteeing a hit when danger is most imminent, but other than that, these ancilliary traumas would not affect the outcome of the attack.

The contact shot either stopped the attack or it didn't.
 
Might I suggest that discussion of the damage done by gas, powder, etc., is pretty academic, with the bullet being sort of "BTW". The muzzle blast from a contact wound, except in the head*, would not be as significant as the wound from the bullet, as shown by contact wounds inflicted by blank cartridges. As to the powder gas inflating the stomach, I think that effect, if any, would not last more than an instant. (Admittedly, in the cases of GSW to the stomach I have personally seen, the victim was in no condition to ask for a bi-carb.)

*In a contact wound to the head, large parts of the skull will be blown into the brain, causing lethal damage, even when a blank cartridge is used.

Jim
 
If your self defense plan is to close with your attacker for a contact shot ..... that a bad plan, on so many levels, Legal being just one of them.

"Yes, Yer Honer, he pulled a knife and said he was going to kill me ....."

" ....... so you pulled your gun and charged him, is that right?"

So many of the personal defense classes teach "Create Distance", "Get Off the X", "Be a Moving Target" ......

Hoping, or even speculating, that a contact wound would be more hurtfull to an attacker is so far down the list of legitimate self defense priorities as to be laughable ...... there are far more important things to worry about.
 
The "star pattern" is from the rifling, and yes, such burn marks are sometimes seen in contact wounds.

There is an old story that to protect yourself against an opponent armed with a "45 ottomatik" you just push on the muzzle and the gun won't fire. I am seeking information from those who used this system and thereby saved their lives.

Jim
 
The injuries from the expanding gas in a contact gunshot wound are not trivial. The projectile, of course, causes greater injury via greater penetration, but cadaver tests have shown that contact shots to the thigh with pistol cartridge BLANKS (.38 and .45 cal.) will result in cavities in the underlying muscle measuring about 3 1/2 to 4 inches in diameter. When the contact is with the chest or abdomen, blanks will cause perforations of underlying organs such as lung, liver, bowel, etc. These types of injuries are additive to the effect of a projectile with gunshot contact wounds, and cause very significant difficulties in attempts at surgical treatment. We're not talking about greater skin injuries here. If you doubt, check it out in any textbook of forensic pathology.
 
If your self defense plan is to close with your attacker for a contact shot ..... that a bad plan, on so many levels, Legal being just one of them.

"Yes, Yer Honer, he pulled a knife and said he was going to kill me ....."

" ....... so you pulled your gun and charged him, is that right?"

So many of the personal defense classes teach "Create Distance", "Get Off the X", "Be a Moving Target" ......

Hoping, or even speculating, that a contact wound would be more hurtfull to an attacker is so far down the list of legitimate self defense priorities as to be laughable ...... there are far more important things to worry about.
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Nobody has said that contact shots should pursued as your "go to" self defense plan, but you're being ignorant if you don't think that a situation could ever arise where a contact shot may be the only viable option.

I retired from LE last year and one of the things we'd trained on for the last few years was contact shots with our duty weapons - holding the slide in battery while pressing the gun into the target, firing, then racking the slide as we pulled away and following up with a double tap.

Nobody wants to be in a position where they are being overwhelmed in a physical assault but it happens. Your only option may be to shove your gun into an attacker and shoot to get them off you. Nothing wrong with a discussion about the hows and whys of a contact shot or training for the possibility.
 
Also, if employed as a tactic, I can but wonder about its use against a person with a black belt in one of the martial arts.
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It seems we have two slightly different things being talked about here, under the term "tactic".

If you are talking about closing with an attacker, in order to obtain muzzle contact, that I would consider a particularly stupid idea.

What I was talking about was when the attacker has already closed with you, is in physical contact with you, and doing mayhem. AT THAT POINT, pushing the muzzle against them would seem advisable to me. NO martial artist, no matter what belt would be able to dodge that bullet. or at least so I believe at this time.
:rolleyes:

The powder gasses from a contact wound DO increase the amount of damage. How much varies, and whether or not it actually adds anything to stopping power is not quantifiable as far as I know.
 
"Also, if employed as a tactic, I can but wonder about its use against a person with a black belt in one of the martial arts."

What, black belts don't bleed?
 
He's so tough that bullets bleed when they hit him.
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Superman will let bullets bounce off his chest, but ducks when you throw a gun at him.

Maybe we should just start throwing guns?

Evidently that does more damage
 
I think that many people have a preconceived notion of what a fight will be like.
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Andrew, you nailed it with this statement. It's pretty obvious that most folks have learned most of their self defense skills from watching their favorite TV hero. These skills go out the window pretty quick in an actual tussle.

Fights happen -- FAST!! It is indeed a fortunate person who has the time, instinct, and skills to successfully defend themselves from a premeditated or spontaneous attack. jd
 
nice video..

though I have a question.. I have a feeling if you fired from a little distance (2-3 inches), the bullet would have exited the ballisted gel and made it into the first jug.. I dont know if the science ads up.. will certainly try...
 
Possible. There's not likely to be much difference, though. These results are consistent with my earlier, more conventional testing of the same load.
 
Ballistic gel is not a great model of human flesh. It is consistent and as such is used as a standard. What happens in ballistic gel is not what happens in your body.
I think this is one case where a hog would prove a better test subject.


Have you ever seen an injury resulting from a 135 PSI shop compressor being applied to an open wound? Its ugly. My understanding is it is also EXTREMELY painful.
Even a 38 special would be more pressure, although a low volume.
 
The idea of a handgun is so you can deal with a threat from a distance. If you are getting that close you might as well have a club or a knife etc. Getting that close is a bad idea as you are giving them the opportunity to take the firearm of you, plus as already posted it can cause semi / auto handguns to malfunction, so its a bad idea for all sorts of reasons, I would see it as irrelevant if it does more damage or not.
 
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